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Philly Coining Presses - A Lot Going On In This Picture

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  • jgrinzjgrinz Posts: 985 ✭✭✭
    I do not think the pictures are comparable as the OP picture was of an ELECTRIC version press and
    Woodies is 20 years earlier and I believe steam powered piston drivin through the floor version.

    Visually the pedistal is looking to be holding something QUITE different from the OP picture

    ANyway interesting pictures


    image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The presses are virtually the same, regardless of what power source turns the flywheel.

    The pedestals are esentially the same in size, shape, height and position bwetween the old mint and the new mint, so I cannot see such a radical difference in function (oil reservoir vs. planchet reservoir) between the old mint and the new mint.

    I cannot see pouring on oil with a ladle. Surely there must be one of them pointy-nozzled oil cans a la The Wizard Of Oz hiding on the other side of the press.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • firstmintfirstmint Posts: 1,171
    The press seen in the 1901 image is a smaller, shorter press than the ones in the later stereoview image.
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  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    "The pedestals are esentially the same in size, shape, height and position bwetween the old mint and the new mint"
    -----
    We're making a couple of dangerous assumptions.

    The original photo in this thread is of the U.S. Mint
    in Philadelphia. It is stated so on the reverse side
    of the original stereoview. The stereoview is not
    dated however, and the date the photo was taken
    may not even be the same year the stereoview was
    released in any event.

    The second photo of a Mint press has the jpeg
    name of 1901, but we don't know how that date
    was arrived at. Also we can't assume that the
    photo is of the Philadelphia Mint (old or new). It
    could very well be the Mint in New Orleans or
    San Francisco.

    firstmint is right that the second photo is of a
    different series of press. An easy way to tell
    is that the plate attached to the top-center
    of the press is triangular on the stereoview
    photo, while it is rounded at the top in the
    second photo.

    Just more fodder for the mystery!!

    ~




    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • firstmintfirstmint Posts: 1,171
    MisterBungle -

    You started this thread in search of some answers, however, you are succeeding in being contrary, and unfortunately, you base your opinions and belief on having very little or no knowledge of contemporary source materials.

    FYI -

    As I posted earlier, the image from 1901 is the actual image that was used in the Philadelphia Mint article found in the September 7, 1901, issue of Scientific American. I also own copies of the 1852 Gleason's newspaper and the 1903 Young book that I mentioned previously. I also own a copy of the steroeview that is pictured, along with numerous other inside-the-Mint images which are posted on my website www.coincats.com.

    The image that is shown in this thread has been cropped on the bottom just enough to remove the "SCI-AM. N.Y." attribution.

    The real "mystery" here is why you continue to disregard information that is presented. Perhaps you will endeavor to acquire a copy of this particular S A issue and learn something on your own that you won't accept from others.

    There is a great deal to learn about the various U.S. Mints and how they were constructed and how they operated. There were constant internal changes at the various times, and it's interesting to find out about them.
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  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    Well firstmint, since you know all the answers, I'll assume that history
    is in safe hands and there is no need for this thread.

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • In an attempt to not kill this thread, I'll say this, "I do not know all the answers, and it is extremely narrow minded (and selfish) to assume that I, or anyone else can know all the answers from the past".

    At least I have spent my time and money doing more research into the subject, and have obtained many pertinent documents and publications about the various US Mints, than you have accomplished with finding a few photographs which you wanted to find out about.

    The information that I shared was for you and the benefit of others who are reading this thread that you started. For whatever reason(s), you are the one who chose to not accept the background reality concerning the images. So be it.

    Now, perhaps others may wish to continue and add to this interesting subject, so that we can all learn with an open mind.
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  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    "The latest image on this thread was taken inside the second US Mint building in 1901."
    -----

    If you will double check this statement by you, you
    will see that, when you said this, the "latest" image
    in this thread was of gold being poured. That is the
    image I thought you were talking about when you
    said it was a 1901 picture.

    That is why I later said that we weren't sure of the
    date of the second mint press photo. I wasn't
    doubting you, I was just misled by you.

