<< <i>I figured we'd have a slam dunk on the SP authenic Ed reed.....Guess not..
Whats everyones reasoning on this? Dont like the auto even though there are more than 1K of them? Or......Do you already have the Chrome? >>
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a traditionalist. I don't like writing on my cards - even if it is an autograph. Plus, and probably more importantly, PSA does not allow autograph cards in registry sets like the one we're dealing with here, so it's probably a moot point. I wouldn't expect them to change their policy. Good news though for SP Authentic guys like you, Dave, is that you can still buy the card for a fraction of what it would cost if it were a set registry "have to have".
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I figured we'd have a slam dunk on the SP authenic Ed reed.....Guess not..
Whats everyones reasoning on this? Dont like the auto even though there are more than 1K of them? Or......Do you already have the Chrome? >>
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a traditionalist. I don't like writing on my cards - even if it is an autograph. Plus, and probably more importantly, PSA does not allow autograph cards in registry sets like the one we're dealing with here, so it's probably a moot point. I wouldn't expect them to change their policy. Good news though for SP Authentic guys like you, Dave, is that you can still buy the card for a fraction of what it would cost if it were a set registry "have to have". >>
This is exactly my reasoning...
I do collect HOF autographs, but don't particularly want them in my PSA sets. Plus, if PSA were to allow it, I think it would set a bad precedent and create even more confusion down the road with the cards of today. PSA has autograph sets, even a NFL HOF RC Auto set. IMO, that is where the auto cards belong.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Put me down for removing all Cowboys and Seahawks....wait a minute...there are no Seahawks in the set...(sorry Joe - couldn't resist)...
Greg M. >>
Thats funny!! After the season the Hawks just had.... way to kick a guy while he's down. Why dont you kick me in the balls while your at it Greg.
I see Cortez is gettin some love though, and EX Seahawk Steve "Poison pill" Hutchinson made first team all pro this year, and hawks have the #4 draft choice!
We might be the Dolphins of 09 Greg!
Edited to add, odds are my sig line bet comes down in about..... 6 hours! Have fun at the game Nike!! >>
Wow, what a great game!!! Looks like you have another week of Darnell Dockett in your sign line. Can't wait for the drive to PHX Friday after work, thanks Philly!!!
Brian Dawkins Ed Reed Topps Chrome - tough call, coin flip, but honestly I already have the chrome... Kevin Mawae Jason Taylor Edgerrin James Cortez Kennedy Score Supp. Charles Haley
K. Warner, only IF Cards win the SB (esp. if he is SB-MVP)
Jasen >>
I will add them..If either wins the Super Bowl, we will probably need to have a special "supplemental" vote for addition to the Future HOF set anyway..Warner I would vote for addition even if the Cardinals MAKE the Super Bowl...McNabb, I'd like to see win one first, but that's just my opinion vote.
If anyone else feels either player is ready RIGHT NOW, feel free to add to your previous vote. If you want to wait to see what happens first as I do, we can/will have another vote on one of these guys if necessary.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Kinda surprised to see so many voting for Jason Taylor after his self admitted terrible year. We didn't vote him in last year, and he didn't do anything to help his case this year...
I have his rookie card, just still don't quite think HOFer when I look back on his career...Needed to see one more good year, and he may not have one left...
Just my opinion of course..If the majority wants him, I will submit to PSA for addition.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Kinda surprised to see so many voting for Jason Taylor after his self admitted terrible year. We didn't vote him in last year, and he didn't do anything to help his case this year...
I have his rookie card, just still don't quite think HOFer when I look back on his career...Needed to see one more good year, and he may not have one left...
Just my opinion of course..If the majority wants him, I will submit to PSA for addition.
Jason >>
I voted him last year, so even though he had a terrible year this year I didn't think that took away from what he has compiled previously. But what do I know... At one point I thought Pacman Jones would eventually make this set
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Steve Tasker (made the final 25 three times in the last 6 years) Chris Doleman (made the final 25 two times in the last 5 years) Joe Jacoby (made the final 25 two times in the past 6 years)
None of these guys have the votes to be added...But Steve At-water who hasn't made the final 25 even once in the last 5 years also doesn't have the votes for removal?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I am cool with the supplemental vote idea for McNabb or Warner. I don't see anyone else on any of the final four teams whose status would change in the next 2 ballgames. GO CARDS!!!
