**Ebay's new pack policy goes against my recommendation to them**
summerof68
Posts: 748 ✭
As some of you are aware over the last two weeks I have exposed three of ebay's largest seller's of counterfeit vintage wax packs. During this time I was in contact with ebay and giving them all the documented evidence I had against these three sellers.
I also was in contact with the FBI and had given them all my findings.
And I let ebay know that the FBI was aware that they (ebay) had been made aware of all this pack fraud.
In my communications with ebay I strongly recommended that they prohibit the sale of all 1980 and earlier wax wrappers from all sports. I also recommended they prohibit the sale of pre-1980 wax pack "inserts" as well.
I explained to them that this would not end the problem but that it would put a substantial dent in this counterfeiting.
I told them that there are alot of dealers who do in fact sell legitimate unopened pre-80 packs on ebay and that my goal was for ebay to eliminate (only) the wrappers and inserts.
However this morning I received an email from ebay thanking me for my hard work and they had adopted a new policy. I wish they had followed my recommendation but they chose otherwise.
But I guess this is what happens when people who make the decisions are not well-educated in what they are deciding upon--that being the many facets of vintage unopened material.
But I gave it my best shot and that is all I can do. I can only leave it up to the "powers to be" to take it from there and ebay acted.
Eight months of evidence gathering didn't bring forth the precise changes in ebay that I had recommend or hoped for but quite frankly from the very onset I was sure that ANY changes in ebay as a result of my work would be highly remote at best!
I also was in contact with the FBI and had given them all my findings.
And I let ebay know that the FBI was aware that they (ebay) had been made aware of all this pack fraud.
In my communications with ebay I strongly recommended that they prohibit the sale of all 1980 and earlier wax wrappers from all sports. I also recommended they prohibit the sale of pre-1980 wax pack "inserts" as well.
I explained to them that this would not end the problem but that it would put a substantial dent in this counterfeiting.
I told them that there are alot of dealers who do in fact sell legitimate unopened pre-80 packs on ebay and that my goal was for ebay to eliminate (only) the wrappers and inserts.
However this morning I received an email from ebay thanking me for my hard work and they had adopted a new policy. I wish they had followed my recommendation but they chose otherwise.
But I guess this is what happens when people who make the decisions are not well-educated in what they are deciding upon--that being the many facets of vintage unopened material.
But I gave it my best shot and that is all I can do. I can only leave it up to the "powers to be" to take it from there and ebay acted.
Eight months of evidence gathering didn't bring forth the precise changes in ebay that I had recommend or hoped for but quite frankly from the very onset I was sure that ANY changes in ebay as a result of my work would be highly remote at best!
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
0
Comments
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
Not sure who you are, but you should delve into Summer's threads over the past few weeks and see what kind of effort and research he put into this before you go spouting off with your sarcastic witticisms.
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<< <i>
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
Not sure who you are, but you should delve into Summer's threads over the past few weeks and see what kind of effort and research he put into this before you go spouting off with your sarcastic witticisms. >>
Agreed.
So, what's the new policy that eBay came up with?
<< <i>there is a thread about it on here somewhere >>
Look 3 threads down...it's dutymon's thread
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>
<< <i>there is a thread about it on here somewhere >>
Look 3 threads down...it's dutymon's thread >>
yeah-what the space mushroom said
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
disgruntled bad wax seller?
Your avatar is like your replies. Just like you would get when you get a wrong answer on Family Feud. Wrong.
summerof68- I applaud your efforts and although ebay didn't make the best desicion on how to handle this at least they made one vs. acting blind.
I've reported easily over 20 1988 B/W test cards of Bill Ripken that are fake and I dont think 1 has ever been pulled. I guess I have to get the FBI involved. My wife says I take my hobby too far as it is. I can't imagine how she'd react to this... "Donovan, The FBI's on the phone about those counterfeit Bill Ripkens.." lol
<< <i>
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
disgruntled bad wax seller? >>
I'd say yes.
SCAregalia.com - Masonic Regalia & Supply
I applaud and commend you for your efforts!
PoppaJ
<< <i>
<< <i>there is a thread about it on here somewhere >>
Look 3 threads down...it's dutymon's thread >>
Matt, I think you mean 2 threads down.
-Tom
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>there is a thread about it on here somewhere >>
Look 3 threads down...it's dutymon's thread >>
Matt, I think you mean 2 threads down.
-Tom >>
No, no, hold it. It's one thread down. My bad.
<< <i>In my communications with ebay I strongly recommended that they prohibit the sale of all 1980 and earlier wax wrappers from all sports. I also recommended they prohibit the sale of pre-1980 wax pack "inserts" as well. >>
What do you mean by wax pack "inserts"? Like advertisement cards or literally inserts (i.e. 1968 Topps Football Stand Ups)? I can't imagine you mean the latter of the two, but from my limited pre-1980 pack experience, I am not aware of advertisements being common inserts.
As far as the snarky comments about you causing a poorly thought out eBay policy, that falls on eBay alone... sadly, just another poor policy decision in a long, long line from eBay.
