<< <i>If you don't have the kind of money that you can throw away find something better to do with your money then seek gratification in owning a six figure coin. It amazes me the number of expensive coins that I see purchased and resold not long afterward and then that person is hailed as a true collector. No, what they are is someone with a lot money and who sometimes rely on an expert or dealer to give them the high sign. Some times we even get a great story to go along with the sale of the rented coin (insert sarcasm emoticon) followed by a litany of kudos usually from the dealer who arranged either the front end sale or back end sale. >>
I think a lot of collectors rent their coins.
To the underbidders of this sale, there is always someone that is not as smart with more money willing to raise his hand. You can moan and say the coin was only worth your lower bid. When the next auction rolls around and you lower your bid another 15 percent and lose the coin again....
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Interesting thread, replete with fascinating opinions and theories. J Here’s our take:
While most rare coin prices have dropped a bit from their peak prices of the last few years, they seem to have generally held their value better than most assets. Our anchor consignment, The Joseph C. Thomas Collection, hammered a bit over $21MM (well over $24 million including BP), which was almost exactly the midpoint of the range we had given our consignor, and there is another half-million+ of it consigned to Long Beach, which will lift the total to well above said midpoint.
Our consignor considers himself a pure collector as opposed to an investor or even collector-investor, and simply decided to sell off duplicates (always the lesser ones; the collection still includes the Queller 1804 $1, for example) and a few series that no longer held as much interest for him, largely to be able to buy other coins he preferred to own and to take advantage of some investment opportunities he felt were too lucrative to pass up. Obviously, we're talking about a wealthy individual -- but as we've discovered in the past nine months, even the very rich of this world are being forced into making either/or decisions from time to time.
By the way, it was an 1805 quarter MS66 that sold for $460,000 in FUN 2008, not an 1806. Here is the link:
I’d also like to thank everyone who participated in our CSNS auction. Money is tight these days, but I think many of those who keep buying now may one day look back at this time window with great glee.
Greg
Greg Rohan President HERITAGE AUCTIONS 3500 Maple Avenue Dallas, Texas 75219-3941 Phone: 214-528-3500 / Private fax: 214-409-1596 Email to: Greg@HA.com
I NEVER SAID IT WAS A BLOODBATH ! I had a pisser at the auction ...And Tony Terranova was in Rare Form with his vocabulary Many collectors and dealers got wonderful coins and were very very happy. Mr. Pogue got many of nice coins.Joe O'Connor did very well,and Mr. Nagle also did very well.Tom Bender was happy and so were many collectors I never met.
PLE - I bid on the 1893 in ms 67 red which is a nice coin and I wanted it but it went one bid over my max
The 1899 was absurdly ridiculous.I bid on it and it is a very nice coin but not remotely scarce or rare.It is even common in ms 67 red.
The coins I did not bid on were the 1870,1871,1872,1873,1887 and the 1888. All were misgraded coins by every knowledgeable person.
I agree with Stewart, the 1899 Indian in MS68RD went for way more than it should - this time and in 2003 when it sold for $69K. I liked it much better when I sold it for $14,500 in 1999. But, it is the only MS68RD for the series, and all-there at that, so it is a special coin.
One of the coins I got for myself was the 1887 MS66RD, which was a MS67RD in disguise. Now if PCGS would only agree.
I'll agree with O'Connor in everything he just posted. And I just love how some people post theories and statements that are so ignorant of reality. It was a great auction with lots of amazing rarities that sold without reserve. I think there were some amazing opportunities and while I never take joy in seeing a fellow collector lose money, I appreciate that he let them go in a pure, unreserved fashion. It's a catalogue I'll never throw away.
I was underbidder on four coins - won none which was a bit of a bummer, but flip side is I didn't overpay for anything. So I guess those of you who are saying bloodbath, I need it to fall just a bit more to get into my range .
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
I heard a number of people at the CSNS show taking about this coin as though it was the FUN 2008 coin and guesstimating what it might bring "this time" , when all along it was pretty clear it was a different date.
<< <i>Yup - I was underbidder on 4 coins at bloodbath levels and won none of them. >>
Bloodbath levels is relevant, hell you coulda bought my entire collection, twice, with two of those bids. And the other 2 weren't chump change either. Woulda wished you would have won, i wanted to see some newp pics!