Steve Tasker (made the final 25 three times in the last 6 years) Chris Doleman (made the final 25 two times in the last 5 years) Joe Jacoby (made the final 25 two times in the past 6 years)
None of these guys have the votes to be added...But Steve At-water who hasn't made the final 25 even once in the last 5 years also doesn't have the votes for removal?
Jason >>
I think the problem is that many didn't vote to take players out. Maybe there should be a separate thread with removals from the set?
I am cool with the supplemental vote idea for McNabb or Warner. I don't see anyone else on any of the final four teams whose status would change in the next 2 ballgames. GO CARDS!!!
Jasen >>
Hines?
Looking to have some custom cuts or plain custom cards built? PM me.
Steve Tasker (made the final 25 three times in the last 6 years) Chris Doleman (made the final 25 two times in the last 5 years) Joe Jacoby (made the final 25 two times in the past 6 years)
None of these guys have the votes to be added...But Steve At-water who hasn't made the final 25 even once in the last 5 years also doesn't have the votes for removal?
Jason >>
I think the problem is that many didn't vote to take players out. Maybe there should be a separate thread with removals from the set? >>
I took that as they didn't want them removed. They figured all the rest of the voting out, put down the name of who you wanted on or removed...At-water is really the only one who doesn;t make sense for the set right now IMO...Jimmy Smith hasn't even become eligible for voting yet...Terrell Davis has made the final 25 three years in a row...Butler has been a candidate for 3 years and hasn't made the final 25..If he misses out 2 more years, I would vote for his removal as well.
I'd rather see us agree to a set standard..5 straight years, never making the final 25 semifinals= automatic removal from the set. We already have making the HOF as an automatic removal...Modern eligibilty expiring is automatic removal from the modern set and addition to the Senior set...
If i were an outsider looking in, a collctor amybe interested in doing a future HOF set, I would wonder why At-water is there when there is clearly fact based information (HOF committee voting) that says he is not getting enough support to make the HOF anytime soon, if ever.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I am cool with the supplemental vote idea for McNabb or Warner. I don't see anyone else on any of the final four teams whose status would change in the next 2 ballgames. GO CARDS!!!
Jasen >>
Hines? >>
I think if he can get another Super Bowl MVP, absolutely. His stats are lacking, but he's never been a stats guy. 2 Super Bowl MVPs and it is a done deal regardless. As
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Would Warner's rookie still be the 99 Pacific card w/ Tony Horne or will we put it to a vote?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not positive without researching it, but I would assume so. It used to be his best a few years ago anyway...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'd vote for Ed Reed (Chrome), Brian Dawkins, and Cortez Kennedy.
Remove Steve At-water.
If we have to add a Warner card, I vote that he be on it. The bowman best, crown royale, or momentum. >>
I'm sure we will probably have multiple cards to choose from and we will let majority vote decide.
Which Cortez Kennedy card do you rpefer? Score Supp or Fleer Update?
Thanks, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'd vote for Ed Reed (Chrome), Brian Dawkins, and Cortez Kennedy.
Remove Steve At-water.
If we have to add a Warner card, I vote that he be on it. The bowman best, crown royale, or momentum. >>
I'm sure we will probably have multiple cards to choose from and we will let majority vote decide.
Which Cortez Kennedy card do you rpefer? Score Supp or Fleer Update?
Thanks, Jason >>
Jason,
I prefer te Score Supp for C Kennedy. I propose that we vote on Warner just in case he does make the super bowl. I don't think Warner has a clear cut #1 rookie card (e.g. Topps Chrome/SP Authentic) and therefore we have many options. The Pacific card was chosen for the SB MVP set, however is it really his best rc? We don't have the same issue w/ McNabb because his SP Authentic rc is clearly his best non-auto'd rc.
Your thoughts?
