MOSH Retires Vintage Football Card Collection!

bxb

Did a double take on this, not sure I'm seeing things right, but check this out:

MOSH Retires

wolfbear

Good. More nice cards for the rest of us ....

otwcards

Yeah, a certain intervention will cause that . . .

Publius

<< <i>Yeah, a certain intervention will cause that . . . >>



Couldnt have happened to a nicer guy IMHO


www.


"The indictment seeks forfeiture of Ohle’s home in Wilmette, Ill., Ohle’s condominium in New Orleans and Ohle’s sports memorabilia collection."


Rick Snyder at Mint state is handling the yard sale if anyone is interested, contact info below

www.mintstateinc.com

jradke4

bummer dude

cyots82

I remember reading a thread about MOSH. Who is he, did anyone ever find out a name and who he is in the world. I just heard he had DEEP pockets when it came to his collection.

recbball

I just checked my set registry page and I went up a spot in just about every football set I own, lol.

jackstraw

What happend? Indictment?

Stingray

Check this out:


LINK

gregm13

Holy cr*p! How has this not been discussed on the boards yet? If so, I completely missed it! I'm a CPA/tax manager and I know that the IRS has been cracking down the past few years on promoters of tax shelters. As a matter of fact, several partners at KPMG (I think...if not, then PWC) were recently convicted for jail terms of 10+ years. If he's guilty, then selling his sets will be the least of his worries.

I knew that Rick was selling a huge collection, but I had no idea it was MOSH's. Very interesting.

Rgs,

Greg M.

JasP24

His NFL HOF RCs set hasn't been retired yet, but should be soon.

I want to add my new additions..

Jason

rbdjr1

<< <i>Check this out: LINK >>


Does this legal action have anything to do with Mosh/Museum of Sports History/JSJD Trust Registry Sets?

rd









Neil Young & Crazy Horse - Hey Hey My My

gregm13

<< <i>

<< <i>Check this out: LINK >>


Does this legal action have anything to do with Moshe/Museum of Sports History/JSJD Trust Registry Sets?

rd >>



No - the complaint alleges that he was promoting illegal tax shelters while working for a large bank (not sure which one). I'm sure that he's selling his sets to pay for legal expenses.

I wonder how many of his cards were bought from money earned from the sale of the tax shelters....

Rgs,

Greg M.

Davemri

Whatya get Jason? Did you regain some of your cards you sold him?

I took a look at the set but they are too high of grade for my set. I may see what crumbs are left and go from there.


Dave

JasP24

<< <i>Whatya get Jason? Did you regain some of your cards you sold him?

I took a look at the set but they are too high of grade for my set. I may see what crumbs are left and go from there.


Dave >>



Actually I did..The 1948 Leaf George Connor I'm getting from him used to be my card. When i got the scan from Rick and went and looked through my old scans and there it was, same card, same cert from back in 2003..lol

Jason

jayhawke

<< <i>Actually I did..The 1948 Leaf George Connor I'm getting from him used to be my card. When i got the scan from Rick and went and looked through my old scans and there it was, same card, same cert from back in 2003..lol >>



Are you paying more or less than what your sold it to him?

PoppaJ

<< <i>I remember reading a thread about MOSH. Who is he, did anyone ever find out a name and who he is in the world. I just heard he had DEEP pockets when it came to his collection. >>



//////////////////////////

Deep Pockets from the pants of others maybe???

JasP24

<< <i>

<< <i>Actually I did..The 1948 Leaf George Connor I'm getting from him used to be my card. When i got the scan from Rick and went and looked through my old scans and there it was, same card, same cert from back in 2003..lol >>



Are you paying more or less than what your sold it to him? >>



Hard to say. We did a big cash/trade package deal back in 2004 or 2005 which involved multiple cards from each of side. I got a great deal back when I made it, otherwise I never would have traded away a bunch of my 1948 Leaf cards. My 33 Thorpe PSA 7 (now a 7.5), a couple of my Chicle 7's, plus numerous others in my current collection were cards I received back from MOSH in 04-05.

I paid a very fair price for the Connor 7 though. There were others that I wanted, one of which being my former PSA 7 1948 Leaf Luckman which was also part of that deal, but the asking price was just too high for me.

