Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Too many too list so I will just add alittle commentary...
1. Promotions... I never have been happy to see and remain disappointed at the number of promotions of common coins that are marketed only because there seems to be a willing uninformed public that is basically too lazy to say no to such crap.
Wait... it gets better
2. Rarity... I am really tired of the misuse of the word and how it is applied to condition. I feel for those that have been compelled to spend significant money for coins that are truly common
3. PENNY... a correct term across the pond in the UK. CENT is correct on this side... I am not going to loose any sleep over this because its just not that important.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
4. People who tell stories about how they had "time to kill" so they went to the local coin shop and spent 2 hours asking questions and picking through junk boxes, 90% silver, and stock trying to catch the seller sleeping on varieties or underpriced items, but they couldn't find any... and left without buying anything. And they can't figure out why the dealer's miffed.
3. The same person in the example #4 above who comes in the next Monday wanting the dealer to tell him if he got a good deal on all the coins he bought at the coin show that weekend.
2. The same person in the example #4 above who complains that his local dealer went out of business, and can't figure out why.
1. People who can't grasp the concept that dealers are human beings whose business, overhead, investment, and time all have value. >>
These are all valid complaints and I can't blame dealers being annoyed by customers, but customers are the reason why dealers make money and dealers have to suck it up and deal with the bad along with the good.
Rattlers aside , why do TPG companies put some coins into holders that are somewhat rotated and seal them that way . Annoying and looks stupid . They should reholder them at no charge , and cover postage !
<< <i>3. PENNY... a correct term across the pond in the UK. CENT is correct on this side... I am not going to loose any sleep over this because its just not that important. >>
"LOSE" is the correct term on this side of the pond ("loose" is why your pants fall down around your ankles), but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...
<< <i>Rattlers aside , why do TPG companies put some coins into holders that are somewhat rotated and seal them that way . Annoying and looks stupid . They should reholder them at no charge , and cover postage ! >>
Coins rotate in their holders all the time---sometimes while in transit from the grading service. Usually taping the corner on a table will get the coin to rotate back into its proper orientation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Whenever I show someone a coin in a capsule... they always want to open it.
Going to the mint everyday to track an order that I know is not going anywhere... checking the mints product update waiting for the gold/silver eagles.
Opening a new tube of maples/phils -- make that trying to open a new tube... and hearing laughter in the background.
Shopping at the local B&M... when another customer wants to comment on my transaction. Being in the shop, and someone is outside looking very anxious and is waiting to get 'buzzed-in', and there's no where for me to run.
On line dealer web pages that are just smothered with color, motion adds, and adds for all kinds of just plain crap and not a decent coin in any series to be found.
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
Hidden reserves on auctions (e.g. David Lawrence).
To all you "cent" collectors, let me remind you that I had (as many of you did, I'm sure) a "penny book" when I was a kid, and two of my kids have "penny books" too, and they both think that "wheat pennies" are way cool. So in the name of making memories and creating a new generation of collectors, I'm going to stick to "pennies." But I'll try to remember to call them "cents" around you guys .
-Fred
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
<< <i>Someone posted that they hated when dealers advertise "halfs" rather than "halves". I consider this to be his pet peeve. My pet peeve is I hate when coin collectors (who should know better) refer to cents as pennies. They are not pennies---they are cents!!!!!!!! Penny is a slang term used by the uneducated masses and coin collectors should know better than to call them pennies. O.K. What are your coin related pet peeves? Don't hold back---I know you have some. >>
William Shatner - SNL skit at a Trekkie convention several years ago
Oh I hate when during giveaways, that ask why you should win, some one posts about either how they were born that year or how someone who died was born that year so they should get the coin. Most recently on a type B quarter giveaway, I was going to flip out if the guy going to Iraq didnt win and some guy who was boen in 1957 won it. Of course that guy who won it better post a picture of himself with his new lucky coin in iraq.
