20 set jump in one day!

kieferscoins

The Set Registry has jumped up in the number of sets to 2023, a 20 set jump in one day. For several weeks it hovered around the 1980 mark and I thought it was the top. How many sets do you think it will get to? My guess would be to 2,300 within two months.

Cameron Kiefer

gmarguli

Unless PCGS restricts adding sets until a minimum % complete is reached, the number of sets will continue higher. There is nothing like having 10 Registry Sets with a total of 15 coins between all 10 sets.

kieferscoins

Every set has to start somewhere. I don't think it would be smart for PCGS to say "you have to be x% complete". Many collectors would not like it and stay away from the sets.

pop1

Remember, the commem subsets will come on line within that two month period.

kieferscoins

Will the commem subsets increase the numbers? I don't know alot about the commems. If so, what is your guess of how many sets will exist on May 1, 2002?

Cameron Kiefer

gmarguli

I don't think it is out of line to request that a bare minimal % of the SET be completed before registering it. Perhaps allow you to register the set and add the coins any time you want, but not show it publicly until X% is complete. It's pathetic that there are so many set with only a few coins registered. That's not a set. I could have dozens of Registry Sets that contain only 1-3 coins if I wanted. What's the point?

pop1

It's hard to guess. If YN's sets are deleted, per Greg's request, the number could go down. I would hope that your 2300 guess is about right.

braddick

Greg- You're fighting a loosing battle. Your suggestion was my first when this forum opened up. Even a 30% coin requirement BEFORE the set is registered seemed fair to me. It was shot down.

Monstavet

I know I have several sets that I am working on (4 to be exact) that I have not registered, yet. They will go in when I feel they reach the right point, and when I get around to it.

gmarguli

I think at some point the minimum % requirement will have to be implemented. Who wants to visit the Ike Registry and see 145 sets registered of which 85 have 3 coins of less?

It's going to become too cumbersome to handle if there are too many small sets. Besides, by allowing a bunch of people to register small sets and then changing the requirements, the non-serious collectors will drop out (less work for PCGS) and the more serious collectors will be forced to purchase more PCGS coins.

egsantos

I agree with Greg.
I believe that is very easy, executable by software, PCGS accept new sets with any number of coins but just publish it after being 30 or 40% complete.


Eddy

pop1

Isn't there already a cut off, so that one doesn't have to see all the sets? There is the top five, and then all the rest.
I think this is just a case of the "make the cut-off RIGHT AFTER ME" club.
I think the YNs would be disapppointed, if they couldn't get recognition until they had more money (coins).

gmarguli

There is kind of a cut off after the top five. However, there are so many junk sets listed in the Registry that I feel it cheapens the entire Registry.

I could hit the top 5 if I wanted to. I don't care at all about the Registry. If it were gone tomorrow I wouldn't even notice. It's not that I want a cut off right after me. If I needed the ego stroke and self recognition so badly I'd buy a #1 set from someone and put my name on it in all capital letters.

I don't care where they make the cut off, but there are sets listed with ZERO coins in it. Wow, what a set!!! Those 1 coin sets are also stunning. Nothing like have a world class set containing 1 coin worth $20. Those sets that are 3% complete are amazing. I really can't want to see what coin they're going to add next so they can leap ahead into spot #87 with 3.5% complete.

As for the YNs. Too bad. Let them learn in life that someone will always have more money and nicer coins than you. Is that too heartless? Maybe the ANA could start a place for YNs to register their sets?

kieferscoins

<< <i>As for the YNs. Too bad. Let them learn in life that someone will always have more money and nicer coins than you. >>



The YN's that are putting sets up are learning the right things by buying slabs and working on a set instead of buying everything. (I wish they had this forum years ago and I would have learned about not buying junk or overgraded coins). Keeping YN's away because there coins are subpar does not help the hobby. PCGS would be shunning people that will later in life buy more of their graded coins. Maybe my idea is wrong, but I was a YN as little as two years ago and still see their point of view.

