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Just got 100% screwed by PayPal
Allen
Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
I followed all the rules. Sold an item for $250+. The buyer did not respond for 11 days and then paid after I relisted the item. He then filed an item not received claim the very next day. I shipped priority mail with signature confirmation, the item arrives and he changes the claim to item significantly not as described. He emails me 50 times asking me to call him or give him my phone number. I provide all the information and he provided a bunch of fictional and insane information and paypal rules in his favor. Paypal rules in his favor and say he gets a refund if he sends the item back. So today I get a signature confirmation package with a few common cards. I filed an appeal with PayPal, but they reversed the payment to him and I have to appeal PayPal to get my money from them. I think this may be the end of my eBay and PayPal days, I guess I should be glad it was $250 and not $5,000.
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<< <i>I followed all the rules. Sold an item for $250+. The buyer did not respond for 11 days and then paid after I relisted the item. He then filed an item not received claim the very next day. I shipped priority mail with signature confirmation, the item arrives and he changes the claim to item significantly not as described. He emails me 50 times asking me to call him or give him my phone number. I provide all the information and he provided a bunch of fictional and insane information and paypal rules in his favor. Paypal rules in his favor and say he gets a refund if he sends the item back. So today I get a signature confirmation package with a few common cards. I filed an appeal with PayPal, but they reversed the payment to him and I have to appeal PayPal to get my money from them. I think this may be the end of my eBay and PayPal days, I guess I should be glad it was $250 and not $5,000. >>
What a loathsome POS buyer.
Ripken, Brooks & Frank Robinson, Old Orioles, Sweet Spot Autos, older Redskins - Riggins, Sonny, Baugh etc and anything that catches my eye.
My ghetto sportscard webpage...All Scans - No Lists!!! Stinky Linky
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
You will likely need a series of supervisors to solve it.
If PP gives you any carp, go to the San Jose BBB site
and file a claim. (You can FAX them photos and additional
proofs.)
PP has a room full of creatures issuing "courtesy refunds"
to sellers, based on BBB complaints about CRIMINAL SCUM
mailing back "rocks and phone books" instead of the computer
they "bought" and filed FRAUDULENT SNADs on.
PP needs to be sued on the issue. Some young lawyer could
snag a few million on the FAST settlement. It's a slam dunk.
........
Earlier today there was a thread about the perils of trying to
rehab EBAY deals that go south at the front end. (That one
was about a buyer getting burned.)
Under NO circumstances is it safe to EVER ship an item to
a NPB who finally pays.
I would refund immediately, if an NPB paid. They are SNADs
waiting to happen.
The ONLY reason to file a NPB is to get the FVFs back.
Why would I do biznez with a piece of subhuman garbage
that failed to pay me without an NPB filing?
...........
Allen, you should also fill out the fraud forms at USPS
before you finalize your appeal at PP.
You should also file your story at
www.ic3.gov
They work on a cumulative complaint basis. If the SCUM
is a serial offender, they will eventually nail him.
//////////////////////////
My Registry Sets
WOW!
Put me down for 2 small losses ($25 & $50)...
Sorry to read about your loss, Allen... I just use eBay to buy now, no more selling (use this board instead).
Mike
Allen,
You need to send the details of this scam to the CEO of ebay. Let them know what is going on, and honest sellers on ebay are getting ripped-off via "fictional buyer scams".
You must take the time to report this, and maybe you will get satisfaction, and maybe a refund?
Sometimes intervention needs to come from the top!
rd
Good luck!
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
/////////////////////
No harm in reminding JD that he is at the helm of
the largest ongoing RICO-enterprise in the history
of the world.
But, keep in mind, he ALREADY knows it.
a NPB who finally pays.
I would refund immediately, if an NPB paid. They are SNADs
waiting to happen.
The ONLY reason to file a NPB is to get the FVFs back. >>>
Great piece of advice there. Thanks!
<< <i><<< Under NO circumstances is it safe to EVER ship an item to
a NPB who finally pays.
I would refund immediately, if an NPB paid. They are SNADs
waiting to happen.
The ONLY reason to file a NPB is to get the FVFs back. >>>
Great piece of advice there. Thanks! >>
I guess I'm missing it but the buyer could do the exact same thing without being a NPB - but unless I got it wrong, I guess the NPB signals the buyer's intentions sorta like scammers have a basic form of behavior, so in that sense again I think it is a great piece of advice to remember...unless I'm missing something that PayPal treats a NPB differently in these situations which I'm unaware of.