When trying to sell coins at a show and walking up to a dealer who has a table full of coins priced at full retail PCGS Guide/Trends prices or above, and they whine like a little kid that they can't buy anything from you at even greysheet bid prices cause that's all the coins are worth and that anything more than that wouldn't leave them any room to make money Hard to take that sort of story seriously when looking at their asking prices!!! Fortunately not all of them are like this, but way too many are.
Also, dealers on eBay who take photos of their coins with their dealer pricing codes showing on the slabs... oh wait, I sort of like that
<< <i>When I walk into a coin store and the workers purposely ask the older people if they need help before me even though I was first. I may young but I am actually trying to buy from their store and they are more worried about the people selling their dad's collection, assorted spare gold bullion, or helping some old lady find the perfect ASE for her grandchild's birthday. >>
I walked into a dealer looking for black eagle dollars after calling and told they had a large selection to look thru, only to be told in person they would have to get them out of the safe and couldnt do it now, because some old guy walked in with a hoard of slabbed eagles and the dealer was more concerned with offering 10% below spot for the batch. I was a warm day in Fort Lauderhill Fl that day.
Jerk dealers. I test a dealer who is new to me sometimes. Once a dealer had a bin of fake chinese dollars-SO-I asked him if they were real--His answer-"I don't know". I guess he was hoping that some suckers would buy a few thinking that they may be genuine.--NOT me. I will never be a customer of his.
Bad lighting at some cases at coin shows.
Dealers leaving their cases for hours at shows while they stroll the floor-leaving the uninformed wife or son or daughter to answer questions that they cannot answer.
XF+++! Booming cartwheel luster! Should have graded higher! BU! CAC! Just honest wear! (What the h--- is dishonest wear?) Lightly cleaned long ago! You can count the teeth in the buffalo! Actually, I've never seen the last one but expect to. That's all I can come up with right now. JT
It is health that is real wealth, not pieces of gold and silver. Gandhi.
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Hidden reserves on auctions (e.g. David Lawrence).
To all you "cent" collectors, let me remind you that I had (as many of you did, I'm sure) a "penny book" when I was a kid, and two of my kids have "penny books" too, and they both think that "wheat pennies" are way cool. So in the name of making memories and creating a new generation of collectors, I'm going to stick to "pennies." But I'll try to remember to call them "cents" around you guys .
-Fred >>
............seems to make 'cents'
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
<< <i>Someone posted that they hated when dealers advertise "halfs" rather than "halves". I consider this to be his pet peeve. My pet peeve is I hate when coin collectors (who should know better) refer to cents as pennies. They are not pennies---they are cents!!!!!!!! Penny is a slang term used by the uneducated masses and coin collectors should know better than to call them pennies. O.K. What are your coin related pet peeves? Don't hold back---I know you have some. >>
The British refer to their cents as Pennies, if I'm not mistaken.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
<< <i>Dip and people who destroy coins with it. >>
I also dislike people who downplay the problems of a coin when you're looking to buy... but dwell on them when you're selling. I circumvent this by walking away from problem coins...
Also... getting the "cold-shoulder"... please just at least acknowledge my existence by saying "hello"
Ebay sellers who have multiples of a single coin and advertise... "This is a representative of the coin you will receive". It's the classic "Bait-n-Switch"
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
<< <i>I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business. >>
Gee, and people can't figure out why dealers have issues with some buyers...you think guys with attitudes like this are the reason perhaps?
<< <i> My pet peeve is I hate when coin collectors (who should know better) refer to cents as pennies.
I don't consider myself a coin collector much less a numismatist (such an ostentatious word) so it's probably alright that I call cents pennies so I hope I get a pass....
>>
If that "penny" is such a pet peeve, I will be glad to take her off your hands...I will call her a cent, penny or lump of copper as long as she can make her home with Billet7.
As many may have noticed, I have an ample nunber of pet peeves and really turn to coins largely to escape them.
