1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set - The First Branch Mint Cent (many pics - updated 9/20/2009)

illini420

Just took photos of my 1908-S Indian Head Cent PCGS Grading Set that I have been working on lately. While my first love in coin collecting is my 1909 Mint Set (link in signature), I also really enjoy Indian Head Cents. I figured a decent way to learn the series and how to grade the series better was to work on a grading set. I've always loved the 1908-S semi-key date as it's the first time the cent was produced outside of the Philadelphia Mint. 1908 is also the last year the Chicago Cubs were the MLB Champions Not all of the examples in the set below are the best for the grade, but some of them were just hard to find one example in the grade at all. I figure I'll probably replace a few of them once I find better examples, but for now they'll have to do. Thanks for looking and hope that maybe the set helps a few others learn the series too. Also, if you find an example of a 1908-S that would fill a hole in the set, feel free to let me know If you would like to know the current pops of these coins, a link to the Showcase set in the Registry with that information is in my signature.


PCGS G04


PCGS G06


PCGS VG08


PCGS VG10


PCGS F12


PCGS F15


PCGS VF20


PCGS VF25


PCGS VF30


PCGS VF35


PCGS XF40


PCGS XF45


PCGS AU50


PCGS AU53


PCGS AU55


PCGS AU58


PCGS MS62BN


PCGS MS62RB


PCGS MS63BN


PCGS MS63RB


PCGS MS63RD


PCGS MS64RB


PCGS MS64RD


PCGS Genuine - 91 Questionable Color


PCGS Genuine - 97 Environmental Damage


PCGS Genuine - 98 Damage

Wil2008

Good Evening.

WOW, pretty darn nice grading set you have there. Nice work!!

Wil

blu62vette

cool idea!

Bochiman

I like it!

sinin1

oh may, that is so cool


I probably would have tried a coin I could afford like the 1909 regular ihc maybe

doing what you did with a key was quite an accomplishment

Elcontador

Thanks for the grading set. I went through a friend's coins and he gave me a raw 08 S as a "thank you." It looks like it's in the VF 35 to XF 40 range.

illini420

<< <i>oh may, that is so cool


I probably would have tried a coin I could afford like the 1909 regular ihc maybe

doing what you did with a key was quite an accomplishment >>



Thanks for the kind words. Of course a 1909-P set would have cost significantly less and would have went along with my 1909 mint set quite well.

However, since the 1908-S is a semi-key date, they can actually be found in PCGS slabs in the lower grades if you look hard enough. I haven't looked much, but I imagine it would be quite difficult to find a G04 or a VG08 1909-P IHC in a PCGS slab. I wouldn't expect too many folks slabbing those.

Seems like in order to do a grading set you'd either have to choose a semi-key or key date which is worth slabbing in the lower grades, otherwise you'd have to make a lot of the lower grades yourself.

frnklnlvr

Nice set!

The VG10 and F12 look about the same. What do you think?

dsessom

<< <i>Nice set!

The VG10 and F12 look about the same. What do you think? >>



I thought the VG10 looked better than the F12 or F15. Such minute differences at that grade level, that it's hard to tell. I love the set though! Very nice!

dbemike

Nice set, I see its newly listed in Collectors Showcase.

illini420

I do think that the 10 and the 12 are pretty much a toss up, especially when looking at the obverse only and the "Liberty" letters. However, I do think the reverse of the 12 is a little better. I also think the 15 beats out both for the same reason, it just may be tougher to see in the photo because of the woodgrain toning. The one that I'd like to replace most is the G06 because of the reverse scrapes/marks that reveal the red copper. If I were sending that in I would expect a body bag for that, but that's the only G06 I found so far and it wasn't too expensive.

shorecoll

Have you sought professional help for your affliction

Maybe you should try a die variety set.

DorkGirl

Very cool!!

Broadstruck

BECOKA

Fantastic,

Although, that VG10 had a pretty strong liberty beating the 2 or 3 grades above it.

Looks to be missing a few grades too.