Cameron Kiefer

gmarguli

I could just as easily argue that it's teaching YNs to rely on the grade on the slab and not the actual coin itself. When the Registry Set hype fades, just wait until some of these people try and sell their coins. Suddenly all those ugly coins which graded high will not be so attractive to buyers.

I cannot say that working on a set is better than collecting everything. To me collecting by date/mint mark can be very dull. I cannot imagine putting together a set of Morgan dollars or Washington quarters. I'd fall asleep 5 coins into the set. I'd much rather have 5 different coins than 5 of the same.

kieferscoins

I agree with you on the boring sets. That is why I am doing a Type set.

Cameron Kiefer

gary

Greg,most new collectors either don't have the funds are expertise to go it on there own and need to learn as they go from members of this board.If you dont want be a part of the registery and don't have positive thought's for others then you may be on the wrong forum.....gary

gmarguli

gary, I don't want to be part of the Registry. I've never hid my feeling on the Registry. I feel it promotes slab collecting instead of coin collecting. Most Registry set collectors would trade a stunning MS66 for an ugly MS67 since it is worth more "points". This is completely wrong.

I don't know what positive thoughts for others has to do with anything. How about words of advice. I think most of the Registry set collectors are going to get screwed. When the hype dies all these collectors with ugly high grade coins are going to be pissed when they can't sell their coins for nearly what they paid.

pop1

I think you may be giving registry set collectors unfair advise, unless you know more than any of them, as with a crystal ball, in my humble opinion.
Do you really think that all registry set collectors are as uninformed, inexperienced and unintelligent, as you say, Greg? If so, I don't agree.

scher

eye appeal should certainly take priority..i like gregs idea about not showing a set until a decent % of the set is there...how about half at least..its nice way to catalog though..but just not show it until at least half...also i think a coin MUST stand alone ugly coins will always be that and new folks sure arent hurt to know that they could be really $$ hurt to buy an "ugly" high grade...but in contrast a nice coin always seem to be a good investment long term..if that nice coin makes the set higher great...look at the $ a lot of those benson pieces sold for..great eye appeal those coins could be sold for a profit regardless of the registry..
bruce scher

gmarguli

If we needed a crystal ball to give advice, then no one would post here. I don't know the future. With respect to moderns I can take a guess. It's not even a blind guess. It's an educated guess. I remember selling PR69 modern coins for hundreds of dollars. I'm not talking about 1 or 2 coins, but MANY coins - PCGS boxes full of coins. Today you could buy any of those coins for slightly over slabbing fees. Was that a good investment? Nope. Would I have recommended people to buy them back then? Nope. I didn't need a crystal ball to see what would happen.

I have nothing against the Registry per se. It's a novel way to show off your coins. If it was more collector friendly, then I might even register a set or two. However, it's all based on grade. This is what I have a problem with. Ugly coins in high grades get rewarded over stunning coins in lower grades. The prices for these ugly coins gets pushed up and at some point they'll crash. These coins will be similar to the old NGC coins that graded MS67, but had black toning covering the coin. They still pop up for sale. They frequently don't even come close to Bluesheet bid. That's got to say something for buying quality.

I don't think all the Registry Set participants are uninformed, inexperienced and unintelligent and I never said they were. I enjoy "making" high grade moderns and selling them for obscene prices. The RS has been good to me. I just think that most of the participants value grade over the actual coin.

I've posted here in the past about coins in RS that are overgraded and/or ugly, but the owners are happy because of the grade. I know this for a fact since I sold them. There is a coin in one of the top RS that I made. I was hoping for a cameo designation. It didn't make cameo. However, PCGS gave me a present. They graded it 4 grades higher than I did. FOUR grades higher. Keep in mind I've probably submitted 40+ of these coins and they have always graded within one point of what I thought. I put this coin up on eBay with a big picture - ugly big planchet flaw fully visible. It sold for a ridiculous price. The buyer was happy. It's in their RS. A typical example of grade over quality.

I know of some Lincolns in obscenely high grades that have carbon spots on them. They're in RS. I've seen people post here about their new additions to their RS. The coins are junk. I don't mean they aren't expensive or high grade, but they are dogs for the grade. I've seen people "upgrade" their sets by replacing a great coin with a so-so coin because the grade on the slab was higher. To me this is insane.