Snorto~
<< <i>Vito, this IS summer....... >>
I sense a communication gap... Vito was responding to dalemurphy03.
<< <i>Vito, this IS summer....... >>
I know. Should have said Summer's OTHER threads.
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puzzle pieces/stickers ,stuff
<< <i>What do you mean by wax pack "inserts"
i would think like 82 donruss puzzle pieces and fleer stickers of 83,stuff like that that a crook would need >>
Given Summer was talking pre-1980 packs, I am not sure that is what he has in mind. I can't imagine he is talking about these sort of inserts as they are legit collectibles. If you were to band these puzzle pieces / stickers... why not ban all inserts? And if you are going to ban inserts, why not ban cards all together?
Of course the same could be said about empty wrappers and boxes... they are legit collectibles as well.
Aside from banning bulk wrapper lots, I don't know what eBay could do to minimize the resealing fraud that I do believe is wide spread on eBay (and the hobby in general). At some point you have to defer to the principle of caveat emptor, no?
Snorto~
Folks who think that EBAY's seemingly reactionary new policy is
not perfect, should blame TOPPS; not the folks who complained
about the fraudsters.
TOPPS has had - and still does have - the power to solve the
problem in a reasonable/measured way, but they have wrongly
decided it is not their problem.
The courts have pretty much continued to find that EBAY is NOT
a counterfeit-enabler BECAUSE rights-owners have the absolute
ability to remove fake/fraudulent/suspicious items from the site.
ALL VeRO takedowns are absolute and can only be reversed by
the rights-owner or by court order.
Because the owner of the IP has long-failed to act in this matter,
EBAY likely feels they had no choice but to protect themselves
from the prying eyes of LE.
................
Since EBAY generally prohibits the sale of designer-label boxes/bags/cards/
stickers/wrapping paper, it is reasonable that they might eventually decide
to institute a similar policy regarding pack wrappers and boxes. (That will
NOT stop counterfeiters, but it will slow them down. More importantly, to
EBAY, it will take EBAY off the hook on any potential legal liability.)
........................
In 2007, I met with Norrington and lobbied for the inclusion of a "Fraud
Alert" forum on the EBAY boards. (My primary issues were related to
designer-fashion and not to collectibles.)
EBAY was unable to get over their fears of possible litigation from "wrongfully"
labeled fraudsters, and no such dedicated-board was established. (Such a
board would likely have been effective in curbing at least some fraud.)
When EBAY removes fraud warnings/stories from their boards, they do so
not because they are evil - though they certainly ARE evil - but because
they don't want to be bogged down with even more litigation than they
already deal with.
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
Not often a poster but read all the threads.
Summerof68 put in MONTHS of work on a project that he feels very strongly about, is very careful and does not spout off about counterfeit pack sellers until he has ALL the evidence, presents all of it to a very educated board, and works behind the scenes in an appropriate manner to bring about change. All of this is done in a professional manner. And all of us collectors benefit from his efforts though we did not do any of the work to make it happen. For all this I say thank you to summerof68 for your efforts, and as for dalemurphy03 and his comments, who are you exactly? Because you sure sound disgruntled...
he got laid off as a fluffer cause he came up a little short
<< <i>
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
disgruntled bad wax seller?
Your avatar is like your replies. Just like you would get when you get a wrong answer on Family Feud. Wrong.
>>
this coming from a guy who collects 89' Fleer FF Ripkens and other nonsense worthless junk
<< <i>
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
Not often a poster but read all the threads.
Summerof68 put in MONTHS of work on a project that he feels very strongly about, is very careful and does not spout off about counterfeit pack sellers until he has ALL the evidence, presents all of it to a very educated board, and works behind the scenes in an appropriate manner to bring about change. All of this is done in a professional manner. And all of us collectors benefit from his efforts though we did not do any of the work to make it happen. For all this I say thank you to summerof68 for your efforts, and as for dalemurphy03 and his comments, who are you exactly? Because you sure sound disgruntled... >>
guess he has nothing better to do with his time
<< <i><<and as for dalemurphy03 and his comments, who are you exactly? Because you sure sound disgruntled..>>
he got laid off as a fluffer cause he came up a little short
wow that is so whitty and original.....whats next a mom joke?
<< <i>probably, depends on how much you want to run your mouth
i love when your mom runs her mouth up my taint
<< <i>
guess he has nothing better to do with his time >>
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
<< <i>
<< <i>
guess he has nothing better to do with his time >>
awww a troll, more unoriginal jokes....keep them coming
<< <i>
<< <i>probably, depends on how much you want to run your mouth
i love when your mom runs her mouth up my taint >>
..........................
for posterity
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>probably, depends on how much you want to run your mouth
i love when your mom runs her mouth up my taint >>
..........................
for posterity >>
thanks, and thanks to you and your hard work cracking the cold case of the resealed wax packs
<< <i>this guy reminds me of cardcollector101
oh
<< <i>
I also was in contact with the FBI and had given them all my findings.
