Update, photos taken before return of COUNTERFEIT 1850 Gold Dollar!

ambro51

Though I had terminated the sale by email exchange with the seller of this coin, the frisky gent had already had it in the mail. So by mutual consent, I opened the package and took some close up photos of the 'coin' before I returned it.

His last email reply was pretty decent, though I dont think Ill take him up on the offer of the 'coin' back again

To follow up with our ongoing communication.
Please be advised that we take this matter very
seriously.I've been collecting and selling coins
for over 10 years, 7 years on eBay alone. As you
can see from our feedback, our top priority is
the customers' satisfaction. We'd never sell any
counterfeit items, or try to deceive our buyers
in any other way. It's not only against eBay's
policy, it's against the law. We'll be
investigating the source of this coin, and I'll
be submitting the coin itself for certification
with one of the grading services, as soon as it
is returned.Please be advised that we'll be
refunding your full purchase price minus
shipping/handling.Once we receive the
professional opinion on the condition of the
coin, we'll offer you two options: either buy the
coin with free shipping, or if it turns out to be
a copy, we'll refund your shipping fee from the
original transaction. I believe this should be
resolved within a month, I'll keep you updated.



So feast your eyes on a poorly made copy of a gold dollar. The reason I am posting this is that there is a lot of talk about counterfeit gold dollars...like sasquatch, its not easy to find photos of them....

Soft rounded break into the bust rather than a sharp angle


nasty rough lettering, uneven surfaces. dentils a total mess


reeding looks almost like a gear, cut so deep


lifeless portrait


fields and lettering show the same 'finish'


Liberty very indistinct and hair detail too smooth



So no matter what they say...but the plastic too!

InternetJunky

Thanks for sharing these pictures. This thread is going in the Bookmarks for when I eventually do muster up the cash to purchase my first gold coin.

tjc2120

Thanks - very useful.

Do you use or recommend a reference book for recognizing counterfeit gold dollars?

notwilight

Sounds like even if you don't get your shipping back it was worth it for you to examine the coin up close. --Jerry

ambro51

The educational benefit was immense.

I think the ship fee will be coming back too

lcoopie

do you have
United States Gold- Counterfeit Detection Guide by Bill Fivaz
after reading it through, I would only buy slabbed gold

PerryHall

<< <i>The educational benefit was immense. >>



There are less expensive ways to get an education than by buying counterfeits on eBay. As lcoopie suggested, buy the Bill Fivaz book. "Buy the book before the counterfeit coin."

SirAnthonyAC

Thanks so much for the lesson and macros!

Could you lease elaborate on the statment "fields and lettering show the same 'finish'"

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Thanks agian!

ambro51

its a look, just an appearance, with a real coin portrait and lettering use a different finish to the die than the flat areas of the field. This thing just looked like a stamping.

and, Perry you are right (as usual). but, the sharing of this information exactly how I am doing it has a much greater value than if I alone studied a book (which is on the way, along with the lonesome john book).

Perry, one question, since you are always right........are you my Wife????

HalfStrike

Ambros with all of the fakes in circulation aren't you worried that it will hold the price of the coins back?

Say there were 8,000 coins struck and 8,000 fakes made for a particular year, that means the perceived amount is doubly what were actually struck.

It seems that these coins are the best gold to counterfeit based on the premium over spot prices. That isn't good IMO.

PerryHall

<< <i>its a look, just an appearance, with a real coin portrait and lettering use a different finish to the die than the flat areas of the field. This thing just looked like a stamping.

and, Perry you are right (as usual). but, the sharing of this information exactly how I am doing it has a much greater value than if I alone studied a book (which is on the way, along with the lonesome john book).

Perry, one question, since you are always right........are you my Wife???? >>



I sure hope not!!!!!!!!!!

sinin1

It depends on your definition, but I feel it is a decent fake - flaws show up at magnification



it probably has fooled many people in its lifetime (probably less than 30 rather than 155 yrs)

BECOKA

Very useful thread, thanks for posting it. I do believe this is as useful as a book. Books are nice but it's still difficult to see what they mean from photo's, no photo can truly capture how the coin looks in hand. Seeing it in hand and comparing to a similarly worn original coin you really can tell all these tell tail features.

CharlotteDude

I can't see a reputable 3rd Party service (PCGS, NGC, or even ANACS) would declare that coin as authentic. Just one quick glance at the stars tell me it's a poorly made fake... not to mention the many other anomalies.... I'd tell him he might as well refund the shipping charge now.

'dude

kaz

Thanks for posting those photos, they are very helpful. My friend who does a fair amount of business in gold dollars believes the reeding and dentils on many of the fakes are produced with a knurling device. Up close the defects are pretty obvious, but with the typical auction photos they could be easy to miss.