ThePennyLady

This is a really great idea, and so helpful in learning how to grade Indian cents. If you have you're own website, you should post it there too! You're right about not being able to find low grade common dates such as 1909 in PCGS holders. You would probably have to slab them yourselves, which would get a little expensive. By the way, I am a dealer and specialized in Indian cents, and happen to have almost a complete grading set (not all in PCGS holders) of 1877 Indian cents from FR2 through VF35. I tried to get a PCGS PO1 on Ebay but was out bid on it. When I set up at shows, I stand them up on little holder stands in my case and they ususally attract a lot of attention. Any way, congratulations on putting this together!

CoinMeister

ThePennylady

Cool idea illini420. I like the set. How long did this take to put together?

ziggy29

Pretty cool. I think, like some of the others, that the VG10 and the F12 should be flip-flopped. I think the VG10 is the stronger coin here.

Steve27

Nice set! Is the "LIBERTY" weakly struck for this date? (I ask because some of the grades at the low end look higher than I would expect.)

RWB

Nice group of coins! (I know a guy in China who can add the “VDB” letters if you want….)

illini420

Thanks for all of the great comments, I appreciate it. Will try to respond to the questions/comments:

---

<< <i>Have you sought professional help for your affliction

Maybe you should try a die variety set. >>



Well I could do the set based on mint mark placement Check out the VF35 and XF45, they got a little wild placing those

---

<< <i>Fantastic,

Although, that VG10 had a pretty strong liberty beating the 2 or 3 grades above it.

Looks to be missing a few grades too. >>





<< <i>Pretty cool. I think, like some of the others, that the VG10 and the F12 should be flip-flopped. I think the VG10 is the stronger coin here. >>



Based on just looking at the "Liberty" the VG10 is pretty strong and a little stronger than the F12, however, I think the reverse of the VG10 coin is a little more worn in comparison, perhaps some net grading going on there?? Also, the F15 is actually a little stronger than it looks given the wood-grain finish, just a little misleading.

Still searching for the rest of the grades

---

<< <i>Cool idea illini420. I like the set. How long did this take to put together? >>



Just about 6 months so far. I had a couple of them already, but decided to do the grading set around October 2008.

---

<< <i>Nice set! Is the "LIBERTY" weakly struck for this date? (I ask because some of the grades at the low end look higher than I would expect.) >>



Not sure if the Liberty is weak on this date, but I do believe that the feather tips can be pretty weak on the higher grades compared to other dates. Perhaps one of the IHC experts can be of more assistance in this regard?

---

<< <i>This is a really great idea, and so helpful in learning how to grade Indian cents. ... By the way, I am a dealer and specialized in Indian cents, and happen to have almost a complete grading set (not all in PCGS holders) of 1877 Indian cents from FR2 through VF35 ... Any way, congratulations on putting this together! >>



First, welcome to the Forum The set has been pretty helpful so far and have learned a bit in trying to assemble it. I've seen your 1877s and that is a pretty impressive run. Just a bit more costly of a key date there Eventually, I hope to finish my set out through MS66RD, but I'm working on the lower grades first as most of the higher grades seem to be available more often.

DRUNNER

Superb . .and thanks for posting!

Drunner

tombr

Very nice

The VF30 used to be mine. I'm glad it found a good home. Here's my pic of it

EagleEye

I thought there were a few wrong grades. You really can't grade by what is on the holder on circ Indians, The TPG's are all over the place on these.
The VG-10 looked more like a F-15.
The F-15 looks like a VF-20.
The VF-25 looks like a VF-20.
The XF-45 looked like a VF-30
The AU-55 looked like a XF-40.

Of course, I'm using standards based on actual wear, not market grading: Found here (pdf file)

Oh, BTW, Charmy! See you in Portland!

robkool

Congrats on starting this new PCGS set... It's gonna be a big challenge to assemble a complete grading set.
I think the tough ones will be the lower grades like P01 - AG03. I currently have one in a PCGS AU50 holder, and one that is raw that grades XF40/45.
Good luck with this set...
And welcome Charmy "The pennylady to these boards...

illini420

Bump in case you missed it last week

tombr, i like your pic of the VF30 a little better


Also, the file posted by EagleEye should be required reading for any IHC collector; it's a great resource!!!

I agree that a couple of the coins could be graded differently by a point or two... however, I do think it's odd that most resources on grading IHC's are almost strictly limited to the detail of "Liberty." For example, in looking at the Liberty, the VG10 does look stronger than the F12. However, I think the reverse should count for something as well (it's half the coin ). The reverse of the VG10 does seem more worn than the F12 (looking at the shield wear shows it somewhat).

