Is Neil Armstrong a rick with a P?
RonBurgundy
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Since 1994, Armstrong has refused all requests for autographs, after he found that his signed items were selling for large amounts of money and that many forgeries are in circulation. Often items reach prices of US$1,000 on auction sites like eBay. Signed photographs of the Apollo 11 crew can sell for $5,000. Any requests sent to him receive a form letter in reply saying that he has stopped signing. Although his no-autograph policy is well-known, author Andrew Smith observed people at the 2002 Reno Air Races still try to get signatures, with one person even claiming, "If you shove something close enough in front of his face, he'll sign."[65] Along with autographs, he has stopped sending out congratulatory letters to new Eagle Scouts. The reason is that he thinks these letters should come from people who know the Scout personally.[66]
Usage of Armstrong's name, image, and famous quote has caused him problems over the years. He sued Hallmark Cards in 1994 after they used his name and a recording of "one small step" quote in a Christmas ornament without permission. The lawsuit was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount of money which Armstrong donated to Purdue. The case caused Armstrong and NASA to be more careful about the usage of astronaut names, photographs and recordings, and to whom he has granted permission. For non-profit and government public-service announcements, he will usually give permission.
In May 2005 Armstrong became involved in an unusual legal battle with his barber of 20 years, Marx Sizemore. After cutting Armstrong's hair, Sizemore sold some of it to a collector for $3,000 without Armstrong's knowledge or permission. Armstrong threatened legal action unless the barber returned the hair or donated the proceeds to a charity of Armstrong's choosing. Sizemore, unable to get the hair back, decided to donate the proceeds to the charity of Armstrong's choice.[67]
Usage of Armstrong's name, image, and famous quote has caused him problems over the years. He sued Hallmark Cards in 1994 after they used his name and a recording of "one small step" quote in a Christmas ornament without permission. The lawsuit was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount of money which Armstrong donated to Purdue. The case caused Armstrong and NASA to be more careful about the usage of astronaut names, photographs and recordings, and to whom he has granted permission. For non-profit and government public-service announcements, he will usually give permission.
In May 2005 Armstrong became involved in an unusual legal battle with his barber of 20 years, Marx Sizemore. After cutting Armstrong's hair, Sizemore sold some of it to a collector for $3,000 without Armstrong's knowledge or permission. Armstrong threatened legal action unless the barber returned the hair or donated the proceeds to a charity of Armstrong's choosing. Sizemore, unable to get the hair back, decided to donate the proceeds to the charity of Armstrong's choice.[67]
Ron Burgundy
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For the smart atty's out there...what is the difference between picking hair up off of the floor of my business and selling it vs. digging it out of trash can on a public street and selling it? Think the barber should have fought this one. Once he authorized the barber to remove said hair from head, anything that lands on the business floor becomes said property of business owner.
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<< <i>This doesn't sound like any of the stories I've heard about Johnny Bench, YAZ, or Mays. Seems to be me Armstrong is just PO'd about how he's been marketed and has taken some harsh steps to stop it. I don't get the sense that it's about personal gain here. >>
He gives the money to Purdue so that +1 for him
Contrast with John Glenn, who is one of the most gracious people you would ever meet.
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Autographs and invasion of privacy in perpetuity were not part of the job. I can't blame him- it's obvious he doesn't want or need to profit personally, and when there is profit he directs it to the university.
Nasa has Buzz Aldrin as their prime showman, and he does a great job at that. I can't see calling Neil Armstrong a p#%$ just because he's not interested in being a frontman the rest of his life.
I can see calling Willie Mays or Johnny Bench that for taking the money whenever the chance arises and treating people like crap.
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<< <i>I am putting together a collection of the autos of the 12 men who have walked on the moon, in books that they have written. I wrote Mr. Armstrong a few years ago and received the standard form letter back. Now that I have the other 11 books signed, I'm going to write him again, include a photo of the other books, and try to convince his assistant that I am not a profiteer, but a collector. Maybe I'll have good luck. I think that getting past his assistant who goes through the mail is the key. >>
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I agree it's a real drag for collectors, but remember as far as anyone else is concerned, your collection is about you, not them. If they chose not to participate in your hobby I can respect that.
