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Frankies - Tough Date Toners
Ronyahski
Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭✭✭
Let's see some hard date to find Franklin toners!
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
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No tough date toners here
<< <i>I love that 50 D! >>
Yeah, me too!
Here's the only one I have that's not late 50s...
<< <i>Beautiful '52
Thanks! Just remembered that I sold this '49 at a show recently (not really sure why...)
https://www.ebay.com/mys/active
Toned Coins for sale @ tonedcointrader.com
Here are some that have kinda unusual toning for their date.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
Since it's 2009 here are some from 1959.
Normally I would have considered the toning on the P mint to be AT if I had seen it on a Frankie. However, certain 1959 Frankies when they tone slowly and naturally will develop a linear pattern underlying the toning, which is noticeable here, so my best guess is that this is indeed NT. It is a case of becoming very familiar with the series.
U.S. Type Set
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>Love the '59 Skyman! I've always liked that linear type toning. >>
Agreed! Thanks for sharing, SkyMan.
frnklnlvr, that fingerprint on the reverse of the '63 has real character, as do all of the coins you posted.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>Love the '59 Skyman! I've always liked that linear type toning. >>
Agreed! Thanks for sharing, SkyMan.
frnklnlvr, that fingerprint on the reverse of the '63 has real character, as do all of the coins you posted. >>
I usually don't like fingerprints but I love the look of that coin.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
the 50-D's above are as good as it get's .
The second one i`m sure has no rival and is the tuffest color coin to find in the 48 - 58 era .
It is unquestionably , without a doubt -
the most beautiful 50-D you are likely to ever see ;
for as long as you shall live ,
So help me God , amen ........
When he posts a pix of a date from his #1 set , you are seeing (piece for piece) the finest toned Mint State Franklin set in all the world .
I thank him for sharing with us such special coins.
<< <i>
unusual for a 55?? >>
yes , unusual in that I kick myself every time I see it .....and regret strongly ever selling it
<< <i>
yes , unusual in that I kick myself every time I see it .....and regret strongly ever selling it >>
sorry
https://www.ebay.com/mys/active
<< <i>
<< <i>
yes , unusual in that I kick myself every time I see it .....and regret strongly ever selling it >>
sorry
....but thats a good thing - that you got it and know it's special !
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
i`m ready for a rainbow 49-D
<< <i>glad you pointed it out - some pix of " not so tuff date's" have slipped thru ........
i`m ready for a rainbow 49-D >>
Not a classic rainbow, but will this do?
U.S. Type Set
I am suffering from Sy envy
<< <i>What dates are considered tough to find with toning and why is this? >>
The number one factor has to be the lack of existence of double mint sets for those dates. That brings the years 1950, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, and 1963 to the top of the list for years that make finding nicely toned coins more difficult. Some of these dates are easier to find with nice toning, such as the 63 and 63-D and 59 and 59-D ( not that they are 'easy'). Trying to rank the toughest to find is a challenge, mainly because they are so tough to find to begin with and are hard to put into any order, but if I had to pick the top five, they would be 1950-D, 1960-D, 1962, 1961-D, and tie 1960 and 1961.
Next has to be the method of manufacture of the coins at the different mints. The fact that the 1950-D, 1949-D, 1951-D, 1948-D, and 1952-D (pretty much in that order) are the most difficult to find nicely toned raises the question as to why that is so.
The easiest to find, either because of the method of manufacture, or something to do with the packaging in the double mint set holders are, in order, the years 1958, 1956, 1957, 1955, and 1954.
It would be an interesting research project to look into the minting and packaging process during the time Franklins were produced. I live near D.C. and Philadelphia and started some basic research into the archive records of the mint. I corresponded with RWB for some help and although he didn't give much hope about finding enough detailed records to formulate any conclusions, I plan at some point to continue with the project.
<< <i>Les, that's a sweet lookin' '63-D!
<< <i>glad you pointed it out - some pix of " not so tuff date's" have slipped thru ........
i`m ready for a rainbow 49-D >>
Not a classic rainbow, but will this do?
classic enough for me ; get it out of that NGC holder and into PCGS plastic and you will have a 49-D that rivals most anything out there......
even in the NGC holder - it's a work of art
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
OHHHHHHH LUUUUUUUCCCCCCCYYYYYYYYY!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>What dates are considered tough to find with toning and why is this? >>
The number one factor has to be the lack of existence of double mint sets for those dates. That brings the years 1950, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, and 1963 to the top of the list for years that make finding nicely toned coins more difficult. Some of these dates are easier to find with nice toning, such as the 63 and 63-D and 59 and 59-D ( not that they are 'easy'). Trying to rank the toughest to find is a challenge, mainly because they are so tough to find to begin with and are hard to put into any order, but if I had to pick the top five, they would be 1950-D, 1960-D, 1962, 1961-D, and tie 1960 and 1961.
Next has to be the method of manufacture of the coins at the different mints. The fact that the 1950-D, 1949-D, 1951-D, 1948-D, and 1952-D (pretty much in that order) are the most difficult to find nicely toned raises the question as to why that is so.
The easiest to find, either because of the method of manufacture, or something to do with the packaging in the double mint set holders are, in order, the years 1958, 1956, 1957, 1955, and 1954.
