Would you buy raw from Klinger83?

SidePocket · May 31, 2009 3:32AM

I'm looking at some raw cards he's selling, the scans look good, but there's always the question "why weren't these graded?" Anyone bought raw from him? What were the results?

Thanks for any info!

Bosox1976 · May 31, 2009 3:37AM

Mixed on 62's. Some nice, a few were recolored.

daddymc · May 31, 2009 3:39AM

I've bought some '75 Topps commons from him in the past that I think were listed as NM-MT and were actually NM, but I think that's kind of expected on eBay. In any case, they were nice upgrades for the raw set I have. I've never graded anything that I purchased from him though.

SDavid · May 31, 2009 3:52AM

In most cases, subtract a grade.

GemMt10luvr · May 31, 2009 3:59AM

Absolutely .. NOT!!!!

OAKESY25 · May 31, 2009 4:02AM

GemMt10luvr

details please

SidePocket · May 31, 2009 4:05AM

Yes, Gem, what's the story?

edmundfitzgerald · May 31, 2009 4:10AM

I think if this guy is a Gem Mint 10 lover, then he probably has high standards. Just a guess.

TheVon · May 31, 2009 4:34AM

He's actually been one of the few raw sellers that I've had success with. I bought 75 Minis from him that he had listed asn NM-MT and most of them came back from PSA as 8s.

Mintacular · May 31, 2009 4:34AM

I have bought from him several times, and here are my thoughts:

1) His condition assessment's are mostly accurate, but he doesn't "understate" either. If he calls a card a "6" you will probably get a "6" in a few cases a high 5.
2) He has a huge following and you will have to pay a pretty penny as he gets tons of bidders on all his auctions
3) I don't think he is the type of guy that is into grading so just because he doesn't have a card graded doesn't necessarily mean there is something wrong with it
4) He caters to raw set builders. I you are a PSA guy who is hoping to pick land some vintage PSA 8's and better, I don't know that Klinger is the guy for you.

JMO...

DALEMURPHY03 · May 31, 2009 5:10AM

call the feds ASAP

Nathaniel1960 · May 31, 2009 5:43AM

I have to admit, Dale's comment was funny there. He's still insane though. And I suspect he's not the REAL Dale Murphy either.

ymarea · May 31, 2009 5:52AM

I've bought hundreds of raw cards from Jeff (klinger83) and continue to buy from him. I've received the occassional klunker, but the vast majority of his cards have been very nice.

This is the second such thread that I can recall regarding this seller. Like I said in the previous thread, just examine the scans very closely before bidding. Save them to your computer, blow 'em up, and have a good look. If you have the slightest doubt about a card after doing this, pass on it. Jeff provides good scans so you shouldn't be in for many unpleasant surprises if you study them carefully.

DALEMURPHY03 · May 31, 2009 6:12AM

<< I've bought hundreds of raw cards from Jeff (klinger83) and continue to buy from him. I've received the occassional klunker, but the vast majority of his cards have been very nice.

. >>

pass those clunkers onto to the summerof68 to investigate

DavidPuddy · May 31, 2009 6:25AM

<< 

<< I've bought hundreds of raw cards from Jeff (klinger83) and continue to buy from him. I've received the occassional klunker, but the vast majority of his cards have been very nice.

. >>

pass those clunkers onto to the summerof68 to investigate >>

Someone a little bitter?

DALEMURPHY03 · May 31, 2009 6:34AM

<< 

<< 

<< I've bought hundreds of raw cards from Jeff (klinger83) and continue to buy from him. I've received the occassional klunker, but the vast majority of his cards have been very nice.

