Why has NGC certified so many more Proof Isabella Quarters than PCGS?
commoncents05
Posts: 10,094 ✭✭✭
NGC has certified 34, while PCGS has only certified 4. Why the big difference?
-Paul
-Paul
Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
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Comments
K S
I have not looked at enough Isabella Proof coins in holders to have an opinion one way or the other. All I will say is that one should take great care in buying a purported Proof of that issue before he spends really big bucks.
certain koolaide taste better then others
<< <i>NGC is not grading UHRs as proofs, proof like yes, proof no. >>
They mean the actual high reliefs from 1907. Not the new UHRs.
<< <i>I dunno - why does NGC certify so many more proof High Relief St Gaudins?
Why? Because PCGS doesn't want the liability of being WRONG in that one instance. NGC is at least taking the risk of being right most of the time. Whereas everytime PCGS doesn't slab something that is truly a rarity as what it truly is, they take the more conservative "better business" route, stay safe, and that coin goes to NGC to get in the right holder. Once you know the business model, you understand the grading and attribution standards better. no condescending, smartazz smiley needed
Edit to add since so many are thinking about the modern UHR's: I've seen a big difference in the production quality of these UHR's and I've had some that were just riddled with die polish lines and had horrible mirrors and I've seen the other extreme. I've seen some so glassy and perfect that there SHOULD be a difference somehow denoting the water-like fields that these fresh dies produce apart from the die-polish filled examples that are so plentiful. Some are so bad that the difference is similar to PL and DMPL Morgans which in the morgans, means a huge difference in price. I haven't sent any in to NGC for the PL designation but I fully understand and appreciate their attempt to help consumers determine the finest quality examples for their collections. Why hate that? It's the market that's putting the big $$ on them. Hate the market, not the those who are trying to assist you.
Really now? Well, then while we're at it why don't we discuss the 1855-S BMP quarter and half that NGC refused to holder as proofs. Which were then holdered by PCGS and NGC was aghast. And which years later were sold as part of the Richmond Collection in NGC BMP holders.
Wait for it.... wait for it ... here it is - that darn condenscending smartazz smiley!
<< <i>Why? Because PCGS doesn't want the liability of being WRONG in that one instance. NGC is at least taking the risk of being right most of the time. Whereas everytime PCGS doesn't slab something that is truly a rarity as what it truly is, they take the more conservative "better business" route, stay safe, and that coin goes to NGC to get in the right holder. Once you know the business model, you understand the grading and attribution standards better. no condescending, smartazz smiley needed
Really now? Well, then while we're at it why don't we discuss the 1855-S BMP quarter and half that NGC refused to holder as proofs. Which were then holdered by PCGS and NGC was aghast. And which years later were sold as part of the Richmond Collection in NGC BMP holders.
Wait for it.... wait for it ... here it is - that darn condenscending smartazz smiley!
You can point out individual references to side both points of the argument. Anyone with half a brain cell knows to not use the word ALWAYS when arguing a point because there's always a handful of references that are outside the standard deviation of the statistics involved. The overall performance is what was brought up in the OP, not some esoteric moment in grading history. It's the MO I'm referencing. Now, if you have a valid argument that is within the realm of this thread and my post that refutes or negates my assertion, I'd love to hear it. It's a simple question, (which you so un-cunningly danced around with your own condescending question "I dunno - why does NGC certify so many more proof High Relief St Gaudins?" and a reference to an individual point when the OP specifically posted about a global difference, not a specific one) why does NGC grade more difficult to attribute proofs than PCGS? Again, no condescending smartazz smiley needed.
The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. PCGS won't call ANY high relief a proof which is what I was inferring with my comment and grin. It's a grin by the way, not a condencending smartazz smiley. You spend enough time around here and it takes a grin to get through the day. You know - that grin that you musta had on your face while attempting to hawk some of Adrian's coins?
Oops - that just kinda slipped out.
<< <i>The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. >>
I find this answer to be waaaaay better than the lame one DK posted.
<< <i>On a diet again, Brandon? You're awfully grouchy.
The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. PCGS won't call ANY high relief a proof which is what I was inferring with my comment and grin. It's a grin by the way, not a condencending smartazz smiley. You spend enough time around here and it takes a grin to get through the day. You know - that grin that you musta had on your face while attempting to hawk some of Adrian's coins?
Oops - that just kinda slipped out.
He's back and BTW he's been through ALL the Anaconda Records that I kept in good faith. He's seen my bank account and my Polaris inventory. We're still good friends and he recently spent 2 weeks at my house. I wonder what the penalty is for publically inferring that I tried to sell something that wasn't mine in a market where trust makes or breaks a business. You want to feel the heat? Elaborate on your comment that is stated publically to many of my clients. Too late. You just really made a big-time boo boo. Sleep tight.
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<< <i>On a diet again, Brandon? You're awfully grouchy.
