Silver shot up this morning... anybody know why?
ajbauman
Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭
I was looking at the silver chart this morning from Kitco and it spiked from about 11.40 to 12.06 in a matter of minutes.
Anybody know why?
There usually aren't big moves like that without some big reasons.
Anybody know why?
There usually aren't big moves like that without some big reasons.
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<< <i>I was looking at the silver chart this morning from Kitco and it spiked from about 11.40 to 12.06 in a matter of minutes.
Anybody know why?
There usually aren't big moves like that without some big reasons. >>
How about the UK reporting officailly in a RECESSION....Imagine if the US goverment actually "admited" we are in a Recession.. now imagine if they acted like we are in one... where would the PM's be then... just a thought
roadrunner
<< <i>Who is the poster who always says gold and silver are going lower? I need some reassurance because I want to buy 15-20 oz. of gold but at $800 or lower. >>
Good luck with that. Even when spot was down closer to the $800 range, the premiums added $75 to $110 to that price.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
And JP morgan CEO Jamie Dimon just bought $11 million of his companies stock, hardly the sign of a bank on its way to insolvency.
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is the poster who always says gold and silver are going lower? I need some reassurance because I want to buy 15-20 oz. of gold but at $800 or lower. >>
Good luck with that. Even when spot was down closer to the $800 range, the premiums added $75 to $110 to that price. >>
Yeah, that was the reason I didn't buy on the recent downturn, because I thought the premium was way too high. Guess I should have pulled the trigger.
But there's a poster here who recently said Gold would go under $800, don't remember his name but I think he shorts gold and silver.
<< <i>roadrunner, GE isn't close to being insolvent. They're even maintaining their dividend payment. Please try to report accurately, despite your doomsday mindset.
And JP morgan CEO Jamie Dimon just bought $11 million of his companies stock, hardly the sign of a bank on its way to insolvency. >>
And what does $11 million represent....10% of his latest bonus?... Yeah when they are buying in these markets .. Its a sure sign to be OUT of their stock.. They are just giving back to save their own Basses.
Sorry to burst your bubble with the truth but what I stated was accurate. JP Morgan is so insolvent it's not even funny. There's not even a shred of a chance that they won't be bailed out along the way as well. Their balance sheet is probably the worst of all of them, but they are the biggest and are a stand-in for the Federal Reserve. Go read Reggie Middleton on www.safehaven.com. He's called every major bank and broker bust over the past 18 months, and well before the crowd. If you can follow his financial work he lays it all out. Remember that JPM has $90 TRILLION in derivatives bets that have been hardly touched (ie marked to market and losses or margin properly paid up). The fact that GE is paying dividends (probably bonuses and new office furniture as well) is hardly a positive sign. Even Ponzi (and Madoff) knew that you have to keep paying the current investors something to keep signing up new ones to the game. GE is heavily buried into the derivatives scheme as well but it's not as well known as what the top few major banks have done. Hundreds of billions or trillions in derivatives will still be very costly for GE. And JPM's chief buying more stock is hardly a sign of anything except to keep the game alive and spark new money. If he's as good as Paulson was, he probably already has his $500MM nest egg put away so $11 MM here to help extend the game is chicken feed to him.
roadrunner
<< <i>roadrunner, GE isn't close to being insolvent. They're even maintaining their dividend payment. Please try to report accurately, despite your doomsday mindset.
And JP morgan CEO Jamie Dimon just bought $11 million of his companies stock, hardly the sign of a bank on its way to insolvency. >>
forward thinkers not as optimistic at least today towards GE. this is the first time in 32 years GE has not INCREASED its dividend
Immelt needed to raise $15 billion in October...GE was $22+ or minus then
morning star on GE
is this better for accuracy?
(i am not RR's ghost writer)
SORRY for being OT to the OP
All of this information is already known and the spike is WELL overdue, I just haven't seen a move up that large for a few months and for it to happen in the middle of the day in a few mintues was just a little suspicious.
Created On Friday January 23, 2009 1:29 PM
Julio
Collector
Posts: 2071
Joined: May 2006
Friday January 23, 2009 1:29 PM (NEW!)
I'M beginning to think some if some investors aren't sticking there money in PM's over the week-end for safe keeping.
I haven't crunched the #'s but I'm noticing a trend. I'm getting senile so until I or someone crunches the #'s, we better chalk it up to my imagination. .
I started the thread before I spotted this one.
This theory is just MHO.
Take Cafe, jws
<< <i>roadrunner, GE isn't close to being insolvent. They're even maintaining their dividend payment. Please try to report accurately, despite your doomsday mindset.
