How do you think this Koufax Rookie from Great Lakes Auction House will grade

hofautos · June 16, 2009 2:47PM

I haven't bought an ungraded vintage card in AGES, but thought I wouild try my luck.
I figure if 6.5 or better I do good
6 par
5 or less not so good

I also figure since they guarantee money back refund within 7 days, I cant do too bad, as I can always return if not happy once i get a good scan.

koufax rookie

.

nam812 · June 16, 2009 2:57PM

"We guarantee this card is AUTHENTIC and UNTRIMMED or your money back"

What they don't guarantee is that it was most likely in a PSA 4 holder (before they cracked it out to sell raw) because of a hidden flaw.

divecchia · June 16, 2009 3:01PM

<< What they don't guarantee is that it was most likely in a PSA 4 holder (before they cracked it out to sell raw) because of a hidden flaw. >>

I'm thinking the same thing...Donato

hofautos · June 16, 2009 3:01PM

<< "We guarantee this card is AUTHENTIC and UNTRIMMED or your money back"

What they don't guarantee is that it was most likely in a PSA 4 holder (before they cracked it out to sell raw) because of a hidden flaw. >>

I considered that possibility, but the fact that they had like 50+ ungraded cards, many which are low value cards, kind of leads me to believe that they got a collection in from someone. What kind of "hidden flaws" should I look for once I recieve it, since I can return it for full refund.. I will definetely make HUGE scans and check for surface flaws. The seller "said" that there weren't any noticable surface flaws, and the only thing he see on it is a "dimple" in the white border below the B in brooklyn.

PoppaJ · June 16, 2009 3:06PM

Looks like at least a nice 6; maybe a 7 with a little luck.

Just be sure to get the ol' magnifying glass out before sending it off for grading.

Nick (Nam812) makes a good a point .... get ready to use that 7-day return policy if needed!

Congrats if all goes well!

PoppaJ

nam812 · June 16, 2009 3:08PM

<< I considered that possibility, but the fact that they had like 50+ ungraded cards, many which are low value cards, kind of leads me to believe that they got a collection in from someone........... >>

Hold on to that belief while you do a quick thread search of that's seller's name here at CU. You'll find threads like this one

hofautos · June 16, 2009 3:09PM

<< Looks like at least a nice 6; maybe a 7 with a little luck.

Just be sure to get the ol' magnifying glass out before sending it off for grading.

Nick (Nam812) makes a good a point .... just be sure to use that 7-day return policy if needed!

Congrats if all goes well!

PoppaJ

>>

Seller also has like 5000FB and 100% positive.
I will definetely use the 7 day return policy, and if I see anything possibly give him the option to refund my a portion, if I think it will grade low, instead of sending it back to him for a full refund. I already contemplated that option before bidding. The only thing I could think of that could bite me, is if there really is some type of flaw that is not noticable, but I am not aware of any such defect that could not be seen between a large scan and a angled surface check under good lighting and magnification.

nam812 · June 16, 2009 3:11PM

Change your thread title to:

How do you think this Koufax Rookie from Great Lakes Auction House will grade?

And I think you will get lots more people weighing in on your purchase.

hofautos · June 16, 2009 3:13PM

<< You'll find threads like this one >>

In the thread you provided, there was lots of speculation, but ONLY one comment that was fact...

"That is a bit high for raw. I will say that I bought a '73 Clemente from him listed as "mint" and it did indeed grade out at a PSA 9. "

hofautos · June 16, 2009 3:17PM

<< Change your thread title to:

How do you think this Koufax Rookie from Great Lakes Auction House will grade?

And I think you will get lots more people weighing in on your purchase. >>

Done. I am a little leary, and why I came here to hear from the crowds.
I still think the worst that can happen is that I get the card and find a flaw and ask him to either refund me partially, or ship back for full refund.
It is a nice looking card, provided I dont see any flaws...even not a TERRIBLE price for "VERY NICE 6", and I find if it is not altered, that it would be difficult to be less than a solid 6.

akuracy503 · June 16, 2009 3:19PM

Nam812 how long did it take you to build that T218 Champions set?

I'm looking at your link for the first time and that is quite the rare pop set.

Very nice.

relaxed · June 16, 2009 3:32PM

It does seem like a nice card from the scan. But who knows until you get the card. According to the VCP average prices on a Koufax for a PSA 6 is around $493, for a PSA 6.5 its $660, and a PSA 7 average is $908. I have a couple graded Koufax's myself and centering is tough on this card and yours seems nicely centered, good luck.

nam812 · June 16, 2009 3:33PM

<< Nam812 how long did it take you to build that T218 Champions set?

I'm looking at your link for the first time and that is quite the rare pop set.