Jason

jackstraw

Yikes

GOODLIEU

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Check this out: LINK >>


Does this legal action have anything to do with Moshe/Museum of Sports History/JSJD Trust Registry Sets?

rd >>



No - the complaint alleges that he was promoting illegal tax shelters while working for a large bank (not sure which one). I'm sure that he's selling his sets to pay for legal expenses.

I wonder how many of his cards were bought from money earned from the sale of the tax shelters....

Rgs,

Greg M. >>



The complaint also states that the Goverment is looking to secure his large sports card collection. He better hope he doesn't dig himself a even deeper hole with the Feds by dumping his collection ASAP, they do not play around when it comes to these white collar types of crimes

bxb

More of a legal question, but since the indictment from the US Attorney's office is dated November 2008 and seeks "forfeiture of sports memorabilia collection", might any items purchased by any of us from his collection after this date be subject to confiscation if he is found guilty?

nike24801

<< <i>More of a legal question, but since the indictment from the US Attorney's office is dated November 2008 and seeks "forfeiture of Ohle's (aka MOSH) sports memorabilia collection", might any items purchased by any of us from his collection after this date be subject to confiscation if he is found guilty?

Or is it legal for him to sell off as much of his stuff as possible ASAP and then if convicted forfeit a much smaller sports memorabilia collection?

Food for thought. >>



Perhaps a lawyer to answer the legal question? Hmmm....well, regardless of what the indictment or complaint or whatever "seeks", until they have an order from the court for him to turn over the cards or an injunction preventing him from selling, trasnferring, hypothecating, etc., etc., etc. any of the cards, they are his to do with as he pleases. As long as he sells them for "fair market value in money or money's worth", he is basically doing the liquidation for them, saving them the work. Now of course if he uses those funds to pay attorney's fees then too bad for them, but again, until they get something from the court, they are his cards.

As far as anyone buying from MOSH (through Rick Snyder of MINTState, Inc., who may be contacted at MINTState@msn.com, 630-365-9790 or through the MINTState webiste at www.mintstateinc.com <----shameless plug), they would be what is called a "good faith purchaser for value". This means that you are giving fair market value consideration for the cards and do not have any actual or constructive knowledge that the cards are not the property of the seller, so you should be in the clear.

DISCLAIMER: This post is for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide a legal opinion regarding the legal consequences of any proposed or contenplated agreement or course of action. Reading this post does not establish an attorney-client relationship between the poster and the reader. The reader is encouraged to seek an opinion from his or her own legal counsel prior to entering into any agreement to purchase any of the sports cards referred to herein.

Jasen

rbdjr1

<< <i>As far as anyone buying from MOSH (through Rick Snyder of MINTState, Inc., who may be contacted at MINTState@msn.com, 630-365-9790 or through the MINTState website at www.mintstateinc.com <----shameless plug), they would be what is called a "good faith purchaser for value". This means that you are giving fair market value consideration for the cards and do not have any actual or constructive knowledge that the cards are not the property of the seller, so you should be in the clear. Jasen >>


Folks that sold off and received money from Madoff's "ponzi scheme" hedge fund; those investors may have to return those funds. None had, as you say, "any actual or constructive knowledge" about an alledged Madoff fraud.

Plus you write a disclaimer, that you are not giving legal advice, well you know. You state, "we should be in the clear". I guess you are saying that is an opinion, not legal advice? Then why do you need a legal disclaimer?

Now that I know that possible "registry cards" from MOSH, may be up for sale at Mint State Inc:

1. I/we do have knowledge (whether "actual, constructive" or not), that these cards belonged to MOSH's registry sets.

2. And we have knowledge that "mass liquidation" of valuable PSA sets are/have been taking place by MOSH.

3. And he is specifically named, it seems in a legal action, of possible "multi-million dollar" fraud/tax schemes.

4. A rational, prudent individual knowing the minimal information provided in this thread (and via links), can be expected to "connect the dots"!

Ok, never mind, I still know nothing! (yes, it was a "shameless plug! LOL!)

rd

P.S. At least "MOSH" still has their #3 all-time 1961 Nu-Card football set (mostly all PSA 9s!). PSA 9s, currently do not bring too much "scratch" on the market, so I guess MOSH & company decided, not to liquidate them yet?

The U.S. Government seeks MOSH's "sports memorabilia" collection. And you think with this "knowledge in hand" you should be expressing your opinion (legal or otherwise), that's its OK, as "we should be in the clear" if we buy their items, even through a third party?