/////////////////////////
It's about the quality of the person.
If they don't wanna pay without a fight, there is no reason to
put them in a position to STEAL from you by sending merch
to them.
<< <i>"...I guess I'm missing it ..."
/////////////////////////
It's about the quality of the person.
If they don't wanna pay without a fight, there is no reason to
put them in a position to STEAL from you by sending merch
to them. >>
So I did get your point and it's a great point. Thanks Storm!
of stories about EBAY's upstanding "customers."
scamarama
Some of the vids are about scum sellers.
Most folks don't know how to write searchable
titles on YT, and it makes isolating bad buyer
stories harder.
Just sort through and you'll find them.
If you want to expand the search to "EBAY,"
the bad buyer stories are much more numerous,
but harder to wade through.
//////////////////
The scam played on the OP has been going on for
MANY MONTHS in non-collectible cats. Looks like
the word is out wider.
Collectors are still the MOST trustworthy EBAYers,
but the trend is infecting even them.
<< <i>I followed all the rules. Sold an item for $250+. The buyer did not respond for 11 days and then paid after I relisted the item. He then filed an item not received claim the very next day. I shipped priority mail with signature confirmation, the item arrives and he changes the claim to item significantly not as described. He emails me 50 times asking me to call him or give him my phone number. I provide all the information and he provided a bunch of fictional and insane information and paypal rules in his favor. Paypal rules in his favor and say he gets a refund if he sends the item back. So today I get a signature confirmation package with a few common cards. I filed an appeal with PayPal, but they reversed the payment to him and I have to appeal PayPal to get my money from them. I think this may be the end of my eBay and PayPal days, I guess I should be glad it was $250 and not $5,000. >>
First off, if there was such an issue with getting paid, I don't understand why you honored the payment 11 days after the auction ended AND you had already relisted the item. That was the first red flag. Second, once payment was received, I would've waited a day or two prior to shipping just for spits and giggles.
In any respect, I'm sorry to hear that this happen and I would suggest that you out the buyer's eBay ID so that the rest of us can be on the look out.
try to file one in the location of the THIEF.
www.usacops.com
IF the first few cops tell you "it's a civil matter,"
keep calling until you get the top guy.
The JOB of the police is to protect the "community."
They have no obligation to protect individuals. Having
a THIEF on the loose is a threat to the "community."
You can also look up the TV station in the SCUMster's
town and call the reporter who does "consumer stories."
If she's bored, and you talk nice, she might get interested.
I'm confused as to why you would send it after you re listed it?
Steve
<< <i>I'm confused as to why you would send it after you re listed it? >>
Guess I shouldn't have been a smarta$$. I had the same scenario a few weeks ago. Guy used BIN and never paid. I file NPB. He never responds. I close the NPB and relist. He pays 2 days later. I end new listing and ship him the card. He filed an item not received complaint today. AWESOME!!. Mine was only $20 and the guy is a seller too
<< <i>And of course Allen can't even leave negative feedback for this filthy POS buyer, which helps let the scammer scam some more. >>
Excellent point, Steve. Ebay has been doing everything it can to hide the bad guys behind the curtain. I'm sorry you got burned because of it, Allen. We can only hope that the jerk gets his just rewards some day for what he did to you and probably many others.
- John Wooden
<< <i>........I'm confused as to why you would send it after you re listed it?
Steve >>
$250+ must have been a good price that he didnt think he could duplicate with the relist. Let us know how you make out going forward with storm's advice.
//////////////////////////
The ONLY folks I know who have gotten cheated in the end
on these cases, are those who gave up and did not follow
through with the appeals process and other fightback-steps.
Revenge is my favorite motivator - next to greed - and I
never think in terms of folks getting what they deserve
"someday." If I had relied on karma to vex my enemies,
I would be broke and terminally depressed.
......
Although, karma has certainly nailed me a few times.
Would love to see a lawsuit filed against Paypal about this..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Sickening...maybe you can pay him a little courtesy visit after a series of late night phone calls..
Would love to see a lawsuit filed against Paypal about this.. >>
I was thinking the same thing...might be time for a road trip!