    That is what seems to have licked all the red off
    your candy.

    If you had just reminded me that the date of
    the second mint photo has been confirmed, or
    if you had been more clear to start with, instead
    of lauching into a personal attack on me, then
    we could have saved a lot of bandwidth.

    It was never my intention to be "contrary", but
    only to dig for information and speculation.

    ...But, having said all that, my name "IS" Mister Bungle,
    after all, as can be seen here...

    Mister Bungle

    image

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • Sorry to have created a misunderstanding about the images that I was refering to.

    I was simply going by the title of the thread regarding the "Philly Coining Presses..."

    Who will continue with this interesting topic?

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  • tydyetydye Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    Cool thread. Now I have something else to look for when looking through post cards
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DANG IT! I'm just going to have to take my time machine and go back and photograph the coining room once a year (how does midnight on new year's sound?) to document the changes in equipment. Should I start in 1793 or 1794?
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    DANG IT! I'm just going to have to take my time machine and go back and photograph the coining room once a year (how does midnight on new year's sound?) to document the changes in equipment. Should I start in 1793 or 1794?
    -----

    image

    Probably not the best time of the year.

    From what I hear, the rum was flowing pretty freely
    back then, even if it wasn't New Years!!

    Just take a look at the 1801 "Three Errors" cent!!

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    I find this to be one of the better threads in some time, that encourages
    brisk discussion and investigation into aspects of the very beginnings of
    our hobby. I will add some images over the next few days that will
    hopefully continue this discourse.

    Interesting, but frustrating, the question of the long handled cup is a puzzler.
    It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the literature, but my guess is that it was
    used, primarily by the victorian women that ran the coining presses, to retrieve
    samples of stamped coins from the box below the press where the finished coins
    would fall through a channel after being ejected from the die collar. Further,
    from their seated stool they could easily reach the cup, retrieve coins that may
    have been stamped with errors, broadstrikes out of the collar, double strikes, etc,
    all while maintaining their dignity and not having to bend over.

    The large basin placed in front of the press is definitely where the planchets were
    poured, most likely a given number for a specific run and the operator would gather
    them for placement in the feed tube at the front center of the press.

    There is considerable information about the operation of the coining presses in the
    following two books:
    Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan & Peace Dollars
    by Van Allen & Mallis

    United States Gold Coins an Illustrated History
    by Q. David Bowers

    The first image is of an early belt driven steam powered coining press installed at Phil. in 1837

    image

    This is a Morgan, Orr & Co. coining press used at Phil. in 1885, also belt driven on the left drum

    image

    This is a T.C. Dill Machine Co. coining press , electric driven in 1903

    image

    Showing the inner workings of this era press, it is explained in detail in the VAM book
    The 1st image is looking at the press from the front. The 2nd image is from the side view
    with the front on the left and the 3rd image is a close-up of the inner workings, with
    lettered locations of the working parts.

    image

    image

    image

    A--planchets were dropped into the feed tube
    G--planchets fell into steel feeder fingers that carried it between the dies & dropped into collar
    C--reverse die was fastened to the bottom die stake, acting as an anvil
    B--the collar held the planchet and produced the reeding on the edge of the coin when struck
    D--obverse die was above the collar, fastened to the triangle by a ball, F & a cup, B and moved up and down
    H--the friction block controlled the movements of the feeder fingers, which slid from front to back
    and after the coin was struck the feeder fingers forced the coin into a sloped channel, where it
    slid into a box under the press

    The remaining letter parts combined to support the above elements, while motion was provided by
    the turning flywheel shaft.

    To be continued,,, ,,,

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice pix!
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>H--the friction block controlled the movements of the feeder fingers, which slid from front to back and after the coin was struck the feeder fingers forced the coin into a sloped channel, where it slid into a box under the press >>



    This is a very helpful comment. I have been wondering exactly where the coins exited the press - it sounds like the finished coins were allowed to gravity feed downward from the dies into a box. The original photo does not appear to have a box in place - perhaps it is because it is not running and the coins/box have been removed. I am assuming the box would be placed between the two legs of the press frame. It would make sense that a tote pan (those pans with coins and planchets in them on the cart) could fit under the press and catch the output. We used to use those tote pans on small stampings - almost the exact same design - relatively easy to carry up to about 80 lbs of parts.

