ICG MS67 Morgan?

C0inCollect0r

Hi all,

I know that ICG is far more loose in its grading of very high MS/Proof modern coinage compared to PCGS, but I was just curious as to what you generally make of their "high gem" grading of classic coins - say, hypothetically, an MS67 Morgan Dollar. Would you figure these coins in general to also be overgraded?

Thanks for your time.

boucharda

I would evaluate the coin on its own merits and disregard the label/holder

Broadstruck

<< <i>I would evaluate the coin on its own merits and disregard the label/holder >>





I own a few ICG's that are ultra conservatively graded and have seen others that where not... which can be said about ALL TPG services.

DennisH

Have fun!

C0inCollect0r

I suppose part of my difficulty lies in grading Superb Gems with consistent accuracy based on online photos - I'm just curious in general as to whether I can count on ICG grading to be relatively consistent with PCGS at these high gem levels, or if ICG coins are frequently overgraded.

garsmith

This hypothetical is meaningless without pics

We would need to see the coin to determine if it is over, under or correctly graded. There is no general rule of thumb.

RedTiger

With high grade ICG coins, it is a good idea to check auction archives on Teletrade, Ebay and Heritage and see what they typically trade at. Sometimes there is a huge discount, sometimes a modest one, sometimes little to no discount.

C0inCollect0r

The question is whether there is in fact a general rule of thumb - obviously with modern coinage, it is the "rule" that ICG overgrades in the ultra high grades. My question of whether the rule applies to classic coinage as well. I'm not talking about one coin in particular.

gecko109

<< <i>The question is whether there is in fact a general rule of thumb - obviously with modern coinage, it is the "rule" that ICG overgrades in the ultra high grades. My question of whether the rule applies to classic coinage as well. I'm not talking about one coin in particular. >>




I would assume since PCGS slabbed classic coins consistantly outsell ICG slabbed classics on a grade for grade basis, your answer is obvious.


Edit; This was the "general rule of thumb" answer you asked for. You have to realize that there is always the occasional exception.

C0inCollect0r

I don't know if that's necessarily obvious - of course alot of people are "drinking the Cool-Aid" about PCGS and of course PCGS has a much stronger following and established role in the coin market than ICG. Basically I think there are reasons other than more conservative grading that could cause PCGS coins to realize stronger prices than ICG.

gecko109

<< <i>I don't know if that's necessarily obvious - obviously alot of people are "drinking the Cool-Aid" about PCGS and of course PCGS has a much stronger following and established role in the coin market than ICG. >>




Do some research on Heritage, Teletrade, and even ebay on previous sales between like coins in PCGS plastic and ICG plastic, then report back with your findings.

C0inCollect0r

See my previous post... more conservative grading is not the only reason for higher realized prices obviously.

gecko109

"Basically I think there are reasons other than more conservative grading that could cause PCGS coins to realize stronger prices than ICG. "



The reasons are that PCGS has consistantly done a much better job at what they do than ICG, or just about any other TPG for that matter. Similar to a vehicle, sure a KIA drives nice, is lower priced, and gets you from point A to point B just fine, but most people would rather have the BMW. People pay top dollar for top quality, and PCGS delivers that MOST of the time.

morganbarber

ICG is not a bad outfit and is usually pretty close on grades. If you purchase an ICG MS62 sight unseen and it turns out to only be a 61, no big deal. The MS67 Morgan being one point off (or maybe two) can cost you a fortune.

collegecoincollector

ICG does a good job on circulated coins IMO. Not enough experience yet with mint state ICG coins though but I'd probably say overgraded if I had to guess

RedTiger

<< <i>The question is whether there is in fact a general rule of thumb - obviously with modern coinage, it is the "rule" that ICG overgrades in the ultra high grades. My question of whether the rule applies to classic coinage as well. I'm not talking about one coin in particular. >>



Look at the auction prices realized on the various sites to get an average. Looking at the data will be more powerful than any one person's opinion. If the number of data points is large, data doesn't lie, it isn't Kool-Aid, it is reality. If the coins were close, and the prices wide apart, smart money would buy up the ICG coins cross them, and profit. At MS67 to MS66 the price difference on Morgans is large enough to make that happen.

soty27

Are you refering to the morgan on ebay, icg 67?

karatekid

I sent them 8 raw vintage coins recently in hi grade to ICG. They came back
1 no grade and rest 64 to 67. 2 crossed to pcgs 4 crossed to ngc and 1 didnt cross.
I like thier coins and in the future plan on leaving them in their ICGholders.

TomB

Based upon my observations, when ICG first opened their doors in the late 1990s or early 2000s they were grading along the lines of the grading standards that PCGS and NGC used during their apparently more conservative period of the very early 1990s when it came to gem classic coinage. However, similar to PCGS and NGC, I do not believe that ICG maintained that standard over time for this niche and, if they indeed become somewhat less strict, I would imagine that many of the more conservatively graded coins that have been repeated sold or traded over the years have eventually found themselves removed from the ICG holder.