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Suitcase With $134 Billion Puts Dollar on Edge

KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

Interesting. This happened a few days ago and we're not hearing much about it.
Suitcase With $134 Billion Puts Dollar on Edge

[snip]

"On his blog, the Market Ticker, Karl Denninger wonders if the Treasury “has been surreptitiously issuing bonds to, say, Japan, as a means of financing deficits that someone didn’t want reported over the last, oh, say 10 or 20 years.” Adds Denninger: “Let’s hope we get those answers, and this isn’t one of those ‘funny things’ that just disappears into the night.”

This is still a story with far more questions than answers. It’s odd, though, that it’s not garnering more media attention. Interest is likely to grow. The last thing Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke need right now is tens of billions more of U.S. bonds -- or even high-quality fake ones -- suddenly popping up around the globe."

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,232 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An agent of the U.S. Treasury has examined them and declared them to be counterfeits.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Declaring the bonds as fakes (even if real) would be the best way out for all parties, including the US govt. If the bonds were real, the last thing people need to know is that surrepticious selling of Treasuries has been going on (for how long? by whom?). That would not help the current tensions in the bond markets where the Treasury is desperately trying to keep interest rates under wraps. Better that they be "fakes" and for the US to slap the wrist in secret of whichever nation was trying to dump them (ie hey guy, please don't do that again! Now get back into the next TBond auction and buy, buy, buy!).

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aren't virtually all US Treasury debt obligations simply electronic entries at this point? What did these guys think they were carrying?
    Higashiyama
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think 40 or 50 years ago they did issue (paper) bonds in the amounts supposedly being smuggled. Since the USA didnt issue anything longer than 30 years, these bonds would have matured and been worthless now. So they are either old worthless bonds or fakes. This whole story(situation) may even have been created by a very large fund with a short position in the dollar looking to make a quick score.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,232 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Over the years we have seen here in Chicago two scams involving fake U.S. securities with very large denominations on them. Both came out of the Philippines.

    They were variations on the standard Nigerian scheme. A party needed some help in cashing them, and offered the helper 20% of the face value in exchange for some front money to help with expenses. The helper gets the fake bonds, and the party of the first part splits with the front money.

    No conspiracy here, folks! Move along! Move along!!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    Remember the original movie "Die Hard" with Bruce Willis? The German terrorists were trying to gain access to the vault that contained "bearer bonds", the same bonds these guys were smuggling. They said they were as good as cash. I believe you can still get the actual bond rather than an electronic issue.
  • dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    Wiki of bearer bond

    Wikipedia says bearer bonds issued by US have all matured and no longer valid. So these had to be fake then, no?
  • cinman14cinman14 Posts: 2,489


    << <i>Wiki of bearer bond

    Wikipedia says bearer bonds issued by US have all matured and no longer valid. So these had to be fake then, no? >>



    They're still valid.. They just stopped paying interest....



    << <i>In the United States all the bearer bonds issued by the U.S. Treasury have matured. They no longer pay interest to the holders. As of May 2009, the approximate amount outstanding is $100 million.[2] >>

  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

    Mafia blamed for $134bn fake Treasury bills

    [snip]

    "Whether the men are really Japanese, as their passports declare, is unclear but Italian and US secret services working together soon concluded that the bills and accompanying bank documents were most probably counterfeit, the latest handiwork of the Italian Mafia."
  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

    ::: Breathing a big sigh of relief :::

    CNBC just confirmed they are fakes. It was briefly noted it might not be a good thing to have high quality fake U.S. Bonds floating around but, not to worry, all will be well. End of story. Move along. Nothing to see here, other than yet another conspiracy theory image
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CNBC just confirmed they are fakes.

    Does anyone know what a $500,000,000 bearer bond is supposed to look like, so how in the world would a counterfeiter get his hand on an authentic one in order to duplicate it?

    Nobody thinks that Japan or China are trying to unload their US paper before it is entirely trashed? Uh, really?
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Glenn Beck show just had some details on these.

    When it first came out, it was confirmed that they were fakes, based on an internet picture of the bonds on the internet.

    Then a copy was faxed to US officials, who then said the bonds were fake.