Want to buy an auction catalog for the William Hesslein Sale (December 2, 1926). Thanks to all those who have helped us obtain the others!!!
<< <i>TRADEDOLLARNUT - DO YOU REALLY THINK CAC HAS A BETTER REPUTATION FOR COPPER,SILVER AND GOLD COINS THAN PCGS ?
I HAVE SEEN MANY CAC COINS THAT HAVE BEEN CALLED CACA
STEWART >>
Soooo - when you say a CAC stickered TPG coin is crap, I presume that you're also saying the TPG coin is crap too - after all they graded it first... right?
I think that it can't hurt to have a second expert opinion, Stewart. There's so much being done to coins these days and so much floating out there in holders that a post slabbing screening is a good idea. After all, we don't all have 'magic felt pads' to make every problem go away, now do we?
<< <i>TRADEDOLLARNUT - DO YOU REALLY THINK CAC HAS A BETTER REPUTATION FOR COPPER,SILVER AND GOLD COINS THAN PCGS ?
I HAVE SEEN MANY CAC COINS THAT HAVE BEEN CALLED CACA
STEWART >>
Soooo - when you say a CAC stickered TPG coin is crap, I presume that you're also saying the TPG coin is crap too - after all they graded it first... right?
I think that it can't hurt to have a second expert opinion, Stewart. There's so much being done to coins these days and so much floating out there in holders that a post slabbing screening is a good idea. After all, we don't all have 'magic felt pads' to make every problem go away, now do we? >>
bleeeeeechhh
god i hate "cac". i hate how cac even manages to muck up useful threads.
anyway what i really wanted to say, is, i am very happy w/ the 4 coins i got in the auction.
Only Heritage or the consignor would know the answer to the question about why the collection wasn't CAC'd. But I will offer an edjukated guess. It would seem obvious to me that unless one's name sale collection would largely receive CAC stickers, it could be counter productive to do so. It's the same basic reason why raw collections such as Eliasberg and Pittman didn't get slabbed first. Better to have the bidders assume the highest grades possible to increase the prices realized. This also benefits the dealers/major collectors who can grade accurately and sift out the real coins in the same holders from the also-rans. It only takes 2 bidders (out of dozens or hundreds) thinking a slabbed coin is ok for the grade to make it realize decent money. And that logic works at both ends of the spectrum.....mistakes and sleepers.
<< <i>It would seem obvious to me that unless one's name sale collection would largely receive CAC stickers, it could be counter productive to do so. It's the same basic reason why raw collections such as Eliasberg and Pittman didn't get slabbed first. Better to have the bidders assume the highest grades possible to increase the prices realized. This also benefits the dealers/major collectors who can grade accurately and sift out the real coins in the same holders from the also-rans. It only takes 2 bidders (out of dozens or hundreds) thinking a slabbed coin is ok for the grade to make it realize decent money. And that logic works at both ends of the spectrum.....mistakes and sleepers. >>
this is an INCREDIBLY INSIGHTFUL POST, & 1 everybody should read & think about.
The bulk of the high end coins in his collection didn't need CAC stickers, the people who were bidding on them at the sale have excellent grading skills. I don't think many of them need to rely on CAC or any other entity for them to grade and assign a value to these coins.
<< <i>The bulk of the high end coins in his collection didn't need CAC stickers, the people who were bidding on them at the sale have excellent grading skills. I don't think many of them need to rely on CAC or any other entity for them to grade and assign a value to these coins.
<< <i>The bulk of the high end coins in his collection didn't need CAC stickers, the people who were bidding on them at the sale have excellent grading skills. I don't think many of them need to rely on CAC or any other entity for them to grade and assign a value to these coins.
john>> >>
I DISAGREE.
When I saw that MOST of the collection was NOT CAC stickered, I just assumed the worst and did not even investigate further. I did not want to waste my time hoping for the best. I
When CAC starts stickering 2009 "Lincoln log" cents then, well its the end of the universe as we know it.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Heritage tried CACing an entire auction with the FUN platinum night. It only showed which coins were not acceptable, since everyone knew that all the coins were submitted. They won't be doing that again.
The same goes for collections that are submitted to CAC (or EE Photo Seal) prior to sale. You know which ones failed.
I have changed my mind about CAC approval. I first believed that only the problem Saints( and other gold denominations) needed the 2nd opinion, and perhaps some of the AT silver coins, including bust halves, where I have been seriously collecting for 10 years.
