China "worried" about U.S. Treasury holdings
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>If I were holding a trillion plus in U.S. Treasury dept I would say the same. >>
Not to mention that it's 1/2 of their foreign currency reserves.
<< <i>
<< <i>If I were holding a trillion plus in U.S. Treasury dept I would say the same. >>
Not to mention that it's 1/2 of their foreign currency reserves. >>
I cringe to think what will happen to our economy when China starts to "unload" all that green toilet paper!!! Did someone say $2,500 gold?
US warships head for South China Sea after standoff
<< <i>This is an economic volley fired over our national bow. The message? Don't mess with China - WE OWN USA >>
Actually, all they own are a bunch of paper IOU's.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>This is an economic volley fired over our national bow. The message? Don't mess with China - WE OWN USA >>
Actually, all they own are a bunch of paper IOU's.
Yeah ....the're all counterfeit.......!!!!!!.....signed off by Bernie Madoff.....!!
speling..editt..
They need to learn that the purpose of currency in an internatonal economy is to transact business and flow goods between countries, not to accumulate the currency of another country through unfair trade practices and hoard it.
They will find out what all dollar holders learn, the value goes down.
<< <i>If they have a problem we can just fill up a cargo container with jumbo bills.
They need to learn that the purpose of currency in an internatonal economy is to transact business and flow goods between countries, not to accumulate the currency of another country through unfair trade practices and hoard it.
They will find out what all dollar holders learn, the value goes down. >>
Let them hoard a bunch more, crank up the printing presses and buy a bunch of Gold while shipping the treasuries to China then declare a massive currency devaluation!!! That'll bring those damn commies to their knees while not really hurting us Gold and Silverbugs!!!
Why are they here? Anyone got a clue?
<< <i>Be very quite while talking about the Chinese. Don't you all know there are many Chinese entering our country at all hours of the day? They are holed up in all them Chinese restaurants just feeding you so they can feed themselves. They are all like some sort of invading Army positioned very strategic like.
Why are they here? Anyone got a clue?
Nothing can be further than the truth. This statement is so wrong that I am amazed that you actually wrote it. Actually, I am not amazed.
First of all...most Americans see a small part of China...the NEW part. China is really 80% peasant and POOR.
Just Our increase in GDP during the last 8 years of 2000-2008 is equal to THE ENTIRE CHINESE ECONOMY.
The Congressional recently passed 'stimulus plan' or whatever you wish to call it is about equal to the entire amount of money owed China. Debt sabre rattling is Almost a non factor. China ain't goin NOWHERE. She's dependant on the U.S. economy because China doesn't currently have enough purchasing power within it's own ranks. If she makes money selling her garbage through wally world...she has to put the profit where it is safest...back in our country and also by hoarding commodities--which she is doing as stealthily as she can. But she makes mistakes. India has been 'annointed' as her competition in the world worldwide of oil bidding and has successfully bid-up China's cost of oil north of $70/barrel---making those acquisitions non competitive. These failed forays into world commodities acquisitions have further driven her intentions back to U.S. Treasuries.
respectfully yours
Edit: I'd like to remind you of an old proverb...." when you owe the bank, the banks owns you. When you owe the bank everything at the bank...you own the bank."
I really don't know much about this economic relationship between us and China except what I see, like everything on the shelves are from China. I know they hold a lot of US debt. What they will or will not do is beyond me. However China is a powerful nation and a proud people. I keep hearing the talking heads on CNBC saying what China will do and won't do and it reminds me of the time I was a kid and the police pulled over a friend of mine and found his pot pipe (but no pot) that dumb azz told the cop that he can't bust him for a pipe. Guess where my friend spent the night. If we keep telling China what they'll do don't be surprised when they surprise you.
Rising interest rates will be the first result.
Who's going to be buying them? You're right, though - as the supply increases, the prices of all those Treasuries will be discounted in order to entice buyers, driving up rates. (Gee, I sure hope that the economy is healthy when THAT happens.)