. >>

pass those clunkers onto to the summerof68 to investigate >>

Someone a little bitter? >>

how am i bitter? cause you clowns assume since I find the summerof68's "CSI" investigation to be absolutely comical that I am somehw a pack resealer haha ok

OAKESY25 · May 31, 2009 6:35AM

because you are attacking him on threads that have nothing to do with the ones he started

onebamafan · May 31, 2009 7:35AM

If its the guy from Indiana, i would pass. He overgrades cards that he doesn't tell you unseen flaws. That was my experience. If it's not that Klinger , disregard.

ahkmedbinladen · May 31, 2009 7:53AM

One just needs to look at his current auctions to answer that question...Plenty of stuff graded by him. 1972 LLoyd Allen Psa 9 ...Just one of 49 with only one better....blah blah blah. Tied for 59th toughest card in the set.Blah blah blah...reminds me of a Scott Susor auction. Just the description,not the cards themselves. Seriously though,my experinces in the past with regards to having luck grading the raw cards were good but not recently. My opinion is Mr Klinger is grading the nice ones himself with heavy attention to the pop reports. But if a buyer is strictly looking for a nice card without the intentions of it grading it then dont hestitate to buy from Klinger.

BurritoJimmy · May 31, 2009 8:46AM

LOL that dude trims his stuff and sells crapola. Worse than Triple Play Trimmage.

GemMt10luvr · May 31, 2009 9:37AM

He's usually pretty close on his grading, only off by a grade or 3

corvette1340 · May 31, 2009 9:57AM

I've bought a ton of raw vintage from Klinger and most of it has been spot on the grade he advertised for the ones I had graded. None of them ever came backed trimmed or colored.

rbdjr1 · May 31, 2009 10:07AM

<< 

<< I've bought hundreds of raw cards from Jeff (klinger83) and continue to buy from him. I've received the occasional klunker, but the vast majority of his cards have been very nice.

. >>

pass those clunkers onto to the summerof68 to investigate >>

You are the one who needs to be investigated!

dale murphy bubble boy! (you Hall of Fame want-a-be!)

rd

You suddenly pop-up on the CU boards with "troll-like bashing digs" on a bunch of different threads! Why? Did someone here "pour salt on your sore dinghy"? Or are you just another typical plain-olde basher-troll that seems to pop up around here lately? Lesser of two evils? Or what's your alt ID? Or all of the above?

TomGshotput · May 31, 2009 10:35AM

<< He's usually pretty close on his grading, only off by a grade or 3 >>

When every seller on ebay uses the same scale, is it really off?

Clemaz · May 31, 2009 11:34AM

I have bought off Klinger and have always been satisfied. I do thing his grades are about a point high.

lbcoach20 · May 31, 2009 12:46PM

I've bought from him a few times and the cards were pretty close to his grading standards. Always a +/- 1 either way. But all in all pretty satisfied.

Morgoth · May 31, 2009 12:55PM

Uh oh someone mentioned he who should not be named in a thread dealing with altered or overgraded cards. Look for a quick hook here.

hammered · May 31, 2009 1:03PM

I have bought from Klinger many times but never for grading material - mostly for set fillers in NM condition. I don't think he grades that much because he does so well with his set breaks. Someone mentioned his huge following, which is correct - and that usually drives prices on many of his auctions higher than they deserve to go.

minnesotahusker · May 31, 2009 4:31PM

<< I've bought hundreds of raw cards from Jeff (klinger83) and continue to buy from him. I've received the occassional klunker, but the vast majority of his cards have been very nice.

This is the second such thread that I can recall regarding this seller. Like I said in the previous thread, just examine the scans very closely before bidding. Save them to your computer, blow 'em up, and have a good look. If you have the slightest doubt about a card after doing this, pass on it. Jeff provides good scans so you shouldn't be in for many unpleasant surprises if you study them carefully. >>

I too have purchased TONS from Jeff. Mostly 1975s. Early on, he was spot on with his assessments of grades. I mostly bid on ones he calls NM-MT+. Many have come back 9s but mostly 8s. Lately though, they have been duds. But as was mentioned earlier, they are great set upgrade cards.

dude · May 31, 2009 10:53PM

In 2007 I did a 12 month test study on sellers who sold 1960-1969 raw baseball cards on eBay to see if it was a profitable source for finding cards to submit for grading and re-sell. I bought around 500 raw cards, mostly of the "low pop profile" from various sellers including Klinger83. My findings with him were OK: about 3 of 4 will grade as stated and while the remainder will grade one grade below. He's actually better than most of the sellers out there.

