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Who is your choice for best clean player of the steroid era?
gregmo32
Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Obviously, this will be based on your opinion, however you choose to define it, on what constitutes a clean player.
Certainly, some will say your clean player is only not yet exposed, and that will be part of the fun of this.
Let the games begin!
Certainly, some will say your clean player is only not yet exposed, and that will be part of the fun of this.
Let the games begin!
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
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<< <i> or Greg Maddox >>
Is that Gary's brother?
If I had to bet my house on one person, it would be Yosh Kawano.
All the players were juicing...heck some even had their wives doing it too!
But I bet old Yosh was clean! I have no confidence in picking any player.
Prior to your post, I had never heard of Yosh Kawano. I looked him up and, yes, I too would bet my house on him. Wow, 65 years with the Cubs. Amazing. I'm sure he could tell some stories.
/s/ JackWESQ
1987, McGwire hits 49 Hrs as a rookie, though not far removed from his Olympic substance testing. ?
1990, C Fielder hit 51 Hrs, first time in many years a fellow gets 50+ ?
1994, Strike shortened season gives players plenty of off-time to think about, or experimant ?
1997, McGwire, already a big guy, and Sammy Sosa, who really got bulked up, proceed to break the all time HR record ?
Would Jose Canseco be a good source for this kind of infrmation ?
MINNIE MINOSO!!!!!
Can you realistically argue that one? LOL
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Looking for Charlie (Charley) Maxwell cards.
I'd have to say Dustin Pedroia. For a guy his size, and a body that wouldn't
make a gerbel jealous, he is one heck of a ballplayer.
Derek Jeter. I would be shocked if he ever did steroids but anything in this era would not surprise me anymore.
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
Glad to have promoted Yosh!
I roll on the floor laughing every time people swear that Pujols is clean. He and Jeff Bagwell are at the top of a lot of lists, despite no positive test.
I laugh at the tests, as they are so easy to beat. They dont' draw blood, and they don't test for HGH! Of course Arod has tested clean lately, he has better stuff,a nd they don't test for HGH. But you guys listen to Bud Selig, LOL!!!
The most surprsing thing in all of this is that I cannot figure how these players are so dumb to use stuff that is routinely tested for, when similar undectectable options are out there. They live to my premise as usual...morons.
Bosox1976
Paul
Like Hoopster said, though, the entire discussion is basically moot because MLB doesn't test for HGH. I cannot believe how many people talk about A-Rod's 2001-2003 years, as if these can realistically be expected to be the only years where he used PED's. And the same goes for anyone else who's built like a Coke machine but 'hasn't tested positive'.
And while we're on the subject, I'm still surprised by the number of people who think Pujols is clean-- or Piazza, for that matter. Who goes from being a 13th round draft pick to being arguably one of the five best baseball players ever? In this day and age, with the amount of information that's available to scouting departments, I think it's nearly impossible for this to happen. Is it 'possible'? Of course. But is it likely? To answer that, you need only look at the draft position of virtually every major star in the game. A shocking majority were taken in the first three rounds of the draft. Servicable players can be found in the later rounds, but almost never do you find a player with Albert's ability languishing on the wire after the first seven or eight rounds.
And what makes all you guys so sure Griffey is clean? Look at all the injuries he's had the last bunch of years.
That's exactly what happens when you go off the juice.
I don't really think anyone can be called clean for sure. Remember the Arod interview with Katie Couric?
Katie: "Have you ever done steroids, HGH, etc, etc:
Arod: "No."
Then he goes on to say what a shame it is about what's going on in the game today.
They are all guilty until proven innocent.
Why do I want to jump through??? Because they do not test for HGH. They don't take blood tests. Any MLB who now gets caught using steroids is an absolute moron, because it is quite easy to get around the test by using other PEDs that aren't tested for, or can't be caught with the current tests.
Just because they tested clean, does not mean they are....UNTIL they take blood tests, and testing is done more stringently...even then it may still take some time to catch up to the drugs that aren't detected.
Dave
<< <i>Boo, I just want to jump through my T.V. or radio every time I hear somebody affiliated with MLB say, "I tested clean the last so and so years," or "The drug policy is working...look, no negative tests lately."