    If a tote pan were used under the press to catch the coins, it might also explain the cup on the handle. It might then be used to catch samples of coins directly from the dies, to check quality without bending over or getting in harms way.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

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  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    image

    1956 and it looks like not to much has changed, alarm bells and emergency on/off buttons, but the shaker looks to be about the same principle, the hopper feeder is the same, exposed pulleys & fly wheel, planchets appear to be delivered in oval shaped pans.

    OSHA-Guards on all moving parts - By 1970, there were guards to prevent inadvertent contact with most moving parts that were accessible in the normal course of operation. With OSHA, use of guards was expanded to cover essentially all parts where contact is possible.

    Note: The gadget to the operators left located on the left frame is a mechanical counter. You read the numbers as they clicked off in the little round windows.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • bonkroodbonkrood Posts: 796 ✭✭✭
    Great looking Pics, I love old machines.
    image Steam Power
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    Great diagrams, LoveMyLiberty!! Looking forward
    to any other pictures you're uploading!!

    Thanks for the newer picture too, WoodenJefferson!!
    It looks like this guy's loading the hopper with his
    hands, but I'm sure he's got a scoop in his right
    hand and we just can't see it.

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    To continue,,,

    Here's an image of the 1st Philadelphia Mint in operation from 1792-1833. This was taken in 1903
    after years of use in other businesses

    image

    The 3rd Phil. Mint in 1903

    image

    This is the Phil. Mint coining room in 1861, with a lot of help from the women while the Civil War raged.

    image

    In 1885 the coining room was smaller, with less equipment

    image

    Here's the coining room in 1900 when they still had small presses & some larger ones

    image

    The coining room in 1901, going with the "Full Press"

    image

    Here are two more views of presses in operation. These were also made into stereoptics

    1901
    image
    1904
    image


    To be continued,,,
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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow! Several great shots of the planchet reservoirs, which I notice are always on the press operator's left. Since they weren't all left handed, I would guess they scooped them up in their left hands and stacked them into the palms of their right hands. (But then, what if the press operator WAS left handed???)

    Also a few good shots of the cups on the long handles. Obviously they had some regular function, but what????????

    image
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Great pictures of the History at out Mints.

    I did notice in the last picture, the 1904 one where the partly bald operator is pouring planchets into the hopper, well the drive belt for the shaker is not even going through the pulley gears anymore, it's draped loosely down around the bottom of the press. This leads me to believe that this machine was under some type of maintenance and was not even running when this picture was taken.

    Also I noticed on those reservoir tanks that sit on the white pedestals, it looks like there is a hinged door that could be opened to remove any left over planchets. Just pull up a wagon with an empty tray, open the door and out they fall, right into the transportation tray.

    The dipper on the long wooden handle must be used to reach under the lower press yolk to catch samples dropping out of the gravity feed transfer tube for examination and assay.

    Added, Medal Room at Philly with there hydraulic ram and screw press machinces.

    image

    The Medal Room of the Philadelphia Mint circa 1903
    A large screw press may be seen in this detail of a plate from The Unted States Mint at Philadelphia
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the photo with the woman sitting on the stool, you can see what appears to be a tote pan under the press. I believe it is catching the finished coins - the more I look at that photo, the more I am convinced the 'cup on a handle' is used to collect samples from under the press to inspect. She could sit on the stool, load planchets, and collect samples without having to get up.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Great pictures of the History at out Mints.

    I did notice in the last picture, the 1904 one where the partly bald operator is pouring planchets into the hopper, well the drive belt for the shaker is not even going through the pulley gears anymore, it's draped loosely down around the bottom of the press. This leads me to believe that this machine was under some type of maintenance and was not even running when this picture was taken.