But the sale of my Barber halves, with the MS 67's bringing new record prices, made me realize the benefit of another opinion on high grade coins( as well as potentially problem coins).
I disagreed that some of the halves didn't get the nod, and I have seen in person some other denoms that I would have thought would make the little green bean. overall, the service provided has been beneficial to this industry.
When I saw that MOST of the collection was NOT CAC stickered, I just assumed the worst and did not even investigate further. I did not want to waste my time hoping for the best.
I would second that as well as TahoeDales's last. It's one thing if you were someday reviewing Stewart's coppers for auction where more than likely, the CAC rate would be very high. In the case of Dale's halves a great % of them CAC'd and that was a plus in getting bigger numbers for them in a weak auction market. Those monster toner top pop Barber halves that fetched $50K+ each probably didn't need a CAC sticker but it probably still added thousands to their bottom line.
I agree with roadrunner's and tahoedale's comments.
I would never doubt Stew's or Tahoedale's coins, even without CAC stickers. But when seeing my own rejected formerly owned coins/patterns in the consignor's collection made me back off.
So what was the total for the Joseph C. Thomas collection part one? Before the auction Heritage was estimating its value at 25 million.
Heritage only has the totals up for the entire csns auction of $38,622,354
Its hard to tell the result just looking at several coins out of the 1000+ that the consigner had in the auction. Maybe enough of the coins sold for more than they paid to even things out.
From Legends market report, "Still overall, Heritage did an outstanding job of promoting and marketing the sale and helped the consignor face a only small loss."
CAC SHOULD PUT A CACA STICKERS ON THE COINS IT REJECTED. BIG UGLY STICKERS THAT CAN'T BE PEELED AWAY. THAT WAY ALL OF THE COINS SUBMITTED TO THEM WILL BE STICKERED.
<< <i>Better yet, ETCH into the slab the words "NOT sticker worthy". >>
Yup. And the slab owner then sends it back to NGC / PCGS for reholdering.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>CAC SHOULD PUT A CACA STICKERS ON THE COINS IT REJECTED. BIG UGLY STICKERS THAT CAN'T BE PEELED AWAY. THAT WAY ALL OF THE COINS SUBMITTED TO THEM WILL BE STICKERED.
STEWART >>
they do put a sticker on the ones that dont make it, but people peel it off.
You can look up the cert number to see if it was rejected
<< <i>they do put a sticker on the ones that dont make it, but people peel it off.
You can look up the cert number to see if it was rejected >>
No, they don't. >>
Agree. You can look a coin up to see if it was stickered but they don't list the rejects.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>All I can say is thank goodness I sold everything at FUN 2007!!!!!!
Loos like some categories did fine, however..... >>
I'm not so sure you are categorically correct there. The rare Saints are higher now then when you sold them. I personally will attest to that on 3 of the best of the best.
From Legends market report, "Still overall, Heritage did an outstanding job of promoting and marketing the sale and helped the consignor face a only small loss."
A small loss could be 25-35%, just as a small retail markup could be called 20-35%. It depends on one's perspective. In jewelry and clothing, markups of 5X to 10X cost are pretty common. Those businesses never report an official markup greater than 100% because they use the selling price minus cost (ie cost $10, retail $100 = 90% profit). Technically, a 100% markup in jewelry would be an infinite gain or one with zero orig cost (items either stolen or gifted).
<< <i>So what was the total for the Joseph C. Thomas collection part one? >>
See HeritageGreg post on page 6. >>
"Our anchor consignment, The Joseph C. Thomas Collection, hammered a bit over $21MM (well over $24 million including BP), which was almost exactly the midpoint of the range we had given our consignor, and there is another half-million+ of it consigned to Long Beach, which will lift the total to well above said midpoint."
<< <i>.... The coins I did not bid on were the 1870,1871,1872,1873,1887 and the 1888. All were misgraded coins by every knowledgeable person... Stewart... >>
Thank you, Stewart for sharing your observations, which were very helpful.
I was particularly interested in your comment about the 1872 coin (lot #2074-MS99RED). Apparently, Rick Snow also agrees that it is overgraded. Here's what's interesting about the listing. Heritage calls the coin "Unimprovable". They even have a video calling it "amazing", saying it "dances". In my opinion, Heritage's credibility suffers significantly, as a result.