Very nice. >>

It took me just under 9 months, and thanks for the compliment.

hofautos · June 16, 2009 3:42PM

<< It does seem like a nice card from the scan. But who knows until you get the card. According to the VCP average prices on a Koufax for a PSA 6 is around $493, for a PSA 6.5 its $660, and a PSA 7 average is $908. I have a couple graded Koufax's myself and centering is tough on this card and yours seems nicely centered, good luck. >>

Yes, centering very tough, plus no print marks, also tough. A very nice looking card...i would be content with a 6..although much happier with 7 or 7.5.
I would think if it wouldn't at least get a 6, that the flaws would be noticable.

nam812 · June 16, 2009 3:47PM

<< .........I would think if it wouldn't at least get a 6, that the flaws would be noticable. >>

Not everything is always as it seems.

hofautos · June 16, 2009 3:57PM

<< 

<< .........I would think if it wouldn't at least get a 6, that the flaws would be noticable. >>

Not everything is always as it seems.

>>

Back?
how about in hand? Is that yours or just a scan from ebay?
I would bet in hand the defects of that card would be obvious. I haven't ever seen a card in hand that looked a lot better than the grade, except twice, and both times I resubmitted and got a higher grade.

I do hear what you are saying though, and I respect your knowledge. Is there anything that I should look for when I recieve the card besides the obvious that could really hurt a card's grade?

storm888 · June 16, 2009 4:13PM

"...I haven't ever seen a card in hand that looked a lot better than the grade, except twice, and both times I resubmitted and got a higher grade. .."

//////////////////////////////////////

I need to hire you to pre-grade any cards I want to submit.

Half of my 10s live in 5 slabs.

Invisible micro-wrinkles can "really hurt a card's grade."

........

Mr greatlakes sold some VERY nice looking cards in the past week.

hofautos · June 16, 2009 4:50PM

<< "...I haven't ever seen a card in hand that looked a lot better than the grade, except twice, and both times I resubmitted and got a higher grade. .."

//////////////////////////////////////

I need to hire you to pre-grade any cards I want to submit.

Half of my 10s live in 5 slabs.

Invisible micro-wrinkles can "really hurt a card's grade."

........

Mr greatlakes sold some VERY nice looking cards in the past week. >>

Actually I thought of one exception.
I still think this should grade a psa 6, but psa would not

I changed this from a bvg 7 to a psa 8

and i changed this from a psa 2 to a bvg 3

Those were my only 3 attempts

WinPitcher · June 16, 2009 9:05PM

If it would have graded hi, they would have graded it.

It was probably once in a slab, but looked better raw.

Dealers like this do not like to leave money on the table.

Steve

Bosox1976 · June 16, 2009 10:00PM

PSA 5.

chaz

fiveniner · June 16, 2009 10:16PM

Be very careful I too was just a victim of a bum deal buying a 1953 Bowman Mantle Graded strong excellent no creases beautiful centring just soft corners looked great too.What I got was a Mantle with 3 heavy creases and worn corners.Seller is now suspended and I should be
refunded full price through Pay Pal soon.NO more raw high price vintage for me!!!

Tony

hofautos · June 17, 2009 12:00AM

<< Be very careful I too was just a victim of a bum deal buying a 1953 Bowman Mantle Graded strong excellent no creases beautiful centring just soft corners looked great too.What I got was a Mantle with 3 heavy creases and worn corners.Seller is now suspended and I should be
refunded full price through Pay Pal soon.NO more raw high price vintage for me!!!

Tony >>

Different seller thought, right?
Once you got the card, you could see the heavy creases, right?
Did he offer full refund if not satisifed within 7 days?

I think that is the difference.
I was burned back in year one of card collecting, and swore I would only buy slabbed ever since...this is my first break from that thought processing, and I may return to it (grin).

RonBurgundy · June 17, 2009 12:10AM

I've bought 2 cards from Great Lakes (though none in the last 3 years). One was a '57 Ted Williams that came back a 7, the other was a card I don't remember but it was short and I sent it back for a refund, which they issued without a problem.

chaz43 · June 17, 2009 12:17AM

<< PSA 5.

chaz >>

This is true. Be careful, I have brought from them before and had to send back, then they blocked me. Crappy far away scans done so you can't really inspect the card. chaz

chaz43 · June 17, 2009 12:27AM

<< "We guarantee this card is AUTHENTIC and UNTRIMMED or your money back"

What they don't guarantee is that it was most likely in a PSA 4 holder (before they cracked it out to sell raw) because of a hidden flaw. >>

Excellent points Nam. chaz

stevek · June 17, 2009 1:26AM

<< If it would have graded hi, they would have graded it.

It was probably once in a slab, but looked better raw.

Dealers like this do not like to leave money on the table.

Steve >>

Bingo

RipublicaninMass · June 17, 2009 2:38AM

<< 

<< "We guarantee this card is AUTHENTIC and UNTRIMMED or your money back"

What they don't guarantee is that it was most likely in a PSA 4 holder (before they cracked it out to sell raw) because of a hidden flaw. >>

Excellent points Nam. chaz >>

Seller is notorious for this

HighChopper · June 17, 2009 9:57AM

This seller's butt sucks buttermilk.

nam812 · July 5, 2009 3:43AM

Any update for this thread yet?

Stone193 · July 5, 2009 4:30AM

<< OUTSTANDING and has NEAR-PERFECT centering. >>

Don't know the seller and could be really good.

But, the centering right to left rules out near-perfect IMO.