    Supposedly, they had some series date on them, but also had a picture of the space shuttle. They say the two were not supposed to be found together in that combination so was a fake.

    Supposedly in the past, this type of fake bond was found to have come out of North Korea. So they are suspect again.... but one has to wonder, if they made some error on the bonds in the past, why they would make more with the same mistake.....

    There still does not seem to be much info on the individuals who were carrying them. No nationality seems to be apparent...
    ----- kj
  • rpwrpw Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Here's a bearer bond that Heritage sold several years ago. None issued since mid-80s, they were called in 2002 and no longer earn interest and are redeemable until 2047 or thereabouts.
    image
    imageimage Small Size National Bank Note Type Set $5-$100
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rpw, thanks for the post. So that's what a Bearer Bond looks like, with its coupons and everything. Cool-looking paper.image

    Those coupons must be redeemable every 6 months. Heh, must be nice!
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turner Network article on $134 B in bonds

    While known for being sensationalistic with questionable accuracy, I'd probably still believe this guy's account before the govt's of Italy, USA, Japan, and certainly not CNBC. At least it's more entertaining.

    Supposedly these are pics of the bonds. My computer graphics are too dark to read anything. Can anyone else see what dates these are, and what other features are on them?

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,232 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The so-called one billion dollar bond has a picture of a series 1934-A $1000 bill photoshopped up to a billion.
    Looks like some of the Philippine work I mentioned earlier.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The bonds are either fake or have matured. Why do people constantly seek some sort of conspiracy? There are alot of bright minds in these threads and I hate to see them destroyed by fancy.

    Rant over.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why do people constantly seek some sort of conspiracy?

    Could it be because of the actions of the financial elite that got our system to where it is today via a series of moves that have taken decades to accomplish? This was just by luck? Even FDR said that all major financial moves were always intended. The moves of the past 20 years by the financial elite especially speaks to the above.

    From the creation of the FED, to juiced govt stats, eliminating M3, understating M1 relative to M0, going pure fiat, leveraging up the system with otc derivatives, dark pools, hedge funds, manipulated ETF's, marked to myth accounting, regulators turning a blind eye even when evidence is placed under their noses, revolving doors between congress, banks, lobbyists and regulatory bodies, removing laws that once protected our banks from doing dumb stuff, central bank's double counting of their gold and selling it off over the past decade under the guise of a "non-performing" asset (lol), etc. The list is much longer but you get the drift. At this point, I'd rather assume the worst than give any benefit of a doubt to words being spoken by those in power or in prime media. Sorry, they have to earn back trust at this point. It will take a long, long time.

    Schoon's article of today talks about these very same points........

    Schoon on the big picture

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the big picture is that every lives a better life today than they did 20, 50, 100 years ago.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we've had this discussion before about when was the best quality of life and the opinons were all over the map. I for one feel the better quality of life was more than 20 yrs ago. I could argue for the 50's, 60's, or 80's and 90's. My own choice would probably be the 60's. It's not about gadgets, plasma TV's, huge SUV's or Hummers, and McMansions with 0-5% down. Rather it's about the requirement for 2 breadwinners and the need for daycare to raise ones kids, the quality and cost of education, the cost of healthcare as a % of earnings, the quantity of and percentage of tax rates, leisure time, average # of working hours, % of pay that is taken home, how to save for retirement where the tried and true option for 25 years has been blown out of the water in the past 2 years, can most people today even afford to ever retire, keeping in touch with family and neighbors, etc. etc.

    The nation has changed drastically and one cannot measure quality by gross earnings, the number of one's possessions, or being connected 24/7 via cell phones, Ipods, Twitters, and the internet. I think we can start safely saying that our lives WERE generally better as the current financial plays out over years.

    But I'm a glass "half-full" type of guy......that is, the glass is still (at least) half-full of otc derivatives. image

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

    It looks like Schoon has no love for Goldman Sachs image
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Im not a gadget guy either, heck I drive a 12 yr old Jeep. But the availability of services and resources that I use are much more prevalent today than 20 years. And the accessibility of those resources and services is beyond compare.

    There are many reasons why some (most) households need 2 breadwinners, but that is probably a discussion for another time.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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