    It may have been a staged photo. Nothing unusual about that. Gilroy Roberts and Frank Gasparro were often photographed sitting at a work bench with an engraving tool in their hand and a long-finished model on the bench in front of them.--TD

    Also I noticed on those reservoir tanks that sit on the white pedestals, it looks like there is a hinged door that could be opened to remove any left over planchets. Just pull up a wagon with an empty tray, open the door and out they fall, right into the transportation tray.

    Excellent point!--TD

    The dipper on the long wooden handle must be used to reach under the lower press yolk to catch samples dropping out of the gravity feed transfer tube for examination and assay.

    I agree with that, though as RWB said the assay coins were taken out later. The dippers may have been an accomodation to the ladies, though anybody could have used them. It would make perfect sense to just leave one at each press, since you did not know who would be working any given press on any given day.--TD

    Added, Medal Room at Philly with there hydraulic ram and screw press machinces.

    Love the picture of that screw press! There is an old mint joke, no doubt said with a perfectly straight face, that it takes large balls to operate a screw press!--TD

    image >>

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow! Several great shots of the planchet reservoirs, which I notice are always on the press operator's left. Since they weren't all left handed, I would guess they scooped them up in their left hands and stacked them into the palms of their right hands. (But then, what if the press operator WAS left handed???)

    Also a few good shots of the cups on the long handles. Obviously they had some regular function, but what????????

    image >>





    I would like to revise my remarks regarding the use of the long handled cup. In addition to accomodating the women press operators
    I believe the primary use of the cups was for the use of those who made adjustment of the dies in the press each time a die was changed,
    or needed adjustment. It is stated over and over that this "adjustment required great skill and long experience." Imagine having to bend
    over and reach down below the press each time an adjustment was made & a trial piece stamped to evaluate your adjustment.

    As to the LEFT handed issue??? Remember this is a government run operation & it would not surprise me that coin press operators were only
    hired if they were Right handed! image

    Thank you woodenjefferson for the pic of the medal room. I was going to display one, but mine is of very poor quality.
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the photo of the medal room, until what year was a large screw press used to strike medals at Philly? How long was the screw press used to strike proofs, and for hubbing? Was this screw press fabricated pre-1836? Thanks
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • firstmintfirstmint Posts: 1,171
    As for left handed press operators, they simply turned the chair around. I have a very early steroeview image of a woman using her left arm to make double eagles in my Henry Voigt book, p.51. Unfortunately, I don't have a working scanner to post an image, but perhaps someone with a copy of the Voigt book will provide one for this thread.

    The large screw press seen in the medal room was used to strike Proof coinage until 1894 or thereabouts. As for the timeframe of when it was made, I would imagine that it was made before the 1850's, as George Eckfeldt (foreman of the medal dept.) used this press when hubbing and making medals in his unpublished ledger that QDB bought and sold several years ago.

    Proof coins were made by the medal department, that had over 300 dies of medals in a closet (not seen in the medal room image) when the third Mint building was made operational. There were six men employed in the medal dept. in 1903.
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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Wow! Several great shots of the planchet reservoirs, which I notice are always on the press operator's left. Since they weren't all left handed, I would guess they scooped them up in their left hands and stacked them into the palms of their right hands. (But then, what if the press operator WAS left handed???)

    Also a few good shots of the cups on the long handles. Obviously they had some regular function, but what????????

    image >>





    I would like to revise my remarks regarding the use of the long handled cup. In addition to accomodating the women press operators
    I believe the primary use of the cups was for the use of those who made adjustment of the dies in the press each time a die was changed,
    or needed adjustment. It is stated over and over that this "adjustment required great skill and long experience." Imagine having to bend
    over and reach down below the press each time an adjustment was made & a trial piece stamped to evaluate your adjustment. >>



    That would make sense. Maybe they could fit the cup into some sort of holder so they didn't have to hold it, turn the press on for a very short adjustment run, and have all of the output fall into the cup. Then, if they were substandard, they could be scrapped without getting mixed in with the acceptable coins.