If it's that good? Why not grade it out?

mike

SoFLPhillyFan · July 5, 2009 4:57AM

I was burned by them once and will never buy again from them. Caution to the buyer.

We found once the suspected buying ID for these guys. It should be in another thread.

Definitely a buy graded and crack out scheme with sharp pics but not close enough to see some flaws. Great description that will mention everything except the flaw that keeps it from getting the 7, 8, or 9 that you may think it deserves from the pics.

leadoff4 · July 5, 2009 5:16AM

They used to buy under the eBay id crab-chucks but apparently not anymore. A year or two ago you could check the completed auctions won by crab-chucks which were a lot of graded cards. Then, they miraculously appeared for sale as raw cards under seller great_lakes_auction_house. A lot of them were PSA 5s and 6s. When sold they never directly stated NM or NM/MT but for sure implied that.

WinPitcher · July 5, 2009 8:02AM

Any new info regarding this card?

Steve

nam812 · July 11, 2009 3:34PM

There must be an update to this thread by now. How did the raw Koufax rookie work out?

Ahmanfan · July 11, 2009 5:15PM

<< 

Once you got the card, you could see the heavy creases, right?

>>

I'm sure they weren't of the invisible variety! ;-)

jswieton · July 11, 2009 5:26PM

In a situation like this, on a high $ raw card and if there are no noticeable defects in the card when you recieve it. I would spend the $35 and immediately send it to PSA for the 5 day grading Just to be sure that it has not been altered or doctored in any way. I am sure if you wait to long they will not return the card. I hate to say this but there is probably a reason this card is not in a holder.

WinPitcher · July 12, 2009 1:39AM

The silence is very telling.

Steve

WinPitcher · July 25, 2009 11:29AM

And the silence continues.

Steve

RonBurgundy · July 25, 2009 11:41AM

"They used to buy under the eBay id crab-chucks but apparently not anymore. A year or two ago you could check the completed auctions won by crab-chucks which were a lot of graded cards. Then, they miraculously appeared for sale as raw cards under seller great_lakes_auction_house. A lot of them were PSA 5s and 6s. When sold they never directly stated NM or NM/MT but for sure implied that."

Sounds similar to what Polo Grounds does, except they buy PSA 7's, crack them, and sell them raw at shows at 7.5 to 8 prices. In their defense some of the 7's they buy may belong in 8 holders.

lbcoach20 · July 25, 2009 12:56PM

I've bought from Polo Grounds quite a bit. I only bought cards they listed as MINT. I graded the bigger ones and most got 8's with a few 7's thrown in. Dealers definitely crack and sell as higher graded, but I knew they were going to atleast grade 7/8ish. Ones I didn't like they quickly refunded, so I guess their return policy was good.

IchiroDeported · July 25, 2009 1:09PM

i too was hoping for an update....

bobbyw8469 · July 25, 2009 10:00PM

Great Lakes has a GREAT business model! Cracking out PSA 5's & 6's and touting them as high grade cards. No scanner. I wish I had the cahoonies to do that! knowing my luck, I will crack them out, and selling them raw would bring PSA 3-4 prices (as they should, since the bidder is assuming all the risk)....

WinPitcher · July 26, 2009 8:45AM

I take it that it did not work out that well.

Steve

JackWESQ · July 26, 2009 10:05AM

<< I take it that it did not work out that well. >>

Hofautos started this thread back on June 16, 2009. It's only been a month and ten (10) days. We should give him more time as I suspect it will take, what, perhaps two, three, four or even five crack and resubmits before he gets that PSA 6 or PSA 6.5 ... if ever.

/s/ JackWESQ

IchiroDeported · August 1, 2009 12:55AM

anxiously waiting for an update.

1960toppsguy · August 1, 2009 1:01AM

75-1 odds that you have been had, the person you are dealing with is a serious pro.

itzagoner · August 1, 2009 1:04AM

<< This seller's butt sucks buttermilk. >>

WinPitcher · August 1, 2009 1:05AM

If this card graded a 7 or better we all would have heard about that.

The see I told ya so's would have been posted a few times.

No reason for the OP to feel bad. IMO it was a decent gamble.

But please a little followup would have been nice, if only to help the next

unsuspecting bidder.

Steve

bobbyw8469 · August 1, 2009 2:30AM

No follow up needed...everyone here knows what Great Lakes business model is......Crack out PSA 5's and 6's to get raw 7-8 prices....

2dueces · August 1, 2009 6:52AM

Well as we all know looks can be deceiving. I assure you that none of the cards below have any paper loss or creases. Well, no crease that could be detected by the submitter. The 59's I bought slabbed and the 66 I pulled from a pack in 66. I gave it the once over and submitted it with some other 66's that I cherry picked from my childhood set. My grades ranged from 7-9 with one 6 and this beautiful 3. I subbed the other checklist figuring it would pull a 6 at best and it came back a 7. The scan makes the corners of the 59's look soft, but in person they are sharp as 9's. Go figure. BTW, where is the original poster and what happened to his card?

nam812 · August 8, 2009 10:32PM

Surely the OP must have results to share by now.

How do you think this Koufax Rookie from Great Lakes Auction House will grade

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