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I'm going to change my vote on Doleman to yes. It may be a while before he is elected, however I feel his resume is as HOF worthy... There is such of glut of DL and LB's that it will likely take me several years to be elected.
Rgs,
Greg M.
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
I prefer te Score Supp for C Kennedy. I propose that we vote on Warner just in case he does make the super bowl. I don't think Warner has a clear cut #1 rookie card (e.g. Topps Chrome/SP Authentic) and therefore we have many options. The Pacific card was chosen for the SB MVP set, however is it really his best rc? We don't have the same issue w/ McNabb because his SP Authentic rc is clearly his best non-auto'd rc.
Your thoughts?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
I have no idea on Warner cards. If I were nominating a card it would be the one I know of best, which is his Pacific RC. Looking on ebay completed auctions, that seems to be the biggest seller.
Greg, feel free to start a new thread if you want. Just keep in mind, if Warner doesn't make it and therefore doesn't warrant a vote to the set until next season or beyond, we would probably have to do another vote for which card to use at that time, so any vote done now and not used for another year plus would likely become invalid and require another vote.
IMO, we will have plenty of time to vote on the Warner card if/when the reason arises that we even think he belongs. We'd still need to vote for his addition even if he wins the SB. And just because you or I would vote YES for him based on another SB apperance, doesn't mean the majority would. I'd prefer to wait and see what happen first, but if you or someone else wants to start a new thread voting JUST which card of Warner's will be the one to use if we need to do a supplemental vote on him, I will certainly take part in the voting.
Should probably go ahead and throw Hines Ward onto that thread as well and figure out which is his best card. Again, to my knowledge, it is the same card he has on the Super Bowl MVP set but I know he has quite a few others to choose. I agree, McNabb should clearly be his SP Authentic.
Anyone a modern card expert around here??lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm going to change my vote on Doleman to yes. It may be a while before he is elected, however I feel his resume is as HOF worthy... There is such of glut of DL and LB's that it will likely take me several years to be elected.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Greg, done.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
OK, been 24 hours now with no new votes..So this might be it. We'll give it another day and see if anyone else chimes in. If not, will be submitting these additions to the set to PSA (no subtractions).
These cards are definite and have been voted on: Charles Haley- 1987 Topps #125 Cortez Kennedy- 1990 Score Supplemental #68T Brian Dawkins- 1996 Finest #344 Ed Reed- 2002 Topps Chrome #208
Anyone have any issues or alternate card requests for these player cards? If so please post and we can discuss/vote if need be. Chirs Doleman- 1988 Toops #157 Kevin Mawae- 1994 Bowman #135 Jason Taylor- 1997 SP Authentic #116 Steve Hutchinson- 2001 Pacific Crown Royale #185
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Modern Brian Dawkins Steve Hutchinson Ed Reed Kevin Mawae Jason Taylor
Retired Cortez Kennedy Charles Haley Steve Tasker Chris Doleman Joe Jacoby
Not sure why the quick pull on Butler by some. 12 Seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, 4 All-Pros, Team of the 90's, First D-Back with 20 Ints and 20 Sacks Only Lott on the 90's team has better bio and stats for a Safety and he mainly played in the 80's. Played from 1990-95, but was only voted to All-Pro and Pro Bowls in 90 and 91.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
ADD: Ed Reed-20 Brian Dawkins-19 Charles Haley-17 Cortez Kennedy-17 Steve Hutchinson-12 Kevin Mawae-12 Chris Doleman-11 Jason Taylor-11 Edgerrin James-7 Steve Tasker-5 Joe Jacoby-5 Kurt Warner-3 Ronde Barber-1 Kevin Williams-1 Donovan McNabb-1
REMOVE: Steve At-water-9 Jimmy Smith-6 Terrell Davis-4 LeRoy Butler-3
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Not sure why the quick pull on Butler by some. 12 Seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, 4 All-Pros, Team of the 90's, First D-Back with 20 Ints and 20 Sacks Only Lott on the 90's team has better bio and stats for a Safety and he mainly played in the 80's. Played from 1990-95, but was only voted to All-Pro and Pro Bowls in 90 and 91. >>
Well, he has only been on the ballot for 3 years so far, but hasn't found his way into the top 25 as of yet...If he doesn't make at LEAST the top 25 the next 2 classes, I would vote him off as well. At-water looks to be staying on the set, so I assume that means the majority opinion is that 5 years without making the top 25 isn't long enough to remove a guy from the set. I'll keep putting him on the ballot for removal every year until he either makes the top 25 or gets voted off. That will likely set the precedent for future removals due to lack of HOF Committee support.