Neil Young & Crazy Horse - Hey Hey My My

nike24801

The key language is the that government "seeks" MOSH's collection. Nowhere have I read nor heard that the government has SEIZED or GARNISHED the collection, or any other such terminology indicating that the cards no longer belong to him. So long as they do, they are his to sell and there is no argument to be made against anyone who purchases his cards for full value. If someone were to buy his '51 Topps Magic Vic Janowicz PSA 8 for $100, that is clearly below fair market value and can be attacked as a fraudulent conveyance. However, I paid market value for the cards I bought from him (again, through Rick Snyder, MINTState@msn.com), so there is no legal argument that I helped him conceal assets or otherwise hinder or delay any collection efforts.

In short, the question is not whether you have knowledge of any pending legal action, the question is whether you have knowledge that the assets no longer belong to him b/c they have been seized. Until I have that knowledge, Rick has my wantlist and email address.

Jasen

NickM

The U.S. government wants cash, not football cards. The proceeds of sale of the collection are just as subject to asset forfeiture as the collection itself.
It's not the same as getting money out of a Ponzi scheme.

Nick

Lothar52

FavreFan1971

If you are so dam nervous about it,

BUY IT

CRACK IT

RESUB IT

In the clear.

WinPitcher

Rick Snyder at Mint state is handling the yard sale if anyone is interested, contact info below





No thanks.


Steve

nike24801

It looks like some of MOSH's stuff has hit eBay. Check out some of the stuff that has sold, Tiger stuff appears to be going fast. Good timing with the Masters this weekend. Even for those who don't buy anything, we are witnessing the breakup of one of the most spectacular collections of our time (at least for me, I'm a football guy). Thorpe & Grange 8s, Clark & Hinkle 8s, the '52 Bowman large 9's....some of this stuff is just unbelievable!

Jasen

shagrotn77

That '63 Nitschke 9 is gorgeous. I didn't expect it to last long. Anyone here win it?

ejguru

FWIW, some his ssb collection is in the upcoming Heritage.....including a PSA/DNA 8 GC Alexander..........WOOF!

rbdjr1

this should pay for a few hours of legal fees:

rd

yakbigham

That Tarkenton is unbelievable and has to be one of the nicest 62 Tarks out there.
I bought the 63 Nitschke, for a card that you can't find centered in any shape I just couldn't resist. I can't wait to get that card in my hand to see if its a nice as the scan.

JasP24

<< <i>That Tarkenton is unbelievable and has to be one of the nicest 62 Tarks out there.
I bought the 63 Nitschke, for a card that you can't find centered in any shape I just couldn't resist. I can't wait to get that card in my hand to see if its a nice as the scan. >>



WOW..Very nice addition Dan..That Nitschke was just ridiculous for a 63 Topps card..Congrats!

Jason

MBMiller25

Don't bend over in the shower!

rbdjr1

<< <i>That Tarkenton is unbelievable and has to be one of the nicest 62 Tarks out there.
I bought the 63 Nitschke, for a card that you can't find centered in any shape I just couldn't resist. I can't wait to get that card in my hand to see if its a nice as the scan. >>


Can you post the scan of the Nitschke when you get it, if it is indeed as nice as the scan? What an exciting card!

rd

gregmo32

"Mr. Gorbachev... Tear down this wall!"

MBMiller25

In all seriousness, I am surprised this is not getting more attention. This is the destruction of one of the great Football/Basketball collections.

recbball

I would have given him a ride to the Mexican border for some of his collection.

JasP24

<< <i>In all seriousness, I am surprised this is not getting more attention. This is the destruction of one of the great Football/Basketball collections. >>



Destruction?? I'd say it's more a re-distribution of wealth...lol

Seriously though, some of the cards are so high end and so expensive, the buying market for those cards is very small. All of the affordable ones will probably sell like hot cakes, but the super expensive ones might have a hard time finding a home in the near future. Unless some new big time buyers enter the fray, or the prices come down.

All of the football cards were offered privately to most, if not all, of the top 50-100 (at least) football collectors prior to heading to ebay. The fact that they are still available probably means they will be available for some time. It was/is inevitable that all of our collections will end up in someone elses hands. I mean unless you plan on being buried with your cards...