Why do I want to jump through??? Because they do not test for HGH. They don't take blood tests. Any MLB who now gets caught using steroids is an absolute moron, because it is quite easy to get around the test by using other PEDs that aren't tested for, or can't be caught with the current tests.
Just because they tested clean, does not mean they are....UNTIL they take blood tests, and testing is done more stringently...even then it may still take some time to catch up to the drugs that aren't detected. >>
I know. It's a total snow job, and all of these talking heads on ESPN and FSN know EXACTLY who butters their bread, because not a single one of them shrugs off these 'clean tests' as anything other than an unmitigated fraud. If Gammons, etc., has any stones they'd all firmly announce that all current tests results are purely provisional, since they aren't testing for the PED's that the players are most likely taking.
The bottom line on this, I think, is that nobody really cares. That seems a little sad, but it's the only explanation. The owners don't want HGH testing because these 50 HR sluggers would turn into 210 fat-asses if they had to come clean, and their eight figure contracts would become a Biblical waste of resources. The player's don't want the testing because-- well, because they're baseball players, which makes them some of the dumbest people to walk the planet. And if gate receipts and TV ratings are any indication the fans don't really care either.
If MLB were serious then they would a) assign random tests-- both urine and blood- to every player in the league, and they would make all contracts immediately void upon a positive test result (after which time the player and team would have a window in which to renegotiate). They'd also hold all their samples for however-many-years, and the HOF would agree to remove any player from it's membership who was found to test positive for PED's even after their career had ended. You take the PED's out of the hands of the top 5% of the players in the league and I can almost guarantee that eliminates the entire problem right there, because these guys have enough power within an organization to make sure that measures are taken to ensure that the Ecksteins and Polancos of the world don't torc up and steal their spot light.
<< <i>Why do I want to jump through??? Because they do not test for HGH. They don't take blood tests >>
A urine test for HGH has been developed but will not be used until the CBA is agreed on and enacted in 2011.
Position player - either Ken Griffey Jr. or Mark Grace.
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
<< <i>A clean player from, let's say, 1980 to the present? Are there any? >>
rickey henderson..
Steve
Billy the Marlin (...Billy only looks unnaturally bloated!)
rd
...just because Billy's 'kahunas' looks like a pair of 'conjoined shriveled raisins', ...means absolutely nothing!
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
The question that will never be possible to answer is how the other "clean" players saw their careers and potential legacies diminished by the users. Guys like Mark Grace and Roberto Alomar and Tim Raines (again, we don't ACTUALLY know who was clean and who was not) who did not have big power numbers saw their abilities under appreciated by the viewing public who laughed at all the "Chicks dig the long ball" commercials...
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>you mean when downing exploded his power numbers from 15 home runs to 20, maxing out at 29 for his career high... >>
No, when he added about 20 pounds of body mass between the 1978 and 1979 seasons.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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<< <i>Maddux and Puljos are on stuff. Their legs are way too big.
I'd have to say Dustin Pedroia. For a guy his size, and a body that wouldn't
make a gerbel jealous, he is one heck of a ballplayer. >>
your post is so dumb you cant even spell Pujols properly...
just a little info...
pujols was undrafted in 1998 because it was believed he was overweight, out of shape and too slow to play MLB...
so he went and played with a Community college and found a trainer who would get him into shape (lose weight)..
he lost about 15 pounds, finally taking exercise and nutrition seriously, but was still thought of as slow and too Bulky, so he slid to the 13th round and was drafted in 1999.....
he played 1 year in the minors in 2000 (at age 21) and ripped through every level..
he was invited to spring training and made the club as the last selection of the 40 man roster since Bobby bonilla got injured in spring...
he started off hot in April 2001 and hasnt slowed down...in 2001 , Larussa called him the best player he ever saw, and McGwire said he was the MVP of 2001.....(got beat out by cheating Bondz in vote)...
Steroid users have a noticeable WEIGHT GAIN, INCREASED BULKINESS AND A SPIKE IN POWER STATS....
Pujols has had none......HE HAS LOST WEIGHT EVERY YEAR SINCE he got drafted, has trimmed down every year, and has had the most even career stat wise ever (opposite of a stat spike)....
Indeed!! I think P.U.Holes really stinks ...
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