But there are a couple things that rile me with coins. First is the way dealers will manhandle collectible coins. I'm more gentle with my poc- ket change than some dealers are with old gold. Second is whatever manufacturer it was who put a little layer of glue on the outside of their 2 x 2 vinyl holders. They stick in vinyl pages and even when stacked.
Biggest one has always been make me an offer or when you go to a coin shop looking for a certain type of coins you say I'm looking fore a nice higher end coin and they show you fine to very fine grade commons. VF is good on older or rarer coins but commons
Founder of the NDCCA. *WAM Count : 025. *NDCCA Database Count : 2,610. *You suck 6/24/10. In memory of Tiggar 5/21/1994 - 5/28/2010
<< <i>I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business. >>
I wouldn't like it if a dealer pumps me from behind either.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
My pet peeve is going to a dealers website and seeing a beat up dipped, nicked, scratched gold coin being advertised as original skinned and beautiful for the grade.
<< <i>Am I the only one who finds the use of the letter P when there is no P distasteful? >>
A 1946-S quarter is ALSO a 1946 quarter but NEVER a 1946-P quarter. 1946-(P) should probably be used. >>
I understand your argument but I think one should not add phantom mintmarks that do not exist on the coin in question. Since we know that US coins without mintamarks are Philadelphia issues, there is no need to say anything more. Thus, a 1946 quarter can never be a 1946-S. I think date and mintmark should be used exclusively to describe the appearance of the coin, not necessarily the year in which the coin was minted. As we well know, the year on the coin does not always reflect the year of manufacture. To speak of a 1946-P quarter suggests a mintmark in the same way that a 1945-P nickel does. I find it inaccurate.
<< <i>I hate that they put seats in front of the displays at our local shows. There's always someone with stuff spread out over half the table so I can't browse. >>
okay filthy broke nailed it for me...
I always ask in a loud voice "are you here to sell coins?...are you a dealer?....where's yer stuff?"
<< <i>I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business. >>
I wouldn't like it if a dealer pumps me from behind either. >>
It's part of the coin buying experience with many coin dealers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>telephoto1---Are you a dealer by any chance?
Someone can list the top ten buyer's pet peeves now.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>What are your numismatic / coin related pet peeves? >>
One of mine is when someone posts a specific question here in the forum and a guy who doesn't know anything at all about the topic tries to answer it.
1. Promotions... I never have been happy to see and remain disappointed at the number of promotions of common coins that are marketed only because there seems to be a willing uninformed public that is basically too lazy to say no to such crap.
Wait... it gets better
2. Rarity... I am really tired of the misuse of the word and how it is applied to condition. I feel for those that have been compelled to spend significant money for coins that are truly common
3. PENNY... a correct term across the pond in the UK. CENT is correct on this side... I am not going to loose any sleep over this because its just not that important.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
4. People who tell stories about how they had "time to kill" so they went to the local coin shop and spent 2 hours asking questions and picking through junk boxes, 90% silver, and stock trying to catch the seller sleeping on varieties or underpriced items, but they couldn't find any... and left without buying anything. And they can't figure out why the dealer's miffed.
3. The same person in the example #4 above who comes in the next Monday wanting the dealer to tell him if he got a good deal on all the coins he bought at the coin show that weekend.
2. The same person in the example #4 above who complains that his local dealer went out of business, and can't figure out why.
1. People who can't grasp the concept that dealers are human beings whose business, overhead, investment, and time all have value. >>
These are all valid complaints and I can't blame dealers being annoyed by customers, but customers are the reason why dealers make money and dealers have to suck it up and deal with the bad along with the good.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
somewhat rotated and seal them that way . Annoying and looks stupid . They should
reholder them at no charge , and cover postage !
<< <i>3. PENNY... a correct term across the pond in the UK. CENT is correct on this side... I am not going to loose any sleep over this because its just not that important. >>
"LOSE" is the correct term on this side of the pond ("loose" is why your pants fall down around your ankles), but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...