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<< <i>It sounds like he just doesn't want/need the attention, and would prefer not to have it. He did the job he was given, and did it well. Perhaps he'd just like to let his accomplishment speak for itself.
I agree it's a real drag for collectors, but remember as far as anyone else is concerned, your collection is about you, not them. If they chose not to participate in your hobby I can respect that. >>
When they came to Neil in 1969 and asked, he had to know that it would follow him for the rest of his life.
If he hates it so much, why not ask for a $300 or $500 donation to the university. If he put some real autographs out there, the price would drop on ebay and the people looking for a quick profit would not find it such easy money. The university could use the donations.
p.s. bring back the open forum
As for the barber he could have fought it, he chose not to.
Steve
I don't have a problem with what Armstrong is doing.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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Seriously I don't think the article shows poorly on him. After awhile it has to get old.
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I wish you success but the reality is you probably aren't going to get it that way, and this is coming from a guy that likes to take risks in sending nice items out to get signed. I understand you might want to try anyway since it's only an unsigned book at this point. Neil used to be a good TTM signer 30 years ago but the time has passed for that.
This is a piece that I would love to own, but I won't buy it because Neil won't finish it off. It's a signed lithograph of the 12 moonwalkers that 11 have signed. It was a joint project done by the astronauts, and them and their families are the ones that receive the proceeds from it and Neil wouldn't be a part of it, and WILL NOT sign them, period. If he's not willing to help his fellow astronauts and their families, I doubt seriously if anyone has much of a chance to get him.
I might eventually break down and buy one of these anyway, as no one has a complete one unless Neil bought one and signed his own, and I wouldn't put that past him. It's an awesome lithograph and comes with individual photos of all the astronauts signing,
Here's a cut and paste from the firm that markets it:
"There's a long, long story behind this one. Simply, this print was first begun in 1986, but out-lived three of the signees before it even became available to the public. It emerged from years of litigation and false starts, and now the signing astronauts have specifically asked Novaspace to finally give it the exposure it deserves. The late Jim Irwin was the first to sign, and 10 other moonwalkers have added their autographs over the years. All 6 lunar landings are represented. A total of ELEVEN moonwalkers have signed this print: Buzz Aldrin, Pete Conrad, Alan Bean, Alan Shepard, Edgar Mitchell, Jim Irwin, Dave Scott, Charlie Duke, John Young, Gene Cernan and Jack Schmitt. All unquestionably authentic. The signing astronauts OWN this edition and Novaspace is the ONLY place you can get one.
The remaining moonwalker - Neil Armstrong, quit signing over 10 years ago, so this is considered complete. If he did sign, the price would be unreachable to all but the very rich. This print measures an enormous 25x31, and framed it is 33x39. It was painted by artist Ron Lewis, in an edition of 1000, signed and numbered. It is printed on acid-free, very heavy stock in pristine condition, despite being handled repeatedly over nearly 20 years. They were even shipped to us in custom-made, locked metal crates! Each portrait was done from the astronaut's NASA WSS (white space suit) portrait, and beside each bust is a little vignette of the astronaut in action, doing something unique to him on the moon (Conrad with Surveyor, Shepard's chip shot...) It makes a nice, large, displayable vehicle for these historic signatures.
Remember: Signers Conrad, Shepard and Irwin have left Earth permanently, so nothing like this will ever be possible again. Each print comes with an unchallenged certificate of authenticity."
They are priced at $3195.00 which would be an absolute bargain if it included Neil and to me is still a decent price considering the signers. I was considering buying one last year when I started my HOF signed rookie collection but instead started with a vengeance on the signed rookies.
Mike
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Many of you made a good point that he is not seeking to profit himself as he donated court settlements to Purdue or other non-profits. I can respect that.
It would be nice if he can find a way to reach out on his own terms. To stop signing completely is disappointing.
He has a lot of potential to do some fund raising for a university or other non-profit if he decides to start signing again, but this time for a fee that he can donate.
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I have seen that multi-signed piece before and love it. But, the $3000+ price has steered me away! But, it is a beauty!
