Hey RYK, the EAC is putting together a guide to the identification of 2x2 envelopes

Longacre

In another thread, board member RYK received a coin in an envelope, and he was trying to determine the source of that envelope and the prior owner. I would need to check the thread again to see if he ever figured it out.

In the most recent issue of Penny Wise (the EAC journal), a member is putting together a guide to the identification of 2x2 envelopes. This member writes, “It has been my observation that copper collectors accumulate, to a greater or lesser degree, a number of 2x2 envelopes belonging to the former owners of their coins. As many of these can be helpful in tracing the provenance of the coin as well as a concrete connection to the style and personality of the former owners, it seems quite useful to properly and securely identify their owners. In view of this perceived need, the project of the publication of such a guide has been started, with the help of … others.” The article then goes on to describe the process for gathering the information, etc.


Does anyone think this is a good idea?
What are the potential pitfalls of such a project?
How definitive would the guide be (i.e., how consistent are dealers/collectors in what they write on envelopes?)

gecko109

So let me get this right.....it used to be all about the coins....then it suddenly became all about the plastic.....and just when there seemed to be a solid, grass roots push to get back to focusing on the coins again, we are now supposed to concentrate on the envelopes? Gotcha!

Unknown

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Longacre

It never occurred to me that this might be a joke. However, it is on page 37 of the recent Penny Wise, and it has a member's name and contact information. I am assuming it is not a joke, but now you have me wondering. It's the January issue, so it is not like it's the April 1st issue or something. Hmmmm.

MikeInFL

<< <i>Does anyone think this is a good idea?
What are the potential pitfalls of such a project?
How definitive would the guide be (i.e., how consistent are dealers/collectors in what they write on envelopes?) >>



Yes, it seems to me to be a good idea. Any study, even tangentially, of numismatics is a worthy endeavor, IMO.

The pitfalls are false associations and other improper use of potentially questionable information.

I doubt the information will be definitive, except in a few cases -- as envelopes purchased in one era could have been unused for a long time, for instance.

For those scoffing at the use of this information, I will point out that it is every bit as definitive as a pedigree on a slab or a claim of "finest known" -- just another piece of information to be validated and possibly a valuable piece of a numismatic puzzle.

KentuckyJ

> Any study, even tangentially, of numismatics is a worthy endeavor, IMO.




It's another piece of the puzzle and as such could be helpful and interesting to those diving in deep waters.

ElKevvo

And remember the EAC train of thought is separate from the mainstream train of thought. There is an EAC grading standard and amongst the more devout/hardcore members storing copper in carefully labeled envelopes is an accepted method (as opposed to slabs). These envelopes can indeed point to a provenance assuming that the coin inside is the one that was there when the enveloped was originally labeled. Hmmm...there might be the hole. But since all EAC member's integrity is above reproach I cannot imagine such an occurrence!

K

RYK

Longy,

That's great news! I have not yet found the time to work on my envelope mystery.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>Yes, it seems to me to be a good idea. Any study, even tangentially, of numismatics is a worthy endeavor, IMO.

The pitfalls are false associations and other improper use of potentially questionable information.

I doubt the information will be definitive, except in a few cases -- as envelopes purchased in one era could have been unused for a long time, for instance.

For those scoffing at the use of this information, I will point out that it is every bit as definitive as a pedigree on a slab or a claim of "finest known" -- just another piece of information to be validated and possibly a valuable piece of a numismatic puzzle. >>


This is an excellent response.

I don't think it's a joke. I also don't think it's foolproof. But I do think it's a worthwhile pursuit...to the extent possible.

As a related example, I have the auction tags/envelopes showing the provenance for many of my coins. The lot number is almost always written on them and can be matched to the auction catalog. They also often have other information written on the tag or envelope that may have come from the auction house or the previous owner. All of this is very good, "tangential" information that adds to the enjoyment of collecting, IMHO.

Shamika

Certainly a good tool for further investigation.

Unknown

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MikeInFL

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Yes, it seems to me to be a good idea. Any study, even tangentially, of numismatics is a worthy endeavor, IMO.

The pitfalls are false associations and other improper use of potentially questionable information.

I doubt the information will be definitive, except in a few cases -- as envelopes purchased in one era could have been unused for a long time, for instance.

For those scoffing at the use of this information, I will point out that it is every bit as definitive as a pedigree on a slab or a claim of "finest known" -- just another piece of information to be validated and possibly a valuable piece of a numismatic puzzle. >>


This is an excellent response.

I don't think it's a joke. I also don't think it's foolproof. But I do think it's a worthwhile pursuit...to the extent possible.

As a related example, I have the auction tags/envelopes showing the provenance for many of my coins. The lot number is almost always written on them and can be matched to the auction catalog. They also often have other information written on the tag or envelope that may have come from the auction house or the previous owner. All of this is very good, "tangential" information that adds to the enjoyment of collecting, IMHO. >>



I disagree in one area mentioned, that of pedigree. Pedigree can be proven in a myriad of ways. I personally only use photos, period, anything else is suspect. >>



I think we're saying the same thing. The point I was trying to make (and I think MLC was making the same one) is that you wouldn't believe a pedigree on a slab any more than a pedigree on an envelope -- both are a piece of the puzzle not to be relied on solely.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>I think we're saying the same thing. The point I was trying to make (and I think MLC was making the same one) is that you wouldn't believe a pedigree on a slab any more than a pedigree on an envelope -- both are a piece of the puzzle not to be relied on solely. >>


I was making the same point...hence my comments:

I don't think it's a joke. I also don't think it's foolproof. But I do think it's a worthwhile pursuit...to the extent possible.

MrEureka

It will be interesting to see how many counterfeit Trade Dollars were in the Norweb Collection! And strange how many of them end up on eBay, along with their original envelopes...

jmski52

One of my envelopes also has a PCGS label inside it. All of my Large Cents are still in the original envelopes, if that's how they were supplied.

I also kept one of the original Jack H. Robinson auction tags with a coin until I sold it a year ago.

TwoSides2aCoin

I don't know what gets more in the way of money. Paper or plastic

joecopper

I can assure you that this is not a joke. The gentlemen doing this project is one of only 12 to put together a full set of Sheldons. I am not sure why you would think that it is a joke. The paper envelopes (not jaded palstic) can contain a wealth of information regarding a coin and its provemance.
I personnaly value the 2x2 envelopes that I have extremely highly - you not only get the coin you get the annotaions of its owner - it is numismatics.

joecopper

PS
Elkevvo

I am glad that the EAC train of thought is not mainstream. Come to Cincinnati in April and you will see the the light!!