But on the other hand, what does it matter if you're making 10% interest if the dollars are losing ground even faster? Ten Percent of what?
The price of gold is irrelevant if there is a crisis of confidence in the currency, and that's where we're headed. It's being created with every move they make in Washington DC. Gold might go up, it might go down - but in either case, it will be worth alot more than paper.
So, you have to ask yourself - who benefits when the US Congress screws their own people and everyone else besides, by devaluing it's own currency and by engineering a credit crisis that halves the stock market inside of 1 year? And who benefits when the incompetant, corrupt and greedy banks, corporations and unions are bailed out with taxpayer money, over and over, while the same executives and members of Congress keep THEIR positions and pensions?
If gold does make a move towards $1,500 - you can be sure that there will be a chorus of agonized voices complaining about the unprincipled commodity speculators who are making profits at everyone else's expense.
And that's about the same time that there will be a great hue and cry about the need to control so many crazy gun nuts to save us all from what might happen if they all went crazy at the same time! I just read this weekend that a Ron Paul bumper sticker will put you on a special "list" at the state capitol here in Missouri. So will a reference to the Revolutionary motto, "Don't Tread on Me".
Interesting times we live in.
Sorry if I'm rambling again.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I cringe to think what will happen to our economy when China starts to "unload" all that green toilet paper!!! Did someone say $2,500 gold?
Rising interest rates will be the first result.
Who's going to be buying them? You're right, though - as the supply increases, the prices of all those Treasuries will be discounted in order to entice buyers, driving up rates. (Gee, I sure hope that the economy is healthy when THAT happens.)
But on the other hand, what does it matter if you're making 10% interest if the dollars are losing ground even faster? Ten Percent of what?
The price of gold is irrelevant if there is a crisis of confidence in the currency, and that's where we're headed. It's being created with every move they make in Washington DC. Gold might go up, it might go down - but in either case, it will be worth alot more than paper.
So, you have to ask yourself - who benefits when the US Congress screws their own people and everyone else besides, by devaluing it's own currency and by engineering a credit crisis that halves the stock market inside of 1 year? And who benefits when the incompetant, corrupt and greedy banks, corporations and unions are bailed out with taxpayer money, over and over, while the same executives and members of Congress keep THEIR positions and pensions?
If gold does make a move towards $1,500 - you can be sure that there will be a chorus of agonized voices complaining about the unprincipled commodity speculators who are making profits at everyone else's expense.
And that's about the same time that there will be a great hue and cry about the need to control so many crazy gun nuts to save us all from what might happen if they all went crazy at the same time! I just read this weekend that a Ron Paul bumper sticker will put you on a special "list" at the state capitol here in Missouri. So will a reference to the Revolutionary motto, "Don't Tread on Me".
Interesting times we live in.
Sorry if I'm rambling again. >>
That's why I "finally pulled the trigger"
I figure a 12 gauge shotgun, Glock 45 and 10/22 Ruger isn't enough firepower and with Coyotes moving in the AR-15 along with a scope will help take care of that problem.
Who is going to buy Treasuries?
The Fed will buy them. No worries about that. They have a lot of ink. And own the press.
For those that are concerned with CHINA....
China has a lot of problems. More than the average American usually thinks about. They have a ONE CHILD policy. The effect of that is to quickly age their population. And they have no health care as we know it or a Social Security System. Soon their old population is going to present them with a huge burden. The proceeds from their stake in Treasuries will be used to help them pay for their aging population.
China, basically can't make money fast enough to offset the demographic liability that will increasingly be an overwhelming burden to them.
In the last several thousand years, China has had NINE families that have ruled. The one in power right now is short-timing it. Some say a year or two at best. EIGHT families on deck. A lot depends on the length of the U.S. recession. If China starts making and shipping widgets sooner rather than later-then the current power structure may hang on a little longer.