How stupid is this? I thought once your hair is cut, it's pretty much
garbage as that's what it is. They sweep it away and it goes into the trash.
So if the garbageman decides to sell a milk carton that Armstrong drank from,
will he be sued too?
But that's his choice. It is what it is, right? Probably easier to just make a blanket statement saying he won't sign, than to have to go through each piece one-by-one and decide what is "worthy". And then hear people complain that their item wasn't chosen.
As far as the barber, I'd be p'd too if I were Neil. That's just a weird invasion of privacy. It IS like going through your trash and selling it. I doubt he cared because of the hair or money. He was probably just mad that someone he figured to be a friend would go behind his back like that to make a profit.
At least he donates money to good charities when appropriate. More than we can say for a lot of celebrities.
Anyone can sue anyone for just about any reason. In this case Armstrong threatened to sue.
The barber could have fought it. He chose not too.
Steve
IMO the people that won't sign any longer could care less if the person asking is a collector
or a re seller. Sooner or later the collectors autos will be sold.
I don't see the difference.
Steve
I kind of want one now.
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<< <i>Regarding the hair dispute....I can see in the not so far future, that cloning technology will reach a point of refinement so that one can clone an individual with a small sample of blood, tissue or hair follicles. If I had minor surgery, I do not want the small amount of blood that I lose to be used for cloning purposes without my permission even though its biological waste at that point. Since Neil Armstrong is a famous person of good merit, some women might be interested in having his clone implanted into them. If Armstrong ever had to get a blood panel for a routine check up, hypothetically, some of it can be used for DNA extraction and eventual cloning. Even though he gets his lab results, it does not give the lab the right to use his extra material to create a life or sell it for that purpose in order to get some profit. See where I am going with this??? >>
Since we never went to the moon, I doubt we'll seriously ever be able to do this....
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<< <i>I don't understand why people idolize astronauts. It takes amazing talent to hit a baseball. What kind of talent does it take to get strapped on top of a giant bottle rocket? >>
I don't realy idolize anyone anymore (did in my youth, but as I got older I realized that even great superstars in all fields were only human), but I do admire moonwalkers for the following reasons:
They are relatively intelligent. (the brightest of their field)
They have a love for what they do and often make a lifetime career out of it or related fields, an intense loyalty to their job as a whole that I admire.
It takes a great deal of bravado I believe, to allow yourself to get strapped on top of a giant bottle rocket.
They do things that others can only dream about doing. (for example at least at baseball, generally all of us can hit a ball with a little practice and hand/eye coordination, so we at least experience the same basics as we see on TV, but we will never experience the G forces or ever come close to being in outer space, or walking on the moon (like astronauts)
They are in a much more exclusive club than most ballplayers ( only 12 Americans EVER have been moonwalkers, compared to thousands and thousands of big league ballplayers.)
Their is much more intrigue about them then with pro athletes due to their exclusivety. (I have played ball with, had friends of, shared meals with, etc., plenty of pro athletes, but NO astronauts)
Anyways, that's a few quick reasons off the top of my head although it doesn't address your "talent" question.
-Paul
He's a huge space collector and knows most of all of those that have walked on the moon or been in the Apollo, Gemini and Mercury programs.
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Over the past ten years I've been very lucky to have gotten to know most of the astronauts of the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo generation, many of which I see several times each year, and to a man (Buzz might grumble a bit however) they all have nothing but respect and admiration for Neil Armstrong. Contrary to the stereotype, he is not a recluse and leads a very active business life as a member of many corporate boards and university affiliations. He is very generous with his time, especially when it comes to engineering ventures. He has also stepped forward to serve on the commissions that have investigated shuttle accidents and other less visible space and aerospace related matters.
It is true that NASA and some politicians would have liked him to be more of a public person when it came to promoting NASA and spaceflight, but PR is most definitely NOT his style. He is genuinely humble, reserved, and doesn't feel he deserves the adulation, and like many other astronauts still finds it hard to believe that people would pay for his autograph. That might strike many as naive, but its an attitude shared by many of his contemporaries, with the notable exception of Buzz. Mr. Armstrong is NOT a bitter man - he considers himself to be an extremely fortunate person, and that comes from people who know him well.