Butler is one of my favorite players. He's from my home town (Jacksonville), I've met him and followed his career every since Lee High School in Jax. But, that doesn't necessarily mean the HOF voters are going to vote for him. And if they are not, it wouldn't seem he belongs on a FUTURE HOF set. At least not until he got back into the top 25.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm going to change my vote on Doleman to yes. It may be a while before he is elected, however I feel his resume is as HOF worthy... There is such of glut of DL and LB's that it will likely take me several years to be elected.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
With it looking like Jason Taylor is going to be added, I will change my vote to YES on Chris Doleman as well. IMO, he was every bit the pass rusher Jason Taylor and was much better in run support. That will put Doleman equal to votes for Taylor which is just enough to send the vote to PSA.
Keep in mind, all of us who collect this set will still have to respond to the PSA vote with a YES or NO on the players we select here. The PSA vote is the only OFFICIAL vote.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
3 hours left, if we don't get anymore votes, will lock these cards in as majority decisions and send the request to PSA.
I assume everyone is good with the card selections of the other players that will be requested.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
As far as allowing autographed rookies goes, I would have liked to have seen it for these cards the whole time (as well as for GU cards), but changing it now could necessitate changing a number of cards already in the set, and I'm really not sure how we would treat autographed unnumbered cards (e.g., 2000 Playoff Contenders).
Nick >>
Nick, which cards would need to be switched? Keeping in mind that we are looking for BASE SET cards not numbered lower than /999?
1999 SPx of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1500, and 1999 Playoff Contenders of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1025. I haven't checked pricing, but I believe both of these would outsell their SP Authentics.
2000 SPx Urlacher is auto'ed with a jersey swatch and is #/2000. That may outsell his SP Authentic. 2000 Playoff Contenders Brady and Urlacher are auto'ed and unnumbered, although widely believed to be produced in quantities less than 1000. [My personal anecdotal experience, however, is that I see the Playoff Contenders Jerry Porter on eBay more frequently than his SP Authentic (#/1250), and about as often as his SPx (#/2000).]
1999 SPx of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1500, and 1999 Playoff Contenders of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1025. I haven't checked pricing, but I believe both of these would outsell their SP Authentics.
2000 SPx Urlacher is auto'ed with a jersey swatch and is #/2000. That may outsell his SP Authentic. 2000 Playoff Contenders Brady and Urlacher are auto'ed and unnumbered, although widely believed to be produced in quantities less than 1000. [My personal anecdotal experience, however, is that I see the Playoff Contenders Jerry Porter on eBay more frequently than his SP Authentic (#/1250), and about as often as his SPx (#/2000).]
Nick >>
Nick, based on the voting here on the Ed Reed card, I would say the preference of using auto or non-auto cards has been answered. There are specific sets for autographed cards on the Registry. I beleive the non-auto HOF and Football Key card sets will remain autograph free for the forseeable future.
Thanks for the input, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Charles Haley- 1987 Topps #125 Chris Doleman- 1988 Topps #157 Cortez Kennedy- 1990 Score Supplemental #68T Kevin Mawae- 1994 Bowman #135 Brian Dawkins- 1996 Finest #344 Jason Taylor- 1997 SP Authentic #116 Steve Hutchinson- 2001 Pacific Crown Royale #185 Ed Reed- 2002 Topps Chrome #208
Thanks, Jason"
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
<< <i>No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick >>
Edge was on the ballot. He received 7 votes, not enough for addition. I'm not sure where the numbers line is going to be 5-10 years from now. 12,000 may not be anything special. Much like 10,000 isn't anything special already, and it certainly doesn't get you automatic HOF induction as it would have in Jim Brown's era.