    Just a guess.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Michael Lantz (ex Denver Mint) would likely know how samples were taken during press operation.
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    To continue,,,


    This is a very simplified diagram of the production of coins at the mint, which
    is actually quite a complex process. Most of the following is related to the
    production of larger silver, or gold pieces around the 1900's.

    image

    As bullion, metal ingots, or coins arrive at the Phil. Mint they are first weighed using a
    685 pound capacity scale, accurate to 1/100 of an ounce. When finished coins left the
    Mint they were also weighed and recorded.

    image

    The refinery process is complicated and difficult to describe, having many steps from start to
    finish, so I will offer a shorter version. The Parting Room is where precious metals were refined
    and alloys added to reach the correct U.S. Standards for coinage. Often the material to be
    refined included foreign coins, substandard U.S. coins, planchet clips, sweep material from
    other areas of the mint, processed bullion and unprocessed ore. After reaching the proper
    mix of metal the liquid material would be poured into molds to create ingots, or small bars of
    about a foot long, 1/2 inch thick and between one to 2 1/2 inches wide.

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    These small ingots were then taken to the Rolling Room where machines would press
    them into thin strips after going through several annealing steps. Ingots passed through
    the rollers about 8 times. After annealing again the strips were sent through finishing
    rollers 3 times until the proper thickness for coinage.
    image

    Annealing Furnaces
    image

    Prior to the improved electric driven Rolling Machines and advancements in the refining process
    the thinned strips would be annealed, cut to shorter lengths and drawn between two sets
    of dies on the drawing benches, reducing the strip to it's final correct thickness by hand.
    Sort of like being tortured by pulling apart on the "Rack".

    image

    Now that planchet strips are the correct thickness they were fed into the Cutting Presses by
    happy workers, thus producing round planchets and a lot of scrap material that would have
    to be sorted out and sent back through the refining process.
    image

    The round planchets left the happy workers and went to the Whitening Room to be washed
    in lye soap, borax & water to remove grease and grime and then were steamed and dried.

    image




    To be continued,,, ,,,























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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ttt
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    Alright LoveMyLiberty, we're ready for the next installment of pictures!!

    image

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    Sorry, I was washing my hands,

    To continue,,,



    The cleaned planchets then went to the coining room where they were weighed
    using a Seyss automatic weighing machine, first used in 1860, to determine if a
    planchet was light in weight, light adjusted, heavy adjusted, or heavy. They
    were allowed to be within +/- one grain of the desired weight. The goal was to
    prepare $1,000 lots of standard silver dollars to a weight of 859.375 troy ounces
    with a deviation of no more than two-hundredths of an ounce.
    image

    By 1904 improvements were made in planchet making to produce a more consistent weight and
    new machines were used to determine if a blank was underweight, or over and these would be
    returned to the melting room.
    image

    This is an image of the Adjusting Room in 1901 where planchets with weight deviations would be
    individually inspected using balance scales. Planchets too heavy, but close, were filed off at the edges
    to be within limits. Those too heavy, or had other problems were sent to be remelted.
    image

    The next step for properly weighted planchets was to be taken to the Upsetting Machines, previously
    known as milling machines. Here the edge of each planchet was raised to produce full coin rims. This
    was done by placing the blank into the machine to be rotated and spun around between a revolving
    wheel and fixed cylinder, while it's diameter was reduced from 1 32/64 inch to 1 30/64 inch.
    Edge reeding was produced later in the coin press. Shown is an earlier Milling machine.
    image


    After upsetting the planchets were returned to the Cleaning Room, or Whitening Room to be
    annealed and cleaned again. They were heated to a cherry red, cleaned and then whitened by
    being dipped into a weak solution of sulfuric acid and water to remove any tarnish or oxidation caused
    by the heat of annealing. Yes, that's right! After a thorough rinsing in boiling water they were dried
    and brightened in a Revolving Riddle with sawdust. Sounds a little like ,,, ,,,cleaning!
    image


    From here they were finally ready and scurried over to the Coining Presses to become full fledged
    coins. Full tote boxes would be poured into the basin stands in front of the presses ready to coin.
    If you have been following this saga you know what goes on there.