Thanks again everyone

veryfine

If going by the "old school" grading, which is heavily dependent on a readable LIBERTY, I can understand the differing opinions between the VG10 and F12.
But as I see it, the F12 has a more three dimensional portrait. The VG10 has more obvious flat points. I like the way PCGS grades circulated Indian cents, because they do not base everything on the overly simplistic LIBERTY criteria.
The same is true for Liberty Nickels and other Barber coins.

kaz

Nice set and a great idea, illini! And I've saved Rick Snow's grading guide for reference, it's excellent reading. Thanks to you both.

illini420

Added an MS64RB this weekend.

Thanks to Andy of Angel Dee's for pointing it out to me

fc

i found it interesting that a G04 still has visible rims all the way around, both obv and rev.

this same standard does not apply to lib half eagles.

i find eagleeye's comments very interesting and thought something
was quite odd looking through them in the VG to AU

illini420

<< <i>i found it interesting that a G04 still has visible rims all the way around, both obv and rev.

this same standard does not apply to lib half eagles.
>>




Definitely seems to be a different standard regarding the rims... Just look at the vast difference in the detail left on the rims/denticles on the G04 vs. the G06.

fugnchill

As an IHC collector/lover I see that none in your set have the typical improper metal mixture (streaking). Do you consider this a negative? Mine also has the planchet errors. I found it interesting... kind of like war paint but I may be biased. I'm curious what your opinion is about this coin:


It's on ebay with bids so it's gone but would like to know your opinion for future purchases.

Lestrrr

Wiscane

very nice ........

illini420

<< <i>As an IHC collector/lover I see that none in your set have the typical improper metal mixture (streaking). Do you consider this a negative? Mine also has the planchet errors. I found it interesting... kind of like war paint but I may be biased. I'm curious what your opinion is about this coin:

Lestrrr >>



Actually, the F15 example I have above has a very nice woodgrain streaking to it. I don't necessarily consider a woodgrain or streaky look negative as that is how they came from the Mint. But all else equal, I'd rather have an example that isn't streaky, just they way I like them I guess

fugnchill

Thank you for your response/opinion.

I'm kind of mixed on this subject. I like the look but would probably prefer a clean look for my set.

BTW - I didn't mean to hijack your thread or kill it, totally unintentional. I was admiring your coins and pics and thought I would ask for your opinion. On that note... Very nice work on the set!

Lestrrr

pakasmom

I don't know how I missed this thread when it was first posted. Very well done, Mike.

stinkinlincoln

Great set there!

illini420

Added several new examples to the set since the last bump including the XF40, AU50 (thanks robkool!!!), AU53, MS62BN, MS63RD and the three Genuine coins. Haven't been able to upload the new pics to the PCGS Registry yet though as the site isn't working properly. Hope you enjoy!!!

steelielee

Beautiful, thanks for posting, Missed it the first time around. Love that wood grain toning on the 63RD

OneCent

Great project that you are working on illini420. I hope you don't mind me posting the 1908-S
that I recently purchased...

Raw, VF30ish...

leothelyon

Leo

illini420

That's a pretty sweet looking 1908-S IHC, OneCent

mcheath

I love the look of the 62 brn.

Ed1840

Nice set, and a great year to boot.

advalorem

Mike, thanks for continuing to share a very educational thread.

I can't help but notice that the Cubs lost 11-2 today...I wanted to cheer you up, but facts are facts.

RBinTex

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Catch22

I think the AU-50 is the nicest looking coin of the lot.

Swampboy

Great set! Thanks for bumping it I must've missed it before.

advalorem

Mike, these old coins are nice and all --- but the real question is do you have any 2009 Lincoln varieties?

littlebear

That is one nice set! Thank you for sharing.

illini420

<< <i>Mike, these old coins are nice and all --- but the real question is do you have any 2009 Lincoln varieties? >>



At least you were kind enough to say "2009" and not just '09. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten excited to open an '09 thread to see some nice 1909 Lincolns, only to be let down

Thanks everyone for all of the comments. The AU50 is a very nice coin which I got from forum member "robkool" who was kool enough to make it available to me.