<< <i>Rattlers aside , why do TPG companies put some coins into holders that are
somewhat rotated and seal them that way . Annoying and looks stupid . They should
reholder them at no charge , and cover postage ! >>
Coins rotate in their holders all the time---sometimes while in transit from the grading service. Usually taping the corner on a table will get the coin to rotate back into its proper orientation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Going to the mint everyday to track an order that I know is not going anywhere... checking the mints product update waiting for the gold/silver eagles.
Opening a new tube of maples/phils -- make that trying to open a new tube... and hearing laughter in the background.
Shopping at the local B&M... when another customer wants to comment on my transaction. Being in the shop, and someone is outside looking very anxious and is waiting to get 'buzzed-in', and there's no where for me to run.
Ebay jealousy.
WS
To all you "cent" collectors, let me remind you that I had (as many of you did, I'm sure) a "penny book" when I was a kid, and two of my kids have "penny books" too, and they both think that "wheat pennies" are way cool. So in the name of making memories and creating a new generation of collectors, I'm going to stick to "pennies." But I'll try to remember to call them "cents" around you guys
-Fred
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
<< <i>Someone posted that they hated when dealers advertise "halfs" rather than "halves". I consider this to be his pet peeve. My pet peeve is I hate when coin collectors (who should know better) refer to cents as pennies. They are not pennies---they are cents!!!!!!!! Penny is a slang term used by the uneducated masses and coin collectors should know better than to call them pennies. O.K. What are your coin related pet peeves? Don't hold back---I know you have some.
William Shatner - SNL skit at a Trekkie convention several years ago
If this is the biggest thing you have to be annoyed about, you have a charmed life.
<< <i>
1. People who can't grasp the concept that dealers are human beings whose business, overhead, investment, and time all have value. >>
Can you please provide proof that more than 10 percent of dealers actually have a human soul within them?
<< <i>Collectors who think anything modern is "junk" >>
They are only temporarily junk.
My pet peeve is price gouging dealers who are successful and get to drive Vipers.
Also, dealers on eBay who take photos of their coins with their dealer pricing codes showing on the slabs... oh wait, I sort of like that
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>When I walk into a coin store and the workers purposely ask the older people if they need help before me even though I was first. I may young but I am actually trying to buy from their store and they are more worried about the people selling their dad's collection, assorted spare gold bullion, or helping some old lady find the perfect ASE for her grandchild's birthday. >>
I walked into a dealer looking for black eagle dollars after calling and told they had a large selection to look thru, only to be told in person they would have to get them out of the safe and couldnt do it now, because some old guy walked in with a hoard of slabbed eagles and the dealer was more concerned with offering 10% below spot for the batch. I was a warm day in Fort Lauderhill Fl that day.
Jerk dealers. I test a dealer who is new to me sometimes. Once a dealer had a bin of fake chinese dollars-SO-I asked him if they were real--His answer-"I don't know". I guess he was hoping that some suckers would buy a few thinking that they may be genuine.--NOT me. I will never be a customer of his.
Bad lighting at some cases at coin shows.
Dealers leaving their cases for hours at shows while they stroll the floor-leaving the uninformed wife or son or daughter to answer questions that they cannot answer.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>Scratched slabs. >>
Yeah, that SUX. Those cloudy blurry ones are even worse. You ever see the way some dealers handle em?
CAC! Just honest wear! (What the h--- is dishonest wear?)
Lightly cleaned long ago! You can count the teeth in the buffalo!
Actually, I've never seen the last one but expect to.
That's all I can come up with right now.
JT
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
<< <i>Snooty Numismatists
What about Numismatic Dandies?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Hidden reserves on auctions (e.g. David Lawrence).
