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Palladium : Credit vs. Pamp with images

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
Mentioned a few days back that I'd ordered some palladium from Gainesville. Got it today.

I'd wanted Pamp to match my gold, but I'm not unhappy with the credit. That said, I don't like the packaging of the credit as much. The pamp holders are sturdy plastic. Kind of like credit card material. And you can easily see both sides of the bars and their corresponding design and info.

The credit packages look a little cleaner. But rather than plastic, they are paper, folded over and sealed. The bar is inside a smaller plastic container which is glued to the inside back of the envelope. A small embossed gold Essayer Fondeur mark on the back is the only real adornment. You can't see the back of the bar itself--not critical but it's a strike against compared to the pamp. I know it's nit-picking, but the pamp bars also identify their weight in troy.

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Size comparison against my only 1 oz silver bar:
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The new family:

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We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cut them out and store them raw, then you won't have the issue anymore image I didn't realize that palladium was more dense than gold...cool.
  • Lovely, I plan to pick up some Palladium myself. I've been looking for Johnson Matthey or Engelhard but have only managed to find one of each, Both priced over $450. Looks Like I'll have to go with Credit or pamp for now. I prefer Credit just b/c I don't care for the fortuna design.

    If you open one of the Credit bars I'd be interested in knowing if it has the repeating logo on the reverse or if its just plain.
    Its all relative
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've been watching all of the Johnson Matthey stillwater palladium rounds on eBay feverishly hoping to get some at a decent price. No luck so far though, they carry a darn hefty premium.
  • I don't care for those myself. I'm looking for the regular type JM, They also carry a hefty premium
    Its all relative
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't care for those myself. I'm looking for the regular type JM, They also carry a hefty premium >>

    Larger I'd imagine. I think when I convince myself to bite the bullet and pay the premium I'll just buy the palladium Canadian Maple Leaf.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The pd is interestingly reflective: A gold pamp reflected in the palladium.

    That stippling is actually part of the surface of the palladium bars. Quite hard to see with the naked eye, but easily visible under a 10x loop. Remember this shot is blown up to And I don't think it's in the plastic.

    image

    And with a white foreground:

    image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭


    << <i> I didn't realize that palladium was more dense than gold...cool. >>



    It's the other way around. Gold is considerably more dense than Pd.

    Not sure why the photos make it look like Pd. is more dense. Probably the Pd bars are much thicker.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,934 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    It's the other way around. Gold is considerably more dense than Pd.

    Not sure why the photos make it look like Pd. is more dense. Probably the Pd bars are much thicker. >>



    Not much thicker. Barely discernible. In your hand they do in fact look smaller. It's been 20 years since I had a 1-oz PT bar, but as I recall it was amusingly smaller than a gold 1 ozer.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231
    The Pd bar should be almost twice the thickness of the Au bar if they were the same length/width. IIRC, Au has a SG of 19.3, and Pd is somewhere near 10. Something just aint right here.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,934 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Pd bar should be almost twice the thickness of the Au bar if they were the same length/width. IIRC, Au has a SG of 19.3, and Pd is somewhere near 10. Something just aint right here. >>



    Half again as thick *if* the length, width, rims and rim thickness were all the same. Trick of packaging, trick of the light.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231


    << <i>

    << <i>The Pd bar should be almost twice the thickness of the Au bar if they were the same length/width. IIRC, Au has a SG of 19.3, and Pd is somewhere near 10. Something just aint right here. >>



    Half again as thick *if* the length, width, rims and rim thickness were all the same. Trick of packaging, trick of the light. >>




    Weiss, you may have nailed it about the upset rims. If the gold bar's rim is even a little higher than the palladium's rim, thats enough to throw all the "visuals" off on determining the actual volume of metal in each bar. And after looking at your photos again, it seems thats whats going on here. Did you get hammered by the premiums on these new bars Weiss?
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spot plus $40 per bar? That's what they're showing now for wire transfer. They take paypal, too.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Spot plus $40 per bar? That's what they're showing now for wire transfer. They take paypal, too. >>



    That's a good price for the one-ouncers. Market average is a little higher.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just watched a really cool show on the Stillwater platinum and palladium mine. They followed the process all the way to when the ore cake is sent from the mine to the Johnson Matthey plant to be fully refined. Then they showed how JM produces the catalitic converter honeycombs infused with the platinum.
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Spot plus $40 per bar? That's what they're showing now for wire transfer. They take paypal, too. >>

    It's up to spot + $60 now.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,297 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A comparison of densities & melting points:

    Gold - Sp.Gr. = 19.3; MP = 1063 deg. C;

    Palladium - Sp.Gr. = 12.0; MP = 1554 deg. C; Brinell hardness = 61

    Platinum - Sp.Gr. = 21.45; MP = 1769 deg. C; Brinell hardness = 97.

    Rhodium - Sp.Gr. = 12.41; MP = 1966 deg. C; harder than Pt or Pd.

    Iridium - Density = 22.65 g/cc; MP = 2443 deg. C (heaviest & most corrosion element known); Brinell hardness = 218.

    I'm waiting for the premiums on palladium to come down, if they ever do. It would be a good hedge on platinum.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • image I've got 210 ounces of Palladium stockpiled at an average price of around $ 200 an ounce. Mostly 10 ounce Credit Suisse bars but also a fair amount of 1 oz. Pamp and Credit Suisse bars along with some Bermuda coins and Stillwater Buffalo coins including a 1/10 oz. Buffalo coin.
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