Collectors are not very high on his priority list, and to that I say more power to him (and that's coming from an experienced and avid collector of space material). I can understand the frustration of those who may feel otherwise, but it helps to understand the makeup of these guys to understand why they feel the way they do. I might also point out that when he was assigned to command the prime crew of 11, it was by no means assured that he would be doing the first landing - everything had to fall into place perfectly for that to happen, and besides, he had no control over the crew selection process, which was run by Deke Slayton. Had any of the earlier Apollo missions failed to accomplish their objective, it would have been tried again on the next flight, and would have been very possible for Armstrong to have never walked on the moon at all.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope it made some sense.
Do you know why he didn't participate in the lithograph pictured above? If so, could you share why?
Thanks,
Mike
<< <i>I first want to thank Griff for the head's up on this thread. These days I'm a full time grad student (again) and it essentially rules my every waking moment, so the boards have been a casualty.
Over the past ten years I've been very lucky to have gotten to know most of the astronauts of the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo generation, many of which I see several times each year, and to a man (Buzz might grumble a bit however) they all have nothing but respect and admiration for Neil Armstrong. Contrary to the stereotype, he is not a recluse and leads a very active business life as a member of many corporate boards and university affiliations. He is very generous with his time, especially when it comes to engineering ventures. He has also stepped forward to serve on the commissions that have investigated shuttle accidents and other less visible space and aerospace related matters.
It is true that NASA and some politicians would have liked him to be more of a public person when it came to promoting NASA and spaceflight, but PR is most definitely NOT his style. He is genuinely humble, reserved, and doesn't feel he deserves the adulation, and like many other astronauts still finds it hard to believe that people would pay for his autograph. That might strike many as naive, but its an attitude shared by many of his contemporaries, with the notable exception of Buzz. Mr. Armstrong is NOT a bitter man - he considers himself to be an extremely fortunate person, and that comes from people who know him well.
Collectors are not very high on his priority list, and to that I say more power to him (and that's coming from an experienced and avid collector of space material). I can understand the frustration of those who may feel otherwise, but it helps to understand the makeup of these guys to understand why they feel the way they do. I might also point out that when he was assigned to command the prime crew of 11, it was by no means assured that he would be doing the first landing - everything had to fall into place perfectly for that to happen, and besides, he had no control over the crew selection process, which was run by Deke Slayton. Had any of the earlier Apollo missions failed to accomplish their objective, it would have been tried again on the next flight, and would have been very possible for Armstrong to have never walked on the moon at all.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope it made some sense. >>
great read - thanks for sharing that
I know Kim and Sally Poor, who own Novaspace and they are good and trustworthy folks. The signatures on that (and there are many floating around out there) item were all obtained individually, one at a time, over a period of time. They might have approached Armstrong directly about it, and if they did I'm sure his office sent out the standard reply. Nothing specifically against this piece, it's just that it falls into the general category of what Mr. Armstrong is trying to avoid.
I've only had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Armstrong once, and the one thing we didn't talk about was Apollo XI. I was actually more interested in his almost tragic Gemini 8 flight, and then we chatted a little about the University of Cincinnati basketball program.
First, almost all were either WW2 or Korean War combat pilots, with kills to their credit.
Second, they were almost all test pilots in the 1950's, when the death rate was about 25%.
Third, are all highly educated people, with advanced degrees.
And of course, they had the bravery to be willing to fly a rocket that might explode on national TV.
So let's sum it up: War heroes, serving Uncle Sam in a dangerous experimental program that advanced national security, exceptionally well educated guys who were also willing - eager - to participate in a program that could (and did for some) get them killed in the interests of patriotism and science. I've had my pilot's license for 20 years, and despite that have only a general understanding of the kind of talent it takes to tame an experimental or new aircraft and walk away to tell the tale. In baseball if you can't hit the curve, at least you don't have to worry about who is going to pay for your funeral.
Works for me.
Mike (or anyone else) - if you want to write these guys for TTM purposes, where do you do so?
Ron
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