Maybe the RS craze will continue for decades to come? I don't know and I don't care. I think the hype will die. Those who bought nice coins with great eye appeal will likely be rewarded when they go to sell the coins. Those who bought ugly, overgraded, low eye appeal coins because the slab said it was a high grade will be hurt when they try to sell. They'll be lucky to get Bluesheet for some of these coins. They'll likely be lost to this hobby because they got burned. Perhaps if I keep retelling the history of the previous hyped coins some collectors won't get burned or will at least make a more informed decision.

HoundDog

IMHO, we should incourage every one that wants to start collecting. If they only have one coin out of a 150 coin set, and they want to start a registry set with that one coin, why shouldn't they? If they need or want that extra feather in thier hat, then I say why not? What is the harm?

You never know what, or who that collector will become latter in thier life, or even better than that, who or how many others they will infulence and bring into this hobby.

Now I am not the sharpest pencil in the box here by no means, and don't even pretent to be. But it looks like to me that the prices of the coins is a simple supply and demand type of thing. Judging from this, we would want to give a "pat on the back" to every "Newbie" out there, instead of saying your set isn't good enough for our club ! Come back when your set grows up!

The more new collectors that come on board, this will make for more demand for our coins and sets, which eguals higher prices, and more profit. Now who is not in favor of making more money on thier investments?

Endocrinologist

It doesn't bother me to see a few sets at the bottom at are "5%" complete. What's the big deal? Just don't scoll down or open these sets.

I'm more worried that after a few years sets will be so competitive such that there is no movement at the top 40 spots (Gridlock). Now, that would be boring. Who wants to look at a "set" of PCGS Numbers (most aren't imaged) of coins that aren't yours.

Endo

CarlWohlforth

Ha, Ha, I like that "I'm not the sharpest pencil" line I know I'm not the sharpest pencil because I don't get the YN. Is that young numismatist? I can't even imagine any thing else...

If we limit sets to those of a certain completion aren't we saying that having a complete collection is important? Where are those people who think one coin can be better than a complete set?

I like it the way it is. The top 5 sets are easy to see, but you can see all sets of you do extra clicking with your mouse.

I think PCGS grading is pretty accurate. When I read Greg's post I get the impression that he is a better grader than PCGS. I know I'm not. I just learned to look at a coin properly within the past year. Sure I've seen a few exceptions where one coin, technically a point better, looks worse than the other. I don't see this often. Then again I don't see enough coins.

When is it much better to buy the slab than a raw coin? When you can't grade as well as PCGS. I know, I know, you are supposed to buy the book first. Well I never really learned until my money was on the line. I had to buy and sell before I really learned anything serious about grading. Maybe that is just me?

I really appreciate Greg's comments. Also those of others who have expressed these thoughts. It really has made me think. I have changed my behaviour because of those posts. I have learned a tiny bit about grading. I am much more picky now and will only buy a great looking coin for the grade. I will pay extra for PQ coins. I have even learned to love toning!

However I still want technically great coins for my RS

have fun,

DMWJR

I think it probably has to do with the addition of set categories. I have a set I am building of Early Proof Lincolns, 1909-1958. This set will soon be put into three different sets: 1909-1916, 1936-1958, and 1909-1942. So without doing anything, the set total is going to go up 2 just because of me.

Doug

gmarguli

When I read Greg's post I get the impression that he is a better grader than PCGS.

Not at all. I'm competent-to-great in some series and I couldn't grade others if my life depended on it. However, I know an ugly coin for any series when I see it.



However I still want technically great coins for my RS

OK, I've decided to join the Registry Set crowd. Look for my Ike set (total 1 coin: 1 1971-D in MS64) to be appearing soon. I can't want to show it off to all my fellow coin collectors. They'll be in awe. I've worked very hard to build this wonderful set. I'm hoping to consign it to Wondercoin for sale in the near future.

I bet PCGS doesn't allow the set or they make me change the name or it.

python1