For collectors who targeted specific coins in the auction, there were some deals to be had. I picked off a very nice coin that the consignor lost money on based on the prior auction records for this specific coin. I plan to hold the coin long-term and so despite whatever market fluctuations we will see in the short- and medium-term, this should be a very nice coin to add to my set and will very likely yield a gain for me down the road when I choose to sell it.
Comments
<< <i>If you don't have the kind of money that you can throw away find something better to do with your money then seek gratification in owning a six figure coin. It amazes me the number of expensive coins that I see purchased and resold not long afterward and then that person is hailed as a true collector. No, what they are is someone with a lot money and who sometimes rely on an expert or dealer to give them the high sign. Some times we even get a great story to go along with the sale of the rented coin (insert sarcasm emoticon) followed by a litany of kudos usually from the dealer who arranged either the front end sale or back end sale. >>
I think a lot of collectors rent their coins.
To the underbidders of this sale, there is always someone that is not as smart with more money willing to raise his hand. You can moan and say the coin was only worth your lower bid. When the next auction rolls around and you lower your bid another 15 percent and lose the coin again....
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
While most rare coin prices have dropped a bit from their peak prices of the last few years, they seem to have generally held their value better than most assets. Our anchor consignment, The Joseph C. Thomas Collection, hammered a bit over $21MM (well over $24 million including BP), which was almost exactly the midpoint of the range we had given our consignor, and there is another half-million+ of it consigned to Long Beach, which will lift the total to well above said midpoint.
Our consignor considers himself a pure collector as opposed to an investor or even collector-investor, and simply decided to sell off duplicates (always the lesser ones; the collection still includes the Queller 1804 $1, for example) and a few series that no longer held as much interest for him, largely to be able to buy other coins he preferred to own and to take advantage of some investment opportunities he felt were too lucrative to pass up. Obviously, we're talking about a wealthy individual -- but as we've discovered in the past nine months, even the very rich of this world are being forced into making either/or decisions from time to time.
By the way, it was an 1805 quarter MS66 that sold for $460,000 in FUN 2008, not an 1806. Here is the link:
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=454&Lot_No=2775&src=pr
I’d also like to thank everyone who participated in our CSNS auction. Money is tight these days, but I think many of those who keep buying now may one day look back at this time window with great glee.
Greg
President
HERITAGE AUCTIONS
3500 Maple Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75219-3941
Phone: 214-528-3500 / Private fax: 214-409-1596
Email to: Greg@HA.com
PS - I underbid a few lots, you're welcome!
PPS - thanks for clearing up the quarter thingy
I NEVER SAID IT WAS A BLOODBATH ! I had a pisser at the auction ...And Tony Terranova was in Rare Form with his vocabulary
Many collectors and dealers got wonderful coins and were very very happy.
Mr. Pogue got many of nice coins.Joe O'Connor did very well,and Mr. Nagle also did very well.Tom Bender was happy and so were many collectors I never met.
PLE - I bid on the 1893 in ms 67 red which is a nice coin and I wanted it but it went one bid over my max
The 1899 was absurdly ridiculous.I bid on it and it is a very nice coin but not remotely scarce or rare.It is even common in ms 67 red.
The coins I did not bid on were the 1870,1871,1872,1873,1887 and the 1888. All were misgraded coins by every knowledgeable person.
Stewart
Hey Greg- Why do you think the show was so DEAD ?
One of the coins I got for myself was the 1887 MS66RD, which was a MS67RD in disguise. Now if PCGS would only agree.
The 1872 was/is (and will always be) a RB.
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
"Ratholing" could be an endangered activity.
But I'd bet on increasing turn if for no other reason than to remain informed on the numis market.
Buy it, turn it, repeat. Like the old days.
Lemme know when it filters down to the bourses. There's STILL a lot of fishing going on.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>By the way, it was an 1805 quarter MS66 that sold for $460,000 in FUN 2008, not an 1806. Here is the link:
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=454&Lot_No=2775&src=pr
Greg >>
Thank you for posting that -
I heard a number of people at the CSNS show taking about this coin as though it was the FUN 2008 coin and guesstimating what it might bring "this time" , when all along it was pretty clear it was a different date.
<< <i>Yup - I was underbidder on 4 coins at bloodbath levels and won none of them.