If he can play a couple more years or have at least one more Pro Bowl type season, I'd like his chances. For now, I'd say he's a longshot. Emmitt, Faulk, Bettis and Martin all coming up soon. after that, might be Tomlinson before we see another RB make the HOF. Terrell Davis will be the top RB on the ballot in those 4-5 years between C-Mart/Bettis and LT2..That is when I think his window of opportunity will open the widest.
Davis has made the final 25 the last 3 years and is the current top RB eligible. But he will slide down starting next year with a first ballot Emmitt.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick >>
I personally think he has a really good shot if he quits today, but I am somewhat skewed when it comes to AFC South players. Although the least of the triplets, I think they will all go in. Also, looks like he rested well this year. I think he is a FA and would not be surprised to see him have a couple of more 1K years. That'd put him 4th on the list.
Jas - I know he was on our initial list - I voted for him there. I was referring to him not making the cut to the PSA ballot. Emmitt is as much of a lock as anyone can be, and Faulk should also be a 1st ballot HOFer without a problem. But Edge compares quite well with both Bettis and Martin, both of whom are on the Future HOF registry set, such that I'm not sure how voters put them in and justify keeping him out.
Rushing Yards Martin 14101 Bettis 13662 James 12121
Yds/Carry James 4.1 Martin 4.0 Bettis 3.9
Yds/Game James 86.0 Martin 83.9 Bettis 71.2
Receptions Martin 484 James 430 Bettis 200
Yds Rec'g James 3345 Martin 3329 Bettis 1449
TDs Martin 100 Bettis 94 James 91
1st Team All-Pro Bettis 2 Martin 1 James 1
Pro Bowls Bettis 6* Martin 5 James 4
*Bettis's 1994 Pro Bowl was for a 1025 yd., 3.2 YPC, 3 rushing TD season, and his 2004 Pro Bowl was for a 941 yd., 3.8 YPC season where they passed over several 1200 yard backs including Fred Taylor on their way to making Bettis an injury replacement.
<< <i>But Edge compares quite well with both Bettis and Martin, both of whom are on the Future HOF registry set, such that I'm not sure how voters put them in and justify keeping him out.
Nick >>
Well, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I did vote for Bettis and Martin, but did not vote for James. And here is my reasoning..
For Martin, he has 2k more rushing yards than James..Had Martin retired at 12,000 I would not have voted him on.
For Bettis, he has 1,500 more yards, but also has a Super Bowl ring..If you've followed HOF voting over the years, Super Bowl championships greatly increase the likelihood of a borderline to above average player being selected.
Also, when I vote for additions to these sets, I try and do so from the eye of the HOF committee. I'm not a HOF voter, and I don;t want this set to be me favorites or anyone elses personal favorites..But rather try and be as accurate as possible in predicting which players will get the necessary votes from the HOF committee down the road. I don't think James has been or is viewed as a HOF RB at this point. The yardage totals and stats are really secondary when it comes to the Football HOF. Yes, they count and are meaningful, but are never the sole reason a guy gets elected. If James can make an impact in a Super Bowl game (maybe this year) his stock will certainly go up..If he breaks 13,000 rushing like Bettis and Martin, I will most likely vote him to the set. But after the season he just had, that is far from guarnateed..Just ask Shaun Alexander who looked to be headed to the HOF just a couple of years ago. Luckily we were patient with voting him on, and it seems to have been the right decision.
Maybe next year for James. He will be on the ballot. But as of right now, he's still a tick below Martin and Bettis, and I don;t know that either of them is a first ballot lock.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick >>
Edge was on the ballot. He received 7 votes, not enough for addition. I'm not sure where the numbers line is going to be 5-10 years from now. 12,000 may not be anything special. Much like 10,000 isn't anything special already, and it certainly doesn't get you automatic HOF induction as it would have in Jim Brown's era.
If he can play a couple more years or have at least one more Pro Bowl type season, I'd like his chances. For now, I'd say he's a longshot. Emmitt, Faulk, Bettis and Martin all coming up soon. after that, might be Tomlinson before we see another RB make the HOF. Terrell Davis will be the top RB on the ballot in those 4-5 years between C-Mart/Bettis and LT2..That is when I think his window of opportunity will open the widest.