And JP morgan CEO Jamie Dimon just bought $11 million of his companies stock, hardly the sign of a bank on its way to insolvency. >>
You need to take what RR said with a "grain of salt" .... sometimes his doomsday scenarios are way of base, however, at times some of his predictions make sense. I agree with his JP Morgan analysis, but not with the GE.
Hard to believe. They just wrote a check for over $400K for the building next door to me.
Ray
As far as the doom and gloom goes, things have gone pretty much been far worse than most anyone here predicted and well beyond the govt party line of 2007 and early 2008. With the majority of the toxic debts still hidden on balance sheets marked to myth, why would anyone think that things are going to work out better than the first 2 or 3 innings? It should be considered that the Level 2 securities might end up nearly as badly as the Level 3's. While the default rates will improve from 80-90%, they are also much larger in volume. Here's will volume will make up for improved default rates.
roadrunner
<< <i>Who is the poster who always says gold and silver are going lower? I need some reassurance because I want to buy 15-20 oz. of gold but at $800 or lower. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is the poster who always says gold and silver are going lower? I need some reassurance because I want to buy 15-20 oz. of gold but at $800 or lower. >>
so basically a repeat that happened during the 80s? gold and silver
went up for a while but life continued on.
thanks to that 10 year treasury note bottoming out i just got a mortgage interest rate to drool over.
thanks to the housing crash.. i just had an offer accepted on a house
that is amazing.
the timing is there for other things.. besides just gold and silver.
when everyone wants gold and silver.. i want out.
when no one wants to buy a house... i want in.
it is a rough life being a contrarian. now i just need to pool up enough
money to buy some stocks pretty quick here.
if all goes well to the closing.. i get to move in on the 18th! hooray.
when no one wants to buy a house... i want in.
Fc, you crack me up. "Everyone" doesn't have the sense to want gold and silver - even as we speak. That's why this metals forum is contrarian. Being a "contrarian" within a contrarian forum is about as steeped in "conventional thinking" as you can get.
Most people apparently still want a debt-based economy that depends on deficit spending. In taking out a mortagage to buy a house right now, you've included yourself in that group. And the spending-driven economic model is being proven unsustainable as we speak.
"No one" wants a house because the speculation in housing is done - finished - kaput. Get it? "Most" people want a house to live in, so wanting a house isn't contrarian in the least - wanting a house to live in is still the norm, in this country.
But I'll give you this much - buying a house is an exception to the usual "spending for the sake of spending to boost the economy" in that you get a benefit from owning it and living it. Otherwise - your logic is 180 degrees twisted, as usual.
I knew it would happen.
Nope, we're in a time frame that somewhat resembles parts of the mid to later 1930's and/or 1970's. The 1980's has nothing to do with it other than that was the start of the current credit-based economy.
thanks to that 10 year treasury note bottoming out i just got a mortgage interest rate to drool over. Thanks to the housing crash.. i just had an offer accepted on a house that is amazing.
That droolable interest rate needs to be counterbalanced by determining the real interest rate. I think you'll find that you're net investment rate is still quite negative. And as soon as the current deflation scare blows over, it will be even more negative. On top of that housing (at least here in the northeast) is still falling at no less than 5-10%/yr. Toss in property taxes and maintenance, and you have a very poor investment. Rents are falling as well and are the place to be over the next couple of years for those currently looking to buy a home. Factoring in all the declining portions of home ownership probably gives you a net -10 to -20% home ownership rate. At least in my region, I figure a net increase of 2-5% per year in home values is required to make it profitable vs. renting.
when everyone wants gold and silver.. i want out.
Let us know when everyone wants gold as probably < fraction of 1% of Americans own any gold or even follow its price. Considering that open interest on the gold futures is currently only 57% of what it was at the March 2008 peak (with gold at 87% of the March value) there is still lots of room for expanding open interest while not tipping the cart.
roadrunner
every 5 minutes on the radio. when you pass buy gold buying stores
on the main shopping strip that were not there last year. when people
start shouting gold can double and even triple in short order. it is in
the main stream news rather often now. ordinary people, even one
at work, is mentioning it to me. people are willing to pay large premiums
for the metals. etc..
as for the timing of buying a house.. i had a feeling i would not get
"points" for that here either. i could have paid 230,000-250,000 for
the same quality of house and property size.. that i now got a good
deal at 200,000. In the North East, just a year ago, 200,000 did not
even buy a house worth living in. Fixer uppers. Pass.