Bloodbath levels is relevant, hell you coulda bought my entire collection, twice, with two of those bids. And the other 2 weren't chump change either. Woulda wished you would have won, i wanted to see some newp pics!
<< <i>How come not many coins in the Thomas collection were CACed......? >>
I am repeating it because I do not know the answer.
<< <i>Realone asked a question that has still not been answered:
<< <i>How come not many coins in the Thomas collection were CACed......? >>
I am repeating it because I do not know the answer. >>
I heard it was not submitted for review.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
TRADEDOLLARNUT - DO YOU REALLY THINK CAC HAS A BETTER REPUTATION FOR COPPER,SILVER AND GOLD COINS THAN PCGS ?
I HAVE SEEN MANY CAC COINS THAT HAVE BEEN CALLED CACA
STEWART
<< <i>TRADEDOLLARNUT - DO YOU REALLY THINK CAC HAS A BETTER REPUTATION FOR COPPER,SILVER AND GOLD COINS THAN PCGS ?
I HAVE SEEN MANY CAC COINS THAT HAVE BEEN CALLED CACA
STEWART >>
Soooo - when you say a CAC stickered TPG coin is crap, I presume that you're also saying the TPG coin is crap too - after all they graded it first... right?
I think that it can't hurt to have a second expert opinion, Stewart. There's so much being done to coins these days and so much floating out there in holders that a post slabbing screening is a good idea. After all, we don't all have 'magic felt pads' to make every problem go away, now do we?
<< <i>
<< <i>TRADEDOLLARNUT - DO YOU REALLY THINK CAC HAS A BETTER REPUTATION FOR COPPER,SILVER AND GOLD COINS THAN PCGS ?
I HAVE SEEN MANY CAC COINS THAT HAVE BEEN CALLED CACA
STEWART >>
Soooo - when you say a CAC stickered TPG coin is crap, I presume that you're also saying the TPG coin is crap too - after all they graded it first... right?
I think that it can't hurt to have a second expert opinion, Stewart. There's so much being done to coins these days and so much floating out there in holders that a post slabbing screening is a good idea. After all, we don't all have 'magic felt pads' to make every problem go away, now do we?
bleeeeeechhh
god i hate "cac". i hate how cac even manages to muck up useful threads.
anyway what i really wanted to say, is, i am very happy w/ the 4 coins i got in the auction.
K S
<< <i>Well, you hate slabs too - so at least you don't discriminate.
I wonder if he likes escargot, probably not.
<< <i>I wonder if he likes escargot, probably not.
yuk!
K S
roadrunner
<< <i>It would seem obvious to me that unless one's name sale collection would largely receive CAC stickers, it could be counter productive to do so. It's the same basic reason why raw collections such as Eliasberg and Pittman didn't get slabbed first. Better to have the bidders assume the highest grades possible to increase the prices realized. This also benefits the dealers/major collectors who can grade accurately and sift out the real coins in the same holders from the also-rans. It only takes 2 bidders (out of dozens or hundreds) thinking a slabbed coin is ok for the grade to make it realize decent money. And that logic works at both ends of the spectrum.....mistakes and sleepers. >>
this is an INCREDIBLY INSIGHTFUL POST, & 1 everybody should read & think about.
POTY imo
K S
john
<< <i>The bulk of the high end coins in his collection didn't need CAC stickers, the people who were bidding on them at the sale have excellent grading skills. I don't think many of them need to rely on CAC or any other entity for them to grade and assign a value to these coins.
john >>
<< <i>The bulk of the high end coins in his collection didn't need CAC stickers, the people who were bidding on them at the sale have excellent grading skills. I don't think many of them need to rely on CAC or any other entity for them to grade and assign a value to these coins.
john>> >>
I DISAGREE.
When I saw that MOST of the collection was NOT CAC stickered, I just assumed the worst and did not even investigate further. I did not want to waste my time hoping for the best. I
seem to meet my own standards, those coins that
were not given the green wienie by CAC, usually leave something
to be desired. Thus CAC does seems to separate out a lot of garbage, it
by itself does not seem to be foolproof. On the other hand, what
action touched by the hand of man..........is?
Camelot
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
The same goes for collections that are submitted to CAC (or EE Photo Seal) prior to sale. You know which ones failed.
But the sale of my Barber halves, with the MS 67's bringing new record prices, made me realize the benefit of another opinion on high grade coins( as well as potentially problem coins).