None of their neighbors likes them. India, Russia, Japan all distrust China and with good reason. 30%+ of China's current land mass has been ANNEXED from adjoining countries. Yep, just swallowed up. Currently Russia is very concerned about China's seeping into land west of the Urals. How would you feel if your neighbors all locked their doors because of your habits and your 'ace in the hole'-their holdings of Treasuries were being put at risk by 'our' inflationary habits.?
You think you have problems?
The Lakota Indians tried that and look what happened to them.
Me thinks that the problem is on a more clandestine level. What would happen if you had 'innocent' employees--LOTS of them--just insert themselves into a lot of companies in the Good ole U.S. of A.----and those green carded or worse yet--American citizens---just go about their daily existance, raise families and such but their 'OTHER JOB' was just to gather one or two bits of data a week or a month or a year? All that data--if it was the right data, when combined in a central data base would constitute a heck of a weapon.
That's what is happening IMHO and they have no designs on the Dakota's. Heck, they could render Dakota into a ghost town just by introducing a bacterium or virus that eats wheat or makes it unattractive for human digestion.
respectfully yours...and HEH how bout the price of gold today?
So why is the Fed buying US Treasuries? Are we now at war with China? A war being fought on the economic front?
<< <i>Dollar plunges in fallout from Fed Treasury plans
So why is the Fed buying US Treasuries? Are we now at war with China? A war being fought on the economic front? >>
Some ignoramuses will blame the Chinese for predatory lending. You watch.
Eventually we all need to take a long look in the mirror at who is to blame. ONLY then will we start to see substantive change and it defintely starts with the individual, no matter how much the collective wants everyone to think otherwise.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
So why is the Fed buying US Treasuries? in part by driving down the price because capital is finite and by buying up 2-10 yr T's--so the theory goes, capital is freed up to 'invest' in car loans and credit card debt. It's an inflationary move which is ONE reason why gold went from 888 to 968 in one day.
Are we now at war with China? A war being fought on the economic front? All wars are economic.
Full strike, please spend a $100 for a years subscription to the WSJ. Your inquiring mind will benefit. My daddy told me in 1967 that if I read the WSJ cover to cover while I was in high school from 1967-71 that I would get the equivalent of a Harvard education. He made his point.
I bring to your attention the Bakken Formation. I don't think giving North Dakota up would be a very good move. Just my opinion.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>re: North Dakota.
I bring to your attention the Bakken Formation. I don't think giving North Dakota up would be a very good move. Just my opinion. >>
I vote we just give them California. It's broke, it's going to fall into the ocean, and they can keep Pelosi too.
<< <i>
<< <i>re: North Dakota.
I bring to your attention the Bakken Formation. I don't think giving North Dakota up would be a very good move. Just my opinion. >>
I vote we just give them California. It's broke, it's going to fall into the ocean, and they can keep Pelosi too.
We should just give California to Mexico since most people living there are Mexicans.
<< <i>OUR Mexicans are very sweet people and they are just massing around our southern border getting ready to invade Mexico. While you all are giving California away, please remember to send a little water to the farmers so that the USA can eat next year.
Thats ok, we'll be fine in Fla
In fact, here's a little garden my Wife and I had made in our backyard. When we saw these crappy tomatoes at publix, inported from canada no less, at $4.00 a pound, that was it for us. We have the best tomatoes anywhere now and we also plant Okra, several types of Peppers, Tomatoes, Yellow Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Catnip ( it's legal for the Kitty Kats ), Squash, Scallions, Melons. That's what's currently growing in there as I type. On the rest of the property we have 2 trees producing the juciest and sweetest naval oranges you ever saw, giant reg grapefruit, Tangerines, Bannana's, and we're nurturing a baby Mango tree which will start producing in a year from now, plus Dragonfruit from seeds we brought back from Vietnam, Mangosteen which is very high in antioxidents and also from seeds we brought back. We just bought another house with more land about 15 minutes away in Sarasota and we'll be duplicating this "garden" although this ones gonna be larger and we'll also be planting coconut palms , and avacado as well as a few other items.