The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. PCGS won't call ANY high relief a proof which is what I was inferring with my comment and grin. It's a grin by the way, not a condencending smartazz smiley. You spend enough time around here and it takes a grin to get through the day. You know - that grin that you musta had on your face while attempting to hawk some of Adrian's coins?
Oops - that just kinda slipped out.
He's back and BTW he's been through ALL the Anaconda Records that I kept in good faith. He's seen my bank account and my Polaris inventory. We're still good friends and he recently spent 2 weeks at my house. I wonder what the penalty is for publically inferring that I tried to sell something that wasn't mine in a market where trust makes or breaks a business. You want to feel the heat? Elaborate on your comment that is stated publically to many of my clients. Too late. You just really made a big-time boo boo. Sleep tight.
Huh? You worked for him for years and sold coins for him [ie: hawked his wares - ever heard the term?]. You admitted here that your starting prices were often wayyyy high [just make us an offer!]. You also admitted here that several of the coins you tried to sell were AT. If it don't take a perma grin to do those things, I don't know what it takes.
As far as all your other blather above about selling things that wasn't yours, I have no friggin idea what you're talking about and therefore inferred nothing of the sort. Good luck with your diet - it's really got you in a foul mood.
<< <i>He's back and BTW he's been through ALL the Anaconda Records that I kept in good faith. He's seen my bank account and my Polaris inventory. We're still good friends and he recently spent 2 weeks at my house. I wonder what the penalty is for publically inferring that I tried to sell something that wasn't mine in a market where trust makes or breaks a business. You want to feel the heat? Elaborate on your comment that is stated publically to many of my clients. Too late. You just really made a big-time boo boo. Sleep tight. (Yes, that was a condescending winky.)
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Grouchy doesn't begin to cover this....
Who is John Galt?
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<< <i>He's back and BTW he's been through ALL the Anaconda Records that I kept in good faith. He's seen my bank account and my Polaris inventory. We're still good friends and he recently spent 2 weeks at my house. I wonder what the penalty is for publically inferring that I tried to sell something that wasn't mine in a market where trust makes or breaks a business. You want to feel the heat? Elaborate on your comment that is stated publically to many of my clients. Too late. You just really made a big-time boo boo. Sleep tight. (Yes, that was a condescending winky.)
>>
Grouchy doesn't begin to cover this.... >>
His comment could be taken in more than one context. If I went overboard I apologize. It's late. I'm tired. He still didn't answer the OP's question. I'll revisit the thread tomorrow when I'm not so upset.
As far as inferring anything, I wasn't even in the same ballpark that you thought I was. I've only heard good things about you as you learned the trade and got better at discerning what was good in holders and what wasn't. Last I heard was that you got a big bonus and went into biz for yourself. Best of luck.
Anyone care to elaborate on this question?
No, actually, I got hosed out of the bonus by a combination of several factors that were beyond my control and quite personal to Adrian that I do not wish to discuss in an open forum. Alot of it had to do with his ex. I got stuck trying to start a coin business with nearly 0 capital after I had sold on average of $330,000 a month for 4 consecutive years in some damn fine rare coins. However, that's no excuse for me jumping down your throat. For that I apologize. I tend to get very argumenative and too passionate about things when I'm stressed out. (Come on, you've got to admit that Laura isn't half as bad as me
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<< <i>The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. >>
I find this answer to be waaaaay better than the lame one DK posted. >>
i hope that pointing this out makes you feel better
K S
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<< <i>The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. >>
I find this answer to be waaaaay better than the lame one DK posted. >>
i hope that pointing this out makes you feel better
K S >>
Actually Karl, it makes me sad. But sometimes life is like that.
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<< <i>The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. >>
I find this answer to be waaaaay better than the lame one DK posted. >>
i hope that pointing this out makes you feel better
K S >>
Actually Karl, it makes me sad. But sometimes life is like that. >>
sadness can be a way of life, but i do'nt recommend it!
take the kiddies for a car ride this weekend, it'll cheer you up.
K S
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<< <i>The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. >>
I find this answer to be waaaaay better than the lame one DK posted. >>
i hope that pointing this out makes you feel better
K S >>
Actually Karl, it makes me sad. But sometimes life is like that. >>
sadness can be a way of life, but i do'nt recommend it!
take the kiddies for a car ride this weekend, it'll cheer you up.
K S >>
Karl, I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but there is a coin show this week in Long Beach, and I'm at it.
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<< <i>The difference is obviously what NGC will call a proof vs what PCGS will call a proof. >>
I find this answer to be waaaaay better than the lame one DK posted. >>
i hope that pointing this out makes you feel better
K S >>
Actually Karl, it makes me sad. But sometimes life is like that. >>
sadness can be a way of life, but i do'nt recommend it!
take the kiddies for a car ride this weekend, it'll cheer you up.
K S >>
Karl, I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but there is a coin show this week in Long Beach, and I'm at it. >>
heh heh heh....
K S