Jason

BigDaddyBowman

No doubt Jason, most of what is offered right now is so high end and expensive, that us regular guys can't even sniff them. Boy I would love to have the sport kings and chicles he has up now...in my dreams I guess.

recbball

I'm waiting for the trickle down.
Once the big fish upgrade their cards, I'll bid on their down grades.
And yes Jason I'm going to be buried with all my cards.

Davalillo

Actually most of his hockey and basketball collection was sold some time ago.

I am sad about this. Here is a collector that was probably on the verge of being in the Hall of Fame and now he has to break up what was an unbelievable football card collection.

It reduces by one the number of collectors(very very few--is it just me?) who broadly collect 1948-70 football. I suppose I should be happy that Mike's rankings will have me on top in the 1948-59 and 1960s categories but with Fuzz not collecting anymore, MOSH departing and Artie and Mike less visible it feels a lot different....and not good.

jradke4

i would not be too sad if he did what he was charged with.

shouldabeena10

<< <i>but with Fuzz not collecting anymore, MOSH departing and Artie and Mike less visible it feels a lot different....and not good. >>



Hey JimboLillo,

If it would make you feel better, I could submit some of these raw sets I've been building and strip about 4 or 5 of them medals from round your neck ... just for old time sake.

Mike

Publius

Im waiting to get some more money together so I can buy his 88 topps set

Honestly, this is sad to see probably THE largest football card collection, and probably the second best quality collection (DC being #1) go away. MOSH has been the high water mark alot of collectors aim for, and he's also been the guy thats so easy to dislike for reasons to numerous to list.

If he did was he is accused of, he got what is coming to him. We all gotta pay taxes, if we didnt, Jasp would be out of a job

Too many cards in his collection for any one person to tackle. Years to build, moments to tear it down. I would love his 35 chicle set, some of his 48 leaf set, his 61 fleer set is awesome, 57 topps set is way up there, and of course the coveted 88 topps MOSH collection.

joe

theczar

I am sad about this. Here is a collector that was probably on the verge of being in the Hall of Fame and now he has to break up what was an unbelievable football card collection.
It reduces by one the number of collectors(very very few--is it just me?) who broadly collect 1948-70 football. I suppose I should be happy that Mike's rankings will have me on top in the 1948-59 and 1960s categories but with Fuzz not collecting anymore, MOSH departing and Artie and Mike less visible it feels a lot different....and not good.

i politely disagree. there may not be as many titans in the collecting world, but these cards are not being thrown in the dumpster. they will be going to good homes with people who have a lot of discretionary cash to spend.

so instead of four or five people dominating the registry there are now 25 people with smaller niches.

add that to the fact that more cards are still being found to get graded and the circle of life continues.

if you have had to bid big bucks in the past to keep up with these monster wallets of people like MOSH it is relief to build a quality set for less money. all one has to do is see what happens when Mr. Spence starts moving into your registry neighborhood to see what happens to prices.

nike24801

Although I try not to make a habit of it, I have to agree with Joe on at least one point. IF (<--capitalized for emphasis) he indeed built his collection with money that should have gone to taxes, it created an uneven playing field for the rest of us (See steroids, baseball, etc.). I could build a much more substantial collection much more quickly if my tax money could instead go towards cards with the rest of you still paying yours to Uncle Sam.

Nevertheless, I also agree with Jason that it's a good opportunity to redistribute some of what MOSH has amassed to other collections, and I'm happy to do my part in that regard. As far as trickle-down goes, REC, I don't think I could sell to you...you're the next one on the HOF registry I need to pass!

Jasen

Davemri

<< <i>I'm waiting for the trickle down. >>



I'm not sure you will get as much of a trickle down as you may expect... Mosh wanted lesser grade cards in return for his cards, thus creating less dups..



<< <i>As far as trickle-down goes, REC, I don't think I could sell to you...you're the next one on the HOF registry I need to pass!
>>



I guess you're not selling to me either huh? I'm sure you will pass me sooner rather than later.


Dave

Davalillo

Mike,

Good to hear from you. I'm sure I'll get over sense of disappointment. Why not get those cards graded and sell some to me?

Maybe if Mike Thomas publishes the updated standings it will make me feel better.

Dav

rbdjr1

I'm buying 10 "power ball" lotto tickets ($10.00) (for Wednesday nite!)

Winner gets millions!

If I win I'll buy everything MOSH!

Then I will donate $100K or so worth of MOSH's football cards, to run "thread contests" to beat all contests!


rd


You never know?