It would be an interesting research project to look into the minting and packaging process during the time Franklins were produced. I live near D.C. and Philadelphia and started some basic research into the archive records of the mint. I corresponded with RWB for some help and although he didn't give much hope about finding enough detailed records to formulate any conclusions, I plan at some point to continue with the project. >>
I put the 1959-1963 coins into their own sub-category; there is no way any of these P or D 's will ever be as easy to find with the classic mint set tone that the government issued cardboard produced.
End roll tone and envelope tone are all you can hope for if you want potential rainbow colorization ; album tone is too light
for my taste.
Then you got your potpourri of A.T. stuff in holders for 1959 -1963 as well
If your talking rainbow like examples - my list would be : 1950-D , 1949-D , 1951-D , 1948-D,1953-D , 1954-D and 1952-D ;
WITH THE 59-D , 60-D , and 59-P topping the "sub" dates
and I would rank easy are the years 1957 , 1958 , 1956 , .....for rainbows I would leave 1955 and 1954 off the list
But we each have are own opinions .........none more correct or wrong then another
On Yahaski's list I would remove the 60-P and replace it with 62-D.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
The LAST four I needed to complete my set were (in order) the '50-D, '61-D, '62-D and '60-D. Obviously part of this is luck of the draw as to when you see something. Technically I still need the '60-D as my set is theoretically MS65 or better, and I JUST bought an MS64... of course, it's the best looking toner '60-D I've seen in a LONG time. Realistically also the '61-D is NOT IMO a true 65 even though it's slabbed as such by NGC... it's more like a 64. Of course, this just leaves room for upgrading.
U.S. Type Set
Bushmaster - Can't really argue with you that the 62-D is a tough date to find nicely toned. If I were to pick the next date as the next toughest, the 62-D would be it. Just shows you there are many later dates that are next to impossible to find with nice color.
PawPaul - I agree with you that the 50-D is the toughest of them all, and the rest of your rankings are pretty dang close to mine. Yes, the 50-D in the first post is the coin out of my #1 set, a 66FBL, and the next best one I have ever seen next to it is the pic just before. I'd love to see another 50-D rainbow toner, never have.
The Pug posted here his Franklin series analysis by date, a great contribution to these boards. I recently put up four 50-Ds in 66FBL on his 1950-D post to add some 'color' to his posts, with some additional analysis of color by date, and keep his posts updated. It's getting years later to remember well, but I believe three of the coins I posted are among the first five ever graded 66FBL by PCGS. I owned the other two and sold them years ago for $11,000 each (oh, the good ole days of Frankies!) Hopefully some of you will go to the Pug's posts and revisit them. I'm working on pics for 1951, the next date, and will post them as well to the Pug's series.
Now that's what I am talking about.....you know how much I love that 1959 Sy
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>What about the 62-D?
On Yahaski's list I would remove the 60-P and replace it with 62-D. >>
........I have seen a few 62-D's (and own 2 ) that are quite colorful ;
i have only seen a couple of the 1960 and own not a one ........... (that's got monster color )
it could be said as well that if your talking strictly FBL specimens - that changes the whole analysis;
I am considering each date irregardless of having bell lines or not
The LAST four I needed to complete my set were (in order) the '50-D, '61-D, '62-D and '60-D.
.....interesting .......... Tomaska has in the past few years put up for sale a couple of Monster toned 60-D's .
In fact they have been the subject of a couple threads here ........
you know , the ones that got their amazing toning from being near a coal mine in Montana or somthin' like that
your taste in colorful Franklin's is very refined Skyman , and even though you've got extremely deep pockets to boot ...........
you may never find a 50-D that even approaches your expectations .......
<< <i>The LAST four I needed to complete my set were (in order) the '50-D, '61-D, '62-D and '60-D.
.....interesting .......... Tomaska has in the past few years put up for sale a couple of Monster toned 60-D's .
In fact they have been the subject of a couple threads here ........
you know , the ones that got their amazing toning from being near a coal mine in Montana or somthin' like that
your taste in colorful Franklin's is very refined Skyman , and even though you've got extremely deep pockets to boot ...........
you may never find a 50-D that even approaches your expectations ....... >>
Paul,
Yes, I know that Rick has had that '60-D up for sale several times over the last several years. Let's just say I've seen 2 of the 3 "sulfur mining town" coins (I'm pretty sure the '60-D was one of them) and have my reservations.
Late last year I actually downgraded my '62-D toning wise (and IMO technically) because I was concerned that it's color was AT. It was an NGC MS65FBL that was very clean for the grade and had semi-prooflike surfaces, and I switched to a PCGS MS65FBL (which was certainly not as clean technically, much less the semi-prooflike surface) because I was sure that the PCGS coin was NT and I had serious reservations about the NGC coin.
As to extremely deep pockets, I guess it's all relative. One of the reasons I like to collect toner Frankies is that you can get a really attractive, hard to find coin, for 3 figures. Here's my '50-D, (PCGS MS65FBL). I got it off FleaBay for $350. Needless to say, I was quite pleasantly surprised when I got it in hand. I have no current intention of upgrading it. There are about 6-8 date/mm in my set I would like to upgrade either toning wise, technically or both, but the '50-D is not one of them.
EDITED TO ADD: The bell lines are more distinct than the image shows.
U.S. Type Set
Nothin' wrong with that 50-D at all! A coin I would proudly own.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
colorful 60,61, and 62 "D" mints you've been looking for .