Interest rates are at a 30 year historic low when I was deciding who
to go with. Everyone I talk to has a higher interest rate then I. The
most savvy at the moment have a 5.5 which I beat easily. Others are
much higher then that and god only knows why they did not refi it
recently.
There is simply no winning with you two. Every move I make will be
seen through your biased eyes as folly.
It is a good time to buy a home. Is it that hard to understand? Yes
the home could lose a bit more of its value but in this area of the
country you have to understand it before comparing it to CA, FL,
etc.. There is a huge demand for housing here due to people from
MA wanting to move up north for the last 15 years. Work in boston
and live, relatively speaking, in NH cheaper then you can in that
boston metro area. Only a 30 minute drive. etc...
But alas. I expect to get the same kind of thinking when I save up
enough money quick to buy bank stocks, SPY, and whatever else
seems reasonable for the money.
I find it very odd when people on this board think gold and silver is
the investment over all others. Things are cyclical. Right now there is
a chance you are right. I agree. But down the road other things will
have their day in the sun.
I want those "other things" right now. You can keep your gold and
silver.
i was thinking about the move of gold and silver and when gold was at $920 last year silver was about $16.50...
it seemed easier for silver to double to $20 than for gold to hit $1600 a few months back, now, i dunno
"The most savvy at the moment have a 5.5 which I beat easily. " Yepper, that do sound droolable, particularly for a residence you will occupy.
<< <i>"i just need to pool up enough money to buy some stocks pretty quick here." Yepper, you can buy F for less than a "two buck chuck" bottle of wine, you can buy RMIX for less than 3buks, even the dividend stocks are seriously hammered; the deals are out there if you can just stand self doubt and hyperacidity. Not necessarily a good time to go all in but certainly a nice opportunity to do a little bottom feeding. You can have a pretty good time for less than the cost of a half AGE and maybe even make a few buks.
"The most savvy at the moment have a 5.5 which I beat easily. " Yepper, that do sound droolable, particularly for a residence you will occupy. >>
You forgot to mention CLCT ... it was down to $2+ change a couple of weeks ago & I jumped at the oportunity. Yes there are bargains out there other than PM.
the investment over all others. Things are cyclical. Right now there is
a chance you are right. I agree. But down the road other things will
have their day in the sun.
I agree that things are cyclical. Housing has a ways to go to find a bottom, especially in the Northeast. My brother has been looking to buy in Boston for the past several years and I told him back in 2004-2005 when prices were nuts that things would come all the way back and to just bide his time. He's still looking but realizes things have not fallen back enough yet plus his job is not as secure as it was so it will take the right situation for him to make the move. I remember back to the much less severe 1989-1995 downturn when Northeast prices contracted 30%. I don't think we've even gotten to that point yet. My dad was selling a 4 BR colonial in fine condition in a prime suburb of New Haven, CT and saw it fall from $325K to $215K before he was finally able to sell it in 1995.
I have no reason to believe that gold or silver is the investment/speculation of the moment. Oil, energy, or industrial metals might do better for example just as everyone has discounted them completely with no hope of recovery in 2009. I do think commodities in one form or another are a good place to be following the overblown selling in that sector. But housing is not close to finishing up. I figure another 1-2 years minimum but could be all the way to 2012-2013. The banks have to sort through lots more first and they've hardly just begun. But it will be a race between falling home prices and the eventual rise of interest rates to lock in the best deal. Why should catching a falling knife in real estate be a good thing while doing the same thing in all other investment areas is almost always uniformily ridiculed?
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is the poster who always says gold and silver are going lower? I need some reassurance because I want to buy 15-20 oz. of gold but at $800 or lower. >>
so basically a repeat that happened during the 80s? gold and silver
went up for a while but life continued on.
thanks to that 10 year treasury note bottoming out i just got a mortgage interest rate to drool over.
thanks to the housing crash.. i just had an offer accepted on a house
that is amazing.
the timing is there for other things.. besides just gold and silver.
when everyone wants gold and silver.. i want out.
when no one wants to buy a house... i want in.
it is a rough life being a contrarian. now i just need to pool up enough
money to buy some stocks pretty quick here.
if all goes well to the closing.. i get to move in on the 18th! hooray. >>
If you bought your house to live in and have a good paying job to pay for it then you're doing the right thing, if you bought it to speculate thinking a bottom is in then good luck. I bought my house 22 years ago and paid it off in 5 years which as all of you know saves you a pile of cash in interest so hopefully you can do the same thing.