As for the entire year-long study, my findings revealed that buying raw and re-selling graded was not a viable means of profitability. I made about $500 net (accounting for grading and eBay fees) but that excluded all the trips to the post office and an estimated 300-400 hours of time searching for cards on eBay. In short, I would have been far better off working at a local burger stand for minimum wage.

More importantly, this study also greatly heightens my skepticism of several eBay dealers, especially one in particular, who buys lots of raw on eBay and then seems to have an uncanny knack of getting impressively high PSA grades on the "low pop" cards in that era even though I outbid him on the majority of the described "NM/Mint" and "Mint" low pop cards that entire year leaving him to only buy thousands of mostly "NM" cards.

nam812 · June 4, 2009 9:14AM

I guess he's been grading some of the better stuff for himself

jivan · June 4, 2009 9:32AM

I bought loads of 69 basketball from him and most graded out from grading company.. was very happy with results from my purchases.. ivan

BurritoJimmy · June 4, 2009 10:42AM

Dude, that's interesting about that study you did. Kinda makes u wonder if it was so easy to buy raw cards on Ebay then flip em as graded, wouldn't we all be doing it? Something stinks, and it ain't the cropdusting from my burrito butt

Mintacular · June 4, 2009 11:12AM

To nam812:

I don't think your link to his PSA 9 '72 card is deceptive or deliberately misleading. However, to a casual observer it would seem to imply that Klinger (Jeff) has questionable character which is a very serious accusation in my opinion especially since his business is based on trust and honesty and your link may suggest to some that he is at the very least questionable.

I do not know Klinger (see my original reply) but have made a few buys from time to time and feel he is mostly accurate and far above the average vintage baseball sellers, not perfect, but an "8" or "9" out of 10.

Bottom line, he makes big buys of raw vintage sets, often high grade. Chances are he looks through each card and occasionally (10%?) one jumps out at him and makes him think "Damn, I have got to get this one graded--it could get a 10!" In those circumstances he sends them to PSA and hopes to cash in on a few of those.

Now, the other raw cards, which he realizes are more in the "6-8" range he lists on eBay with a "likely" number that card would receive. I do not remember (and I could be wrong on this!) him claiming to buyers that his raw stuff will get a "9 or higher" because as stated, he would have pulled that card and rolled the dice himself.

All that said, in my opinion, he is very ethical and if you think his raw stuff will get a 9 or 10, think again, he has already pulled those cards and submitted them himself.

nam812 · June 4, 2009 11:27AM

You were dropped on your head multiple times as an infant, right?

MBMiller25 · June 4, 2009 11:42AM

<< Kinda makes u wonder if it was so easy to buy raw cards on Ebay then flip em as graded, wouldn't we all be doing it? Something stinks, >>

Burrito, I dont think Dan was saying it was easy to buy RAW cards on EBAY and then flip them as graded. I think he said the exact opposite, He would rather haver worked at a local burger stand than taken a year of his life to Net $500.

MBMiller25 · June 4, 2009 11:46AM

<< don't think your link to his PSA 9 '72 card is deceptive or deliberately misleading. However, to a casual observer it would seem to imply that Klinger (Jeff) has questionable character which is a very serious >>

Nonsense!

RonBurgundy · June 4, 2009 1:27PM

"You were dropped on your head multiple times as an infant, right?"

Mintacular · June 4, 2009 1:40PM

I…I think it's finally over. Our reactionary emotional response seems to have stopped it dead in its tracks. If I'm right, all we have to do now is smugly reiterate our half-formed thesis and—oh, no! For the love of God, no! It's thoughtfully mulling things over!