    During the coin press operation coins were periodically removed from the press boxes and reviewed
    for flaws. After a lot was run on the presses they would be taken to the Reviewing Room and each
    coin was given a ringing test, where each was dropped on a metal plate to identify any with a dull
    sound, which would indicate a hollow spot inside, or split, or some other defect. These would be set
    aside for remelting.
    image

    Finished coins were taken to the Counting and Weighing Room to be inspected, counted by hand into
    piles of ten each and placed into canvas bags of $1,000 and sealed. Coins that were previously weighed
    and determined to be either light, or heavy were kept separate and added, as needed, to the bags to
    make up the legal weight of 859.375 troy ounces and did not exceed two hundredths of an ounce. These
    bags were then placed in a vault for temporary storage after being weighed and recorded.

    It should be noted that proof coinage was made in the Medal Room on hydrolic presses with 350 tons of
    pressure, as were medals and larger pieces that would not fit on presses for circulation strikes. Prior
    to the hydrolic presses, large screw presses were used. Each coin was struck twice and personally handled.


    Samples of U.S. Coinage were maintained on display at the Philadelphia Mint. Here are two images
    of the Mint Cabinet, or National Coin Collection from 1885 and 1900.
    image

    image


    Here is a Transfer Lathe from around 1870 for taking the design to the die stage.
    image

    Here is the Phil. Die Room 1901
    image

    Here is an image of a San Francisco storage vault from 1930 containing 96,000 1930-S $10 Gold coins,
    192 bags with 500 coins each. It is assumed nearly all were melted after 1933.
    image




    These images and the narrative were presented here for discussion and based on the writings of
    more knowledgeable persons than me. If there is newer, or better information on this subject
    please present it to assist in learning about this subject.


    THE END

























    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    Wow, thanks for all the great pictures, LoveMyLiberty!!

    Those stacks and stacks of eagles will sure make your
    mouth water!!

    Great information, and tons of great pictures!!

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice. Thanks for the great overview.

    A lot has sure changed in 100 years.
    Tempus fugit.
  • firstmintfirstmint Posts: 1,171
    About the Mint Cabinet pictures -

    The one with the pencil drawing (found in some of the Evans books), is not quite to scale. The only known photographic image (1876) of the second Mint Cabinet collection was published in the "Henry Voigt" book, p.157.

    The second image of the Mint Cabinet was taken in 1903 when the display was actually open to the public inside the third US Mint building. The cases were made of highly polished mahongany and the octagonal room had a large brass chandelier hanging above them.
    PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    In the picture of the ladies sorting through freshly minted coins, you can see the row of coin presses in the back ground. This must have been a terribly "NOISEY" operation for these workers to endure day in and day out.

    "WHAT DID YOU SAY?"

    Thanks for posting these interesting and intriguing photos of our Mints past.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • JJMJJM Posts: 8,077 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thats image
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37,Waverly, justindan
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ttt, for cause
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Alright my peoples. Somebody tell me what all is
    going on in this photo. It is one half of a stereo-
    view of coining presses at the Philadelphia Mint
    circa 1920s.

    What are the funnel shaped things sticking out
    in the front. Is this where the blanks are loaded
    in?? The guy in front looks to have a scoop in
    his hand and feeding something into it.

    Are those trays on the pull carts loaded with
    blanks??

    What are those water fountain looking things
    on the front left of all the presses??

    What are in all those three legged buckets
    in back of the guys??

    What is the grate looking thing on the lower
    left of the press??

    And what are those two people in the very
    back, against the wall, doing?? image

    image

    ~ >>



    The reason I ressurected this thread was that a colleague and I were trying to guess how many struck silver dollars one of these mint trays or hoppers (the ones stacked on the rolling cart) might hold each.

    I am presuming that an empty hopper was placed under the exit tube of the press before it was started up, and pulled out and stacked on a cart when it was "full." Just eyeballing the dimensions of the hopper, I would guess that it could hold about 3,000 dollar coins.