I agree on buying some stocks but again be careful, I bought some MO even though I hate smoking simply because at $14 it paid me nearly 9% to own it, I also bought some Line at $11-23% PWE at $11-20%, BP at $42-8%, CHK at $14-2% and COP at $47-3.5%, I bought EVEP at $11 and sold them at $18 because they had gone up that fast in a few weeks time. I am tempted by the bank stocks but couldn't get myself to pull the trigger on WFC even at $14, I've also looked at USB and GE but even at their depressed prices I'm a little bit spooked by the mess in financial stocks.
As for your opinion that everyone is investing in Gold and Silver right now I beg to differ, one look at the price of the two (especially Silver) should tell you that you are completely off base in your assumption. Why do so many people here feel so strongly about having a portion of their net worth in PM's, I would say diversification and insurance against a currency meltdown. I'm sure you're laughing at the mere suggestion that the almighty dollar could ever go up in flames, well then you are completely oblivious to what has happened to every fiat currency throughout mankind's existence. The only thing the fed can do is inflate the money supply to help service the massive debt load which is the result of a nation founded on consumption rather than production through a strong manufacturing base.
Good luck to you but remember one thing other people may have a different view of the world than you do, it doesn't mean they are right or you are right it just means that in their mind or your mind it is the right thing to do.
The most important thing in this economy for the next 7 years will be to have a decent job. If you have a skill and training, you're ahead of the game. If not, it won't be easy. Period.
Gold and silver may be the best investment out there until the financial system reaches a much higher level of confidence. Right now, the confidence level is still sinking with good reason. And there is no light visible at the end of the tunnel yet.
Congress, Clinton and Bush have all contributed to a real mess. Obama doesn't seem to have any good answers, but he does seem to have a bunch of really bad ones. We shall see.
I don't know why silver went up. I don't know why gold went up. I know what I think, but I can't say that I know.
I think that people are getting worried about any money that they might have in paper financial instruments. I think that more people are starting to give the financial news more than a passing glance, and that many people are looking at their year-end statements.
My fiancee's pension fund was down 16% last quarter alone. She gets matching contributions, so we are leaving it for the time being. Everything else we have is out of paper assets.
I find it very odd when people on this board think gold and silver is
the investment over all others. Things are cyclical.
Yes, most asset classes have their day in the sun, and they also have their dog days. Right now, I actually do think that gold and silver are the investment over all others. Yes, I do. Right now, I can't justify having any confidence in paper. If you can, more power to ya.
And yes, things will eventually change. I have an actual advantage in being able to remember when the dollar was actually trusted. That isn't now.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Buying a house to live in isn't a bad move. Two years ago, it would've been a horrible move. At this point, you gotta live somewhere, and owning is usually a better move than renting.
The most important thing in this economy for the next 7 years will be to have a decent job. If you have a skill and training, you're ahead of the game. If not, it won't be easy. Period.
Gold and silver may be the best investment out there until the financial system reaches a much higher level of confidence. Right now, the confidence level is still sinking with good reason. And there is no light visible at the end of the tunnel yet.
Congress, Clinton and Bush have all contributed to a real mess. Obama doesn't seem to have any good answers, but he does seem to have a bunch of really bad ones. We shall see.
I don't know why silver went up. I don't know why gold went up. I know what I think, but I can't say that I know.
I think that people are getting worried about any money that they might have in paper financial instruments. I think that more people are starting to give the financial news more than a passing glance, and that many people are looking at their year-end statements.
My fiancee's pension fund was down 16% last quarter alone. She gets matching contributions, so we are leaving it for the time being. Everything else we have is out of paper assets.
I find it very odd when people on this board think gold and silver is
the investment over all others. Things are cyclical.
Yes, most asset classes have their day in the sun, and they also have their dog days. Right now, I actually do think that gold and silver are the investment over all others. Yes, I do. Right now, I can't justify having any confidence in paper. If you can, more power to ya.
And yes, things will eventually change. I have an actual advantage in being able to remember when the dollar was actually trusted. That isn't now. >>
You and I have similiar thoughts regarding the dollar and paper investments. I have quite a bit of money in Gold, Platinum, Palladium and Silver, and the primary reason isn't because I need to have it like a junky needs his drugs, I have it to protect my purchasing power should the paper system implode.
I also own 400 acres of prime farmland debt free and have positioned my IRA and stock accounts to be invested in blue chip dividend paying equities with many of them tied to things we need to survive (MO is the exception to the rule). The key is to be diversified so you can survive and hopefully thrive in the years ahead and when the time is right I will dump most of my precious metals and have to try and find something else to invest in.