I disagreed that some of the halves didn't get the nod, and I have seen in person some other denoms that I would have thought would make the little green bean. overall, the service provided has been beneficial to this industry.
I would second that as well as TahoeDales's last. It's one thing if you were someday reviewing Stewart's coppers for auction where more than likely, the CAC rate would be very high. In the case of Dale's halves a great % of them CAC'd and that was a plus in getting bigger numbers for them in a weak auction market. Those monster toner top pop Barber halves that fetched $50K+ each probably didn't need a CAC sticker but it probably still added thousands to their bottom line.
roadrunner
I would never doubt Stew's or Tahoedale's coins, even without CAC stickers. But when seeing my own rejected formerly owned coins/patterns in the consignor's collection made me back off.
Before the auction Heritage was estimating its value at 25 million.
Heritage only has the totals up for the entire csns auction of $38,622,354
Its hard to tell the result just looking at several coins out of the 1000+ that the consigner had in the auction. Maybe enough of the coins sold for more than they paid to even things out.
From Legends market report,
"Still overall, Heritage did an outstanding job of promoting and marketing the sale and helped the consignor face a only small loss."
<< <i>So what was the total for the Joseph C. Thomas collection part one? >>
See HeritageGreg post on page 6.
CAC SHOULD PUT A CACA STICKERS ON THE COINS IT REJECTED. BIG UGLY STICKERS THAT CAN'T BE PEELED AWAY. THAT WAY ALL OF THE COINS SUBMITTED TO THEM WILL BE STICKERED.
STEWART
<< <i>Better yet, ETCH into the slab the words "NOT sticker worthy".
Yup. And the slab owner then sends it back to NGC / PCGS for reholdering.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>CAC SHOULD PUT A CACA STICKERS ON THE COINS IT REJECTED. BIG UGLY STICKERS THAT CAN'T BE PEELED AWAY. THAT WAY ALL OF THE COINS SUBMITTED TO THEM WILL BE STICKERED.
STEWART >>
they do put a sticker on the ones that dont make it, but people peel it off.
You can look up the cert number to see if it was rejected
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
they do put a sticker on the ones that dont make it, but people peel it off.
You can look up the cert number to see if it was rejected >>
No, they don't.
<< <i>they do put a sticker on the ones that dont make it, but people peel it off.
You can look up the cert number to see if it was rejected >>
No, they don't. >>
Agree. You can look a coin up to see if it was stickered but they don't list the rejects.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>All I can say is thank goodness I sold everything at FUN 2007!!!!!!
Loos like some categories did fine, however..... >>
I'm not so sure you are categorically correct there. The rare Saints are higher now then when you sold them. I personally will attest to that on 3 of the best of the best.
"Still overall, Heritage did an outstanding job of promoting and marketing the sale and helped the consignor face a only small loss."
A small loss could be 25-35%, just as a small retail markup could be called 20-35%. It depends on one's perspective. In jewelry and clothing, markups of 5X to 10X cost are pretty common. Those businesses never report an official markup greater than 100% because they use the selling price minus cost (ie cost $10, retail $100 = 90% profit). Technically, a 100% markup in jewelry would be an infinite gain or one with zero orig cost (items either stolen or gifted).
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>So what was the total for the Joseph C. Thomas collection part one? >>
See HeritageGreg post on page 6. >>
"Our anchor consignment, The Joseph C. Thomas Collection, hammered a bit over $21MM (well over $24 million including BP), which was almost exactly the midpoint of the range we had given our consignor, and there is another half-million+ of it consigned to Long Beach, which will lift the total to well above said midpoint."
Thanks.
<< <i>.... The coins I did not bid on were the 1870,1871,1872,1873,1887 and the 1888. All were misgraded coins by every knowledgeable person... Stewart... >>
Thank you, Stewart for sharing your observations, which were very helpful.
I was particularly interested in your comment about the 1872 coin (lot #2074-MS99RED). Apparently, Rick Snow also agrees that it is overgraded. Here's what's interesting about the listing. Heritage calls the coin "Unimprovable". They even have a video calling it "amazing", saying it "dances". In my opinion, Heritage's credibility suffers significantly, as a result.
Lot #2074--the unimprovable, dancing coin
I wonder how many of us would get a greenie ?
Camelot
> I wonder how many of us would get a greenie ?
Mr. Longacre would get one for sure. I don't know about everyone else