    However, 3000 silver dollars would weigh approx. 176-3/4 pounds, plus the weight of the hopper. That would be a bit much dead weight for a single press operator to lift and stack. I see no sight of any hoisting equipment.

    2,000 coins might be doable, though many of the press operators shown in this thread do not look particularly strong. Then there are the pictures of ladies operating coin presses, at least so far as to feeding the blanks into the press. I doubt that they lifted up the filled hoppers.

    So, what are your best educated guesses as to how many dollar coins a hopper could hold, and how many it would hold and be considered "full." Please run your guesses on open.

    Thanks,
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <<And what are those two people in the very
    back, against the wall, doing?? >.

    It looks like they are watching Sportscenter on the multi TV display. Who know the Philadelphia mint was home to the first Buffalo Wild Wings .....MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Just think. A Morgan dollar back then was probably a days pay.
    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE: The wealthiest class treats the lowest class and sends the bill to the middle class.
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Pure speculation:

    What do I see?

    1.) Since the trays are stackable, they can be full but not heaped.

    2.) Those holding trays have two handles
    What could this mean? Possibly a two man job to stack full trays, one man on each side.

    3.) The Wagon in the fore ground has three trays, the top tray does not appear to be full
    What could this mean? once the tray of planchets on that wagon becomes empty, the empty tray is moved to the pressed coin wagon and is steadily filled as the coins come off the press. This way the operator never really has to lift anything heavy.

    Full Bag, $1,000, 90% Silver
    26.73 grams x 1000=26,730 grams
    975 oz. = 61 lbs.

    2000 Morgans would weigh 122 lbs plus the box 15 lbs (est. max) for a total of 137 lbs. well with-in the limits two grown men could handle. (on the wagon/off the wagon)

    Volume is hard to figure because in a bag the coins are jumbled and in a tray they lay flat and are spread out. I could very well see at least three bags per tray (3000) but the weight becomes very close to 200 lbs. I do not think those trays could take repeated use at that factor, so I’m going to say the trays held between 1500-2000 Morgan dollars.

    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just picked up some press in Philadelphia, PA dont knoe if they are coin press but they are big 2 of them are 12,500Lb Ea and one is 30,000Lb this is what they look like?


    image
    image


    Hoard the keys.
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    This is just a WAG, but these boxes are only about
    3/4 full, and I can't tell what denomination coin is
    in them, but I don't see them holding more than
    about 500 silver dollars at 3/4 full.

    Actually, I'm thinking 3 to 4 hundred.

    IMHO

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Re: cup with long handle

    I recently located a description that stated the cup on a long handle was used to catch coins while the tote boxes were being changed. This avoided the mess of coins landing on the floor, or the delay created by turning presses on and off.

    I doubt the press operator changed the box. Rather, several of the unskilled workmen probably did this, pulling carts from one end of the row to another. The long handled cup allowed the operator to keep feeding blanks while catching coins during the swap out of boxes. Filled carts would have been taken to the reviewing room where Adjustors checked for defective pieces.

    If correct, this explanation also eliminates the problem of female press operators lifting heavy boxes of coins…they didn’t need to.

    Original quote: ...A cup is [provided]…that it may be swung down to catch such coins as are delivered while the main receptacle is being changed for an empty one. Thus the press need not be stopped nor coins fall on the floor…
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    Wow, that makes a lot of sense!! I'm buying that
    explanation.

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,595 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Re: cup with long handle

    I recently located a description that stated the cup on a long handle was used to catch coins while the tote boxes were being changed. This avoided the mess of coins landing on the floor, or the delay created by turning presses on and off.

    I doubt the press operator changed the box. Rather, several of the unskilled workmen probably did this, pulling carts from one end of the row to another. The long handled cup allowed the operator to keep feeding blanks while catching coins during the swap out of boxes. Filled carts would have been taken to the reviewing room where Adjustors checked for defective pieces.

    If correct, this explanation also eliminates the problem of female press operators lifting heavy boxes of coins…they didn’t need to. >>




    Thank you! One of the great mysteries solved, right up there with the Sphinx, the Pyramids and where do all the odd socks go from the dryer!!!
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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