<< <i>
<< <i>........I'm confused as to why you would send it after you re listed it?
Steve >>
$250+ must have been a good price that he didnt think he could duplicate with the relist. Let us know how you make out going forward with storm's advice. >>
Ahhh Gotcha.
Steve
<< <i>The thing can be fixed on appeal.
You will likely need a series of supervisors to solve it.
If PP gives you any carp, go to the San Jose BBB site
and file a claim. (You can FAX them photos and additional
proofs.)
PP has a room full of creatures issuing "courtesy refunds"
to sellers, based on BBB complaints about CRIMINAL SCUM
mailing back "rocks and phone books" instead of the computer
they "bought" and filed FRAUDULENT SNADs on.
PP needs to be sued on the issue. Some young lawyer could
snag a few million on the FAST settlement. It's a slam dunk.
........
Earlier today there was a thread about the perils of trying to
rehab EBAY deals that go south at the front end. (That one
was about a buyer getting burned.)
Under NO circumstances is it safe to EVER ship an item to
a NPB who finally pays.
I would refund immediately, if an NPB paid. They are SNADs
waiting to happen.
The ONLY reason to file a NPB is to get the FVFs back.
Why would I do biznez with a piece of subhuman garbage
that failed to pay me without an NPB filing?
...........
Allen, you should also fill out the fraud forms at USPS
before you finalize your appeal at PP.
You should also file your story at
www.ic3.gov
They work on a cumulative complaint basis. If the SCUM
is a serial offender, they will eventually nail him.
////////////////////////// >>
Storm, couldn't this happen even if you didn't file an NPB? I mean, let's supposed the guy had paid on time, Allen ships the card, the buyer files SNAD and ships back commons. Seems like the exact same thing happens: you're screwed by PayPal. This is scary stuff because while I don't sell high quantity on eBay, I sell high $ cards.
I guess that helps somewhat.
Steve
<< <i>"...I guess I'm missing it ..."
/////////////////////////
It's about the quality of the person.
If they don't wanna pay without a fight, there is no reason to
put them in a position to STEAL from you by sending merch
to them. >>
I get your point. Sorry for asking it again. I should have read through all the responses first.
<< <i>That is why as soon as someone pays me I sweep it out of there into my bank account......... >>
Me too, but then I get it out of that bank account fast too because paypal can reach their grubby hands into the bank account that's tied to the paypal account.
//////////////////////////////
Of course, this can happen anytime we do biznez
on EBAY and accept PayPal.
The point here is that ONCE a "customer" shows
me a FLAG that he is a potential dirty-bird - by
making me file a NPB - I am far too conservative
to continue the transaction.
You can't do good biznez with a bad man. If you make
me file a NPB, you are a "bad man."
In EBAY life and real life, I "get out" at the first sign
of problems.
.........
It's important to remember that the "box of rocks" scam
ONLY works on EBAY.
On non-EBAY transactions, there is no such thing as a
PayPal SNAD decision.
PayPal is perfectly safe for honest sellers to use, BUT not
on EBAY.
<< <i>
<< <i>That is why as soon as someone pays me I sweep it out of there into my bank account......... >>
Me too, but then I get it out of that bank account fast too because paypal can reach their grubby hands into the bank account that's tied to the paypal account. >>
I don't think they can do that any longer, from what I understand though is they can get at you if you pay your
ebay tab with auto pay. Storm ?
Steve
<< <i>That is why as soon as someone pays me I sweep it out of there into my bank account.
I guess that helps somewhat.
Steve >>
///////////////////////////
PayPal is MUCH easier to deal with when they are forced
to ask/beg for the money BEFORE they steal it and give
it to the CRIMINAL they are abetting.
I sweep my money too, but since there is always new money,
it does not really do any good.
A part-time seller will have better luck using the sweep as
a firewall against the RICO gang.
Honest sellers should NOT have to worry about such nonsense.
And, they don't unless they accept PayPal on EBAY.
the account that you sweep the money into.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>That is why as soon as someone pays me I sweep it out of there into my bank account......... >>
Me too, but then I get it out of that bank account fast too because paypal can reach their grubby hands into the bank account that's tied to the paypal account. >>
I don't think they can do that any longer, from what I understand though is they can get at you if you pay your
ebay tab with auto pay. Storm ?
Steve >>
///////////////////////////////////////////////
They cannot do that.