And I let ebay know that the FBI was aware that they (ebay) had been made aware of all this pack fraud.
>>
i'm sure they are right on this one. i'm sure they were chuckling after they hung up with your call
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
Gary, is that you?
I thought you moved on to Disneybilia?
Snorto~
<< <i>
<< <i>probably, depends on how much you want to run your mouth
i love when your mom runs her mouth up my taint >>
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
I'll give you a hand
That was a Great Job and good recommendations.
Hopefully their won't be as many crap packs out their.
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
disgruntled bad wax seller?
Your avatar is like your replies. Just like you would get when you get a wrong answer on Family Feud. Wrong.
>>
this coming from a guy who collects 89' Fleer FF Ripkens and other nonsense worthless junk >>
So I should only collect items with monetary value? pbbt. Whatever. Weak try. I have a job and dont rely on pictures of men as my income or retirement. (Not that there's anything wrong with those who do, but that's not my reasoning behind my collection) Put more effort into it. You get 2 more chances and then you'll have 3 Red X's.
I collect for fun and enjoy helping others within the hobby. That 'value' is priceless.
<< <i>probably, depends on how much you want to run your mouth
i love when your mom runs her mouth up my taint >>
DaleMurphy03 was such a dork. Lighten up, just because you can't sell bogus packs anymore is not the end of the world. You can do new things with your life..... like get an education. Leave the WEED alone.
I hope the real Dale Murphy isn't this lame, stupid or immature in real life.
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>probably, depends on how much you want to run your mouth
i love when your mom runs her mouth up my taint >>
DaleMurphy03 was such a dork. Lighten up, just because you can't sell bogus packs anymore is not the end of the world. You can do new things with your life..... like get an education. Leave the WEED alone.
I hope the real Dale Murphy isn't this lame, stupid or immature in real life.
Dave >>
The real Dale Murphy is a perfect gentleman. I chatted with him briefly when he was serving his Mormon mission in Boston, MA.
//////////////////
The classiest of the classy.
with there resealed junk.
This angry man who has come here to complain is just mad because now he may actually have to go
find a real job and stop ripping people off of there hard earned dollars.
As far as people collecting "junk". Who are you to judge what is junk and what is not. This board is full
of intelligence"most of the time" and genorosity.
Ok , i am going to have anotherbeer now and go look at my "junk".....
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
Steve
It's because I work very hard for my money that it genuinely hurts me to see fellow hard-working board members and ebayers having their money stolen from them in this manner.
In regard to my recommendation to ban both wrappers and inserts I was generally refering to pre-80 wax pack inserts such as '71 bb coins, '70 bb game pieces, story booklets, all-star posters, '67 pin-up posters, '68 fb posters and the like.
The were no specific inserts recommend to ebay as I only recommend this in general. I simply wanted ebay to consider the items needed to counterfeit a pack, excluding single cards, and give it thoughtful consideration.
In no way did I anticipate their acting so suddenly and comprehensively. As I mentioned in my post I frankly didn't expect them to act whatsoever. And I also expected to receive only "generic" responses.
<< <i>yea cause they should listen to you since you strongly recommended it, go pat yourself on the back and lets all give you a hand >>
Wow, Huge surprise, another douche bag poster that's found his way onto these boards.
Nice work Summer, I applaud you for even going to the effort to try to educate EBAY. They have proven over and over that they will take whatever makes the most sense and do the exact opposite.
<< <i>Sorry Vito for misinterpreting your reply as I should of known better. I was quickly reading the thread while leaving to work (and yes Murphy I do work) and in my haste I read it in error. I'm a very hard working brick mason who has advanced arthritis to show for it.
It's because I work very hard for my money that it genuinely hurts me to see fellow hard-working board members and ebayers having their money stolen from them in this manner.
In regard to my recommendation to ban both wrappers and inserts I was generally refering to pre-80 wax pack inserts such as '71 bb coins, '70 bb game pieces, story booklets, all-star posters, '67 pin-up posters, '68 fb posters and the like.
The were no specific inserts recommend to ebay as I only recommend this in general. I simply wanted ebay to consider the items needed to counterfeit a pack, excluding single cards, and give it thoughtful consideration.
In no way did I anticipate their acting so suddenly and comprehensively. As I mentioned in my post I frankly didn't expect them to act whatsoever. And I also expected to receive only "generic" responses. >>
Just curious why would you want pre 1980 inserts banned?, as those that you named are collected by quite a few people, and the 71 BB coins were only inserted into 1 series in 1971 , the only one that I am sure of, the other inserts may have been inserted into all the series, just not sure on those, plus there was 1964 Topps BB coins.
I mean why not just ban all pre 1980 sportscards if they are not graded by one of the big TPG companies.
I also want to say thanks to the people trying to make Ebay safer for the buyer. I just think Ebay has went from one extreme to another. PS: I sell mostly single cards and coins, very little unopened wax as most of what I have left costs more to ship then what it would sell for!
Steve