Silver bullion/bar price info wanted

1jester

Since I'm completely new at this, I don't know where to look for price guides on bars. Where do I find such info? How much should I bid on these bars? How popular are art bars? How long have they been produced? How strong is their following? Mainly I'm talking about 1 ounce or smaller denominations/weights. Are there any particularly desirable producers (I've seen Johnson Matthey touted here) or refiners or banks? How can you tell how old they are? I've seen some with serial numbers and some without, even from the same manufacturer.

Basically, any information would be appreciated to lead me in the right direction with my new-found addiction.

Cladiator

I don't know where to look for price guides on bars. Where do I find such info? There are a couple reference books out there and usually available on eBay. Check closed eBay auctions to get a handle on what things are selling for also.

How much should I bid on these bars? Depends, bid only what you are comfortable spending.

How popular are art bars? Some are not at all, some extremely and most kind of in the middel. I know, lame answer but it's true.

How long have they been produced? Silver bars in general?.....looooooooooooong time. Art bars specifically?.....I believe in the 70's they got really popular.

How strong is their following? Fair to midlin...

Mainly I'm talking about 1 ounce or smaller denominations/weights. Are there any particularly desirable producers (I've seen Johnson Matthey touted here) or refiners or banks? Totally personal preference. Name brand, respected producers are Johnson Matthey, Engelhard, Credit Suisse, Pamp Suisse, Apmex, A-Mark, NWT, Sunshine, Silvertown, OPM, JPM...this list could go on and on.

How can you tell how old they are? Other than having a date or being in one of the reference books I've no idea.

I've seen some with serial numbers and some without, even from the same manufacturer. There's a dizzying variety of bars, even bars in the same weight from the same manufacturer often come in incredible amount of design types.

1jester

Thanks, Cladiator. I've been reading up on what I can find on google, so it's a start. I guess I have a long way to go!

cars

Hey, I'm not alone after all.

Unfortunately there is not much information out there on silver bars. There are a few "price Guides" most referenced is the Archie Kidd silver art bar guide book Volumes 1-6. These books are decent as they show a lot of pictures, mintage numbers, date produced, Varieties and they assign a crude rarity value. The majority of the bars in the book do not contain all of this information. There are also a Ton of bars that are not even listed in these books. I have quite a few that are not listed. There are only a few Under 1 oz bars listed in these books & The guides themselves can be hard to find and Expensive. I recently picked up vol 4, 5 & 6. 4&5 were around $125 and took a while to find. You can get Vol 6 for $40 any day of the week on eBay and believe it or not it was the best one for my reference. I purchased the books, Scanned each page and resold them. Now I have a reference right on my CPU. The "book Value" Assigned in these publications are Way off most of the time. I recently purchased a Johnson Matthey 1 oz bar with a listed value of $20/over spot for $95. Best way to find FMV is check completed items on eBay. Some bars are Very rare and you will not find them there. I will pay whatever it takes to win them at auction if I need them b/c it could be years before another shows up and who wants to wait years to save a few bucks?

I have gathered a wealth of information just from being a collector. The Credit Suisse 20 Gram bars you were speaking of, I have 4 different varieties of that bar. They exist on the 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 500 Gram bars as well. The price guides only shows one variety of the 5 Gram bar.

As for knowing the year produced, That guide book will tell you some of them but Not all. It seems those books focus on the "art bars". I collect Commercial bars from different refiners & mints and Rarely is there any published info on these. I've yet to see a year or mintage # for a Johnson Matthey or Engelhard bar. You can assume that Most were produced in 1973, Few before and more after. 1969 Foster's Silver eagle art bar is considered to be one of the very first art bars produced. In case you mentioned where some of the bars have serials and some don't, You can presume bars without numbers were produced before the bars with numbers. Also it would be presumed that the more intricate the design, The later it was produced.

Suisse bars are very popular and often realize prices between $40-$65, This would include Pamp suisse, Credit Suisse, Valcambi Suisse, ect. Engelhard & Johnson Matthey, USVI, are also very popular and demand a nifty premium.

Here is a page from one of the Archie kidd books to give you an idea of how they work:

Cladiator

Dude, I want one of those JML-6's

cars

me too lol, I have the 1 oz version

mkman123

I think this is a JML6, got it in a trade this month.

cars

pm'd

Cladiator

mkman, if cars don't buy it I will.

cars

If its for sale you can bet I will buy it , Need it for my JM stash

1jester

Thanks for the info, cars! I figured that the bars without numbers predated those with them. Too bad that nobody has any idea when any of these bars were made; it seems that a serial number would be able to be traced to a specific year, at least. Companies didn't keep any records of their manufacture? Is the collector base too small to be able to ascertain such information?

Who produced most of the art bars? Some have producers incorporated into their designs (or on the reverse), but I see in the pictures you scanned that some companies like JM minted bars for other commercial enterprises. How does one know if a famous producer made a particular art (or commercial) bar?

Meltdown

Cladiator summed it up pretty well earlier. There were 100's of art bar makers in the 70's and 80's and very little today as far as reference guides to who made what, when and where. The Archie Kidd guide books are about the most information you will find in one place.