BUT, they have stopped/reversed ACH runs up to three-days after
the transfer is ordered.
Once the cash is in your bank account, the thieves cannot touch it
UNLESS you tell them they can.
...
There is a loophole that the RICO gang is getting more adept at.
If you are setup to pay EBAY fees on autopay - using your checking
account as the funding source - PayPal will add any debit they claim
you owe PP to the ACH withdrawal request.
There are several lawsuits on the issue - and hundreds of complaints
to AG offices - but there has been no broad resolution.
now thats hilairous! good luck with that....he's a scumbag and its a shady operation and they know it.
<< <i>On non-EBAY transactions, there is no such thing as a
PayPal SNAD decision. >>
Yes and no.
If your buyer on a non-eBay deal paid by credit card, they can go to their credit card company with a chargeback after PayPal denies their claim, asserting that the merchandise is not as described. The credit card company will then instruct them to send it back, and will do a chargeback.
I had to do this as a buyer once (the seller sent a Dots Miller pin when I had purchased a Miller Huggins pin). I got my money back, less return shipping.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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----------------------
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1951 Topps Redbacks PSA 8 (100%)
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1953 Topps PSA 5+ (91.24%)
1973 Topps PSA 8+ (70.76%)
1985 Fleer PSA 10 (54.85%)
<< <i>
<< <i>On non-EBAY transactions, there is no such thing as a
PayPal SNAD decision. >>
Yes and no.
If your buyer on a non-eBay deal paid by credit card, they can go to their credit card company with a chargeback after PayPal denies their claim, asserting that the merchandise is not as described. The credit card company will then instruct them to send it back, and will do a chargeback.
I had to do this as a buyer once (the seller sent a Dots Miller pin when I had purchased a Miller Huggins pin). I got my money back, less return shipping.
Nick >>
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Actually, it's only "yes," when we are talking about PayPal.
ANYTIME a seller takes a credit card, cleared on ANY platform, he risks
a subsequent chargeback; either warranted or unwarranted.
The difference between the PP platform and the merchant bank that
clears inhand/online/phone charges, is that PayPal's policies support
FRAUDULENT chargebacks. The MBs and the credit card companies
make it VERY difficult for a CRIMINAL to defraud sellers.
When a CB is filed via a credit card company, the MB notifies the
seller and the seller begins the communication process directly
with the credit card company. Defenses of fraud and customer
breakage/misuse are both extremely effective in quickly shutting
down an unwarranted CB.
The security depts at the CC companies are VERY slick about
catching crooked CBs. I have not lost an unwarranted CB in
decades of accepting credit cards.
On PayPal, the "defense" process is entirely different and PayPal
- despite their LIES to the contrary - makes NO effort to protect
sellers from fraudulent SNAD claims. The seller's only general
recourse is to immediately prepare an appeals case; since most
EBAY sellers lack sophistication/experience in such matters, they
simply fold up and lose their money.
The industry standard among clearing-agents/MBs is to make NO
decision regarding SNAD claims. PayPal even abides by this concept
in off-EBAY transactions. On EBAY, PayPal violates every common
practice and opens a HUGE hole for fraudsters to operate. When
the flawed policy is combined with a TOTAL failure to grasp/admit/investigate
fraudulent claims, PayPal can easily be proclaimed to be UNSAFE for sellers
to use on EBAY.
.......
Last year, the AU regulators accepted PayPal's claims that
1 in 3000 PayPal transactions contains at least one element of fraud.
The same regulators looked at the numbers for bank-to-bank transfers,
the most common online-payment method in the world and found that
1 in 30,000 bank-to-bank transactions contains at least one element of fraud.
TEN TIMES more fraud in PayPal transactions. Yet, the RICO gang
continues to thrive under a banner of "the safest way to pay online."
.........
To learn more about what kind of people you are REALLY dealing with
at PayPal, read "The PayPal Wars." It is a 350 page book, free at the
google book link, and details the GANGSTER origins of the company.
The PAYPAL Wars
Child porn, online gambling, drug money clearing, transfers by terrorists
all lie at the base of how the company made its bones.
The same characters you read about in TPPW, have set and implemented
the payment policies that EBAY enforces. To expect those policies to be
clean would be foolish.
Just give us a name, we'll give him some good old fashioned CU pile onage.