To all you "cent" collectors, let me remind you that I had (as many of you did, I'm sure) a "penny book" when I was a kid, and two of my kids have "penny books" too, and they both think that "wheat pennies" are way cool. So in the name of making memories and creating a new generation of collectors, I'm going to stick to "pennies." But I'll try to remember to call them "cents" around you guys
-Fred >>
............seems to make 'cents'
<< <i>Someone posted that they hated when dealers advertise "halfs" rather than "halves". I consider this to be his pet peeve. My pet peeve is I hate when coin collectors (who should know better) refer to cents as pennies. They are not pennies---they are cents!!!!!!!! Penny is a slang term used by the uneducated masses and coin collectors should know better than to call them pennies. O.K. What are your coin related pet peeves? Don't hold back---I know you have some.
The British refer to their cents as Pennies, if I'm not mistaken.
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business.
<< <i>Dip and people who destroy coins with it. >>
I also dislike people who downplay the problems of a coin when you're looking to buy... but dwell on them when you're selling. I circumvent this by walking away from problem coins...
Also... getting the "cold-shoulder"... please just at least acknowledge my existence by saying "hello"
Ebay sellers who have multiples of a single coin and advertise... "This is a representative of the coin you will receive". It's the classic "Bait-n-Switch"
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
LQQK
<< <i>Am I the only one who finds the use of the letter P when there is no P distasteful? >>
Oh, the humanity!
<< <i>I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business. >>
Gee, and people can't figure out why dealers have issues with some buyers...you think guys with attitudes like this are the reason perhaps?
(PS. How do you even know he was a dealer?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i> My pet peeve is I hate when coin collectors (who should know better) refer to cents as pennies.
I don't consider myself a coin collector much less a numismatist (such an ostentatious word) so it's probably alright that I call cents pennies
so I hope I get a pass....
If that "penny" is such a pet peeve, I will be glad to take her off your hands...I will call her a cent, penny or lump of copper as long as she can make her home with Billet7.
and really turn to coins largely to escape them.
But there are a couple things that rile me with coins. First is the way
dealers will manhandle collectible coins. I'm more gentle with my poc-
ket change than some dealers are with old gold. Second is whatever
manufacturer it was who put a little layer of glue on the outside of
their 2 x 2 vinyl holders. They stick in vinyl pages and even when
stacked.
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>Am I the only one who finds the use of the letter P when there is no P distasteful? >>
A 1946-S quarter is ALSO a 1946 quarter but NEVER a 1946-P quarter. 1946-(P) should probably be used.
<< <i>
(PS. How do you even know he was a dealer?
You could be correct. He may have been disguised as one. And those chiding me to pay full price--those were the dealers.
<< <i>I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business. >>
I wouldn't like it if a dealer pumps me from behind either.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>Am I the only one who finds the use of the letter P when there is no P distasteful? >>
A 1946-S quarter is ALSO a 1946 quarter but NEVER a 1946-P quarter. 1946-(P) should probably be used. >>
I understand your argument but I think one should not add phantom mintmarks that do not exist on the coin in question. Since we know that US coins without mintamarks are Philadelphia issues, there is no need to say anything more. Thus, a 1946 quarter can never be a 1946-S. I think date and mintmark should be used exclusively to describe the appearance of the coin, not necessarily the year in which the coin was minted. As we well know, the year on the coin does not always reflect the year of manufacture. To speak of a 1946-P quarter suggests a mintmark in the same way that a 1945-P nickel does. I find it inaccurate.
<< <i>I hate that they put seats in front of the displays at our local shows. There's always someone with stuff spread out over half the table so I can't browse. >>
okay filthy broke nailed it for me...
I always ask in a loud voice "are you here to sell coins?...are you a dealer?....where's yer stuff?"
<< <i>
<< <i>I hate when a dealer wearing a black leather jacker walks down an aisle on the bourse and rudely pumps into me from behind and then doesn't say a thing and has his smug ugly nose up in the air. FO!
I also hate when others on the board side with the dealer/seller on a coin I'm trying to bid on and try to tell me there's something wrong with not paying full price on a coin for sale. Please mind your own F'n business. >>
I wouldn't like it if a dealer pumps me from behind either.
It's part of the coin buying experience with many coin dealers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire