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Archie Kidd Guide book to silver art bars

MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
Any of you silver collectors familiar with the books? I have a couple signed copies... one of which I paid quite a premium for.
They break down a bunch of ingots and art bars by mintage and rarity... I guess they were published in a pretty limited number.

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Comments

  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    does it list refiners like Engelhard and JM in the book?
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  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>does it list refiners like Engelhard and JM in the book? >>


    Yes & no. It does a pretty good job of touching on all the makers, but it is largely focused on late 60's & 70's art bars.
    There are poured older bars in the book but I'm sure there are more than it lists.
    I have the 4th & 5th edition and I'm wondering just what's included with the 1st, 2nd & 3rd.

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  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's the book. Anyone else use these as a reference?
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image

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  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    I've been meaning to get one but I rather spend the money on silver lol
    Its all relative
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭✭
    What's a "Rariety Value" (see the last column in the spreadsheet from the book in Meltdown's pictures). Is that a combination of "Rarity" and "Variety"?
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    I'm familiar with the rarity scale, the $$ numbers need more explanation.

    Here's the Rarity Scale:

    * R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique"
    * R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare"
    * R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare"
    * R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"
    * R4 = 76-200 known, "Very Scarce"
    * R3 = 201-500 known, "Scarce"
    * R2 = 501-1250 known, "Uncommon"
    * R1 = over 1251 known, "Common"
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm familiar with the rarity scale, the $$ numbers need more explanation.

    Here's the Rarity Scale:

    * R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique"
    * R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare"
    * R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare"
    * R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"
    * R4 = 76-200 known, "Very Scarce"
    * R3 = 201-500 known, "Scarce"
    * R2 = 501-1250 known, "Uncommon"
    * R1 = over 1251 known, "Common" >>


    The $$ is an estimated price over current spot. I believe in the book they are using $20 as a fictional spot price, but I'll have to re-read it to make sure.
    It's been a while since I've gone through it other than just looking up a bar or two.

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  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    If it's an estimate of value OVER spot, then it wouldn't matter if spot was $10 or $40.

    Just tack that listed figure to the spot price and there you have it.

    I kind of have my doubts that it would be a very reliable yardstick as such things are often priced on emotion at the time plus eBayers are crazy, so you just never know.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>plus eBayers are crazy >>

    Amen to that.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    I take offense to that imageimage
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  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, I just looked it up. The rarity scale they use for this book translates like this.

    R-1 - $1-$2 over spot silver
    R-2 - $3-$5 over
    R-3 - $5-$10 over
    R-4 - $10-$20 over
    Rarity 5 will be priced individualy

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  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is cool. I just found an eBay auction for a type of bar that is featured on the cover of the Kidd book. Pretty crazy price if you ask me but still cool. LINK
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is very cool. I'm curious if it will sell.
    For the most part, from the ingots I've seen sell... the book price guide has been very accurate.
    Possibly because it's the only real published reference to collecting "art bars".

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  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What does the book say for the value of that california bar?
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What does the book say for the value of that california bar? >>



    Pretty much what he has described. Issued in 1971, mintage is not listed (probably unkown) , 100 grains and $95 rarity value.

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  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    If you look at what else the seller has, they have other states as well! Very neat!
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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,230 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Any of you silver collectors familiar with the books? I have a couple signed copies... one of which I paid quite a premium for.
    They break down a bunch of ingots and art bars by mintage and rarity... I guess they were published in a pretty limited number. >>



    Never seen it. WHo distributes it?
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Any of you silver collectors familiar with the books? I have a couple signed copies... one of which I paid quite a premium for.
    They break down a bunch of ingots and art bars by mintage and rarity... I guess they were published in a pretty limited number. >>



    Never seen it. WHo distributes it?
    TD >>


    I'm not sure who distributes it. I bought mine a shortly after it was published in 2007 on ebay for a buy it now price.
    Archie Kidd published it originaly.

    Here's a copy/paste of an article I found...

    "Two reference books are Silver Art Bars: An Indexed Guide Book of 1-ounce .999 Fine Silver for the Collector and the Investor by J. Archie Kidd and Tom R. Greathouse, and An Indexed Guide Book of Silver Art Bars for the Collector and Investor, edited and published by J. Archie Kidd.
    Several editions of the reference books long out of print exist, but collectors may have to contact a numismatic book dealer or the International Association of Silver Art Collectors to find a copy.
    The International Association of Silver Art Collectors, founded in 1985, is devoted to collecting the bars and preserving the history behind the bars."

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  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭✭
    "Currently Unavailable" on Amazon.
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"Currently Unavailable" on Amazon. >>


    And has been since it first came out...

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  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭✭
    Ken Potter has them at this link:

    Kidd Art Bar Book
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd be curious to know just what that issue includes. It's the 6th edition and I think full of the more modern produced ingots.
    If anyone picks it up, post the contents here would ya? image

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  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,013 ✭✭✭✭
    Ken Potter Ebay link, the one above was his website.

    Art Bars - Ebay

    Looks like two of them were snapped up earlier today!

    Disclaimer - I have no interest in these sales.

    Mark
  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    The 6th edition is a supplement to the 5th edition. It lists bars produced after the 5th edition was published and some that were not included. You really need the 5th edition Vol 1 & 2 to get the full impact of the book. 5th editions are around $200-$300 each volume, When you can find them. There was a pair listed last night on eBay @ $300 each volume, Not sure if they have sold yet.
    Its all relative
  • SmallTownCoinsSmallTownCoins Posts: 688 ✭✭
    I thought that looked familiar, but mine is not spiral bound...
    I bought mine in 1986 , its the 4th edition.
    Has over 3,000 art bars pictured, pretty nice book....
    Support your local Coin Shop
    LM-ANA3242-CSNS308-MSNS226-ICTA
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    300 each? THAT IS EXPENSIVE! THey need to make it cheaper
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    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • carscars Posts: 1,904
    They are no longer published and are hard to find. They are not for sale often. I think each contains around 350 pages. I would like to have them but I rather spend the money on a 50 oz bar.
    Its all relative
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