Run! Run! It's making reasonable, fact-based arguments!

Quickly! Hide behind self-righteousness! The ad hominem rejoinders—ready the ad hominem rejoinders! Watch out! Dodge the issue at hand! Question its character and keep moving haphazardly from one flawed point to the next!

All together now! Put every bit of secondhand conjecture into it you've got!

Goddamn it, nothing's working! It's trapped us in our own unsubstantiated claims! We need to switch fundamentally unsound tactics. Hurry, throw up the straw man! Look, I think it's going for it. C'mon…c'mon…yes, it's going for it! Now hit it with the thing that one guy told us once while it's distracted by our ludicrous rationalizations!

Gah! It's calmly and evenhandedly deflecting everything we're throwing at it. Our deductive fallacies are only making it stronger! Wait…what on earth is it doing now? Oh, no, it has sources! My God, it's defending itself with ironclad sources! Someone stop the citing! Please, please stop the citing!

The language is impenetrable! For all that is good and holy, backpedal with all your might!

Where are the children? Someone overprotect the children! They cannot be exposed to this kind of illuminative reasoning. Their young, open minds are much too vulnerable to independent thought. We have to shield them behind our unshakeable intolerance for critical thinking.

What?!? Noooooooooo! Richard! For the love of God, it's convinced Richard!

No time for tears now. Richard's mind has been changed forever. But we mustn't let it weaken our resolve. Mark my words, our ignorance will hold, no matter the cost. Now, more than ever, we have to keep floundering ahead with blind faith in our increasingly fallacious worldview.

For Richard's sake.

What's that? Now it's making an appeal to reason? Never! Do you hear me, you eloquent, well-read behemoth? Never! We'll die before we recognize what we secretly know to be true! The cognitive dissonance only makes our denial stronger!

We have but one hope left: passive-aggressive slights disguised as impersonal discourse.† Okay, everyone, careful now…careful…if this is going to work, we have to arrogantly assume that it won't be smart enough to catch on to our attempt to salvage some feeling of superiority and—oh, God, it's calling us out! Quick, avoid eye contact and stammer an apology! Tell it we were just joking! Tell it we were joking!

Arrgh! Our pride! Oh, Lord, our pride! It burns!

All is lost. We don't stand a chance against its relentless onslaught of exhaustive research and immaculate rhetoric. We may as well lie down and—Christ, how it pains me to say it—admit that it's right. My friends, I would like to take these last few moments of stubborn close-mindedness to say that it's been an honor to dig myself into this hole with you.

Unless…wait, of course! Why didn't we think of it before? Volume! Sheer volume! It's so simple. Quickly now, we don't have much time! Don't let it get a word in edgewise! Derisively cut it off mid-sentence! Now, launch the sophomoric personal attacks! Louder, yes, that's it, louder! Be repetitive, juvenile, and obstinate! It's working! It's working!

We've done it! It's walking away and shaking its head in disgust! Huzzah! Finally—defeated with a single three-minute volley of irrelevant, off-topic shouting!

WinPitcher · June 4, 2009 1:59PM

No, I would not buy raw from this seller.

Steve

OAKESY25 · June 4, 2009 2:15PM

No where in your incoherent babbling have you made an attempt to make a logical answer. Everyone in the forum community is now dumber for having read that. You are awarded no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

thunderdan · June 4, 2009 2:18PM

What the...

Has anybody seen "Groundhog Day" with Bill Murray?

hammered · June 5, 2009 12:55AM

Just wasted 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back

judgebuck · January 20, 2011 1:59PM

If you guys won't buy raw set breaks from klinger83, then please tell me who you would recommend. I've bought quite a lot from him, and they all look pretty good, with a few exceptions.

hammered · January 21, 2011 2:30AM

Again, it depends on what you want to use them for. If you are filling sets, go for it.
If you intend to send them to PSA, subtract at least one grade from his item description.

Would you buy raw from Klinger83?

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