Here's the garden when it was just built:
If you look close toward the right of this one you can see the navel oranges on this tree. These are some of the best I've ever had. Almost a glass of sweet orange juice that needs nothing, from 1 orange. We got a couple hundred of them from this one tree this year and there's still about 30 or so still on there that we need to pick as all the new blossoms are out and it's loaded.
That white thing is pvc pipe. I had it run under the ground from the faucet on the side of the garage, to the top of the gerden and then connected an old fashioned sprinkler head that costs $1.25 so my lazy azz can just walk out the side of the garage, turn the garden water on, take a walk in the back among the palm trees, fruit trees etc, check out what's going on in the Palms, and Oak tree woods behind us. I had paths cut thru it all and now it's like a mini nature walk on our own property. We'll do something similar on the next one after we close. Very peaceful place to be.
I better not catch our cats doing what this hep cat is doing with his cat nip heheh
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Bad kittykat! Carol doesn't like gardening threads even if they are popular amongst the posters (eating is a good thing and after all, food is a commodity so where's the bad?), but for my two cents...have you considered bulding a little hen coup in the back yard? Three hens will lay as many eggs as you can eat. Hens don't make much noise except for when they are making your breakfast. And, hey, you already got scallions and OJ so if you can trade for a little bread, you're livin' good. This year I have cucumbers, squash, pole beans, bell peppers, carrots, radishes and of course, tomatos. Oh yeah, "Gold is good, cash is king" (for Carol). Gardening is good.
The Chinese situation is kind of unfolding. I think the worst thing that anyone can possibly do is anticipate what the Chinese leadership will do to help China grow. All one can do is look at how things behave and use history (and their 5 year plan) Go ahead, it's a short read to get a sense of what is going on there. I really don't think they are in a position to take the global reins just yet, maybe not for a few years. There is no quesiton that their leadership is very effective and they have a sixth sense about making money and investing and they are willing to do the work to get things right but there are just too many things on their internal plate right now. They are going to have to confront the same socialist agenda that the US is starting to struggle with (well scattered throughout the plan); who do you help and how do you help them. They have 1.3 billion people (4X the US) and that's from a one child policy and as a result much of their demographic is either old or getting old with not as many children coming up as the venerable parents are about to need their childrens public help in a big way.
China is huge geographically and they are coming from a agricultural/industrial society (heavy on the ag.) smack into the modern world of space exploration and solar energy and measuring information in terrabites; victims of their own isolation for the last 800 years but after watching the opening of the olympics last year, there probably isn't any doubt that they can hold their own in modern technology. I think what you are likely to see there is that old yin yang dealie where they lap the rest of the world in technology and industrial innovation but lag in modernizing thier governance and employment distribution to the benefit of the greater population. I do think China will be driving their own train and they certainly have the intellect and principles to do very well with it but I would think that China doesn't want do be driving the world train right now so if we want, we can get on board with thier needs and work closely with them in governance and finance, where we excell and then also share technology and industrial modernization (low fossil fuel stuff) with them or we can not leave the platform with the train and just get the hell out of the way because that train IS leaving.
If China wanted all the money, they could have it in no time at all. I doubt that is their agenda, there is no winner there but once again...anyone that thinks they can anticipate what China will do is just guessing and I doubt China worried at all.
JMHO
<< <i>OUR Mexicans are very sweet people and they are just massing around our southern border getting ready to invade Mexico. While you all are giving California away, please remember to send a little water to the farmers so that the USA can eat next year.
Hey man, I farm up here in the red river valley of the north in Minnesota and let me tell you we've been swimming up her, getting ready for a huge flood similiar to the great flood of 1997 so maybe we could arrange to give some of our water to you guys? One thing to remember about water and farmers there's never the right amount it's either to dry or to wet.