Davis has made the final 25 the last 3 years and is the current top RB eligible. But he will slide down starting next year with a first ballot Emmitt.
Jason >>
I just wanted to address the statement that 10,000 yds isn't anything special. In the history of the league there have been less than twenty-five 10,000 yds rushers. That number should rise to 25 this year with the addition of Portis who is 800 yds away. After seeing the rapid decline of Alexander there is no guarantee Portis will even reach that mark. When considering how few have reached the 10,000 yds milestone I believe it does stand out as an acheivement. If the schedule is increased to 18 games my feelings might possibly change though and the 12,000 yds mark might be the new magic number.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Comments
Whats everyones reasoning on this? Dont like the auto even though there are more than 1K of them? Or......Do you already have the Chrome?
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Cortez Kennedy -- 1990 Score Supplemental
Ed Reed -- 2002 Topps Chrome
<< <i>I figured we'd have a slam dunk on the SP authenic Ed reed.....Guess not..
Whats everyones reasoning on this? Dont like the auto even though there are more than 1K of them? Or......Do you already have the Chrome? >>
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a traditionalist. I don't like writing on my cards - even if it is an autograph. Plus, and probably more importantly, PSA does not allow autograph cards in registry sets like the one we're dealing with here, so it's probably a moot point. I wouldn't expect them to change their policy. Good news though for SP Authentic guys like you, Dave, is that you can still buy the card for a fraction of what it would cost if it were a set registry "have to have".
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>I figured we'd have a slam dunk on the SP authenic Ed reed.....Guess not..
Whats everyones reasoning on this? Dont like the auto even though there are more than 1K of them? Or......Do you already have the Chrome? >>
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a traditionalist. I don't like writing on my cards - even if it is an autograph. Plus, and probably more importantly, PSA does not allow autograph cards in registry sets like the one we're dealing with here, so it's probably a moot point. I wouldn't expect them to change their policy. Good news though for SP Authentic guys like you, Dave, is that you can still buy the card for a fraction of what it would cost if it were a set registry "have to have". >>
This is exactly my reasoning...
I do collect HOF autographs, but don't particularly want them in my PSA sets. Plus, if PSA were to allow it, I think it would set a bad precedent and create even more confusion down the road with the cards of today. PSA has autograph sets, even a NFL HOF RC Auto set. IMO, that is where the auto cards belong.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason,
Put me down for removing all Cowboys and Seahawks....wait a minute...there are no Seahawks in the set...(sorry Joe - couldn't resist)...
Greg M. >>
Thats funny!! After the season the Hawks just had.... way to kick a guy while he's down. Why dont you kick me in the balls while your at it Greg.
I see Cortez is gettin some love though, and EX Seahawk Steve "Poison pill" Hutchinson made first team all pro this year, and hawks have the #4 draft choice!
We might be the Dolphins of 09 Greg!
Edited to add, odds are my sig line bet comes down in about..... 6 hours! Have fun at the game Nike!! >>
Wow, what a great game!!! Looks like you have another week of Darnell Dockett in your sign line. Can't wait for the drive to PHX Friday after work, thanks Philly!!!
Jasen
Brian Dawkins
Ed Reed Topps Chrome - tough call, coin flip, but honestly I already have the chrome...
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Edgerrin James
Cortez Kennedy Score Supp.
Charles Haley
D. McNabb (5 NFC Champ. appearances in 10 years)
K. Warner, only IF Cards win the SB (esp. if he is SB-MVP)
Jasen
<< <i>I would also nominate:
D. McNabb (5 NFC Champ. appearances in 10 years)
K. Warner, only IF Cards win the SB (esp. if he is SB-MVP)
Jasen >>
I will add them..If either wins the Super Bowl, we will probably need to have a special "supplemental" vote for addition to the Future HOF set anyway..Warner I would vote for addition even if the Cardinals MAKE the Super Bowl...McNabb, I'd like to see win one first, but that's just my opinion vote.
If anyone else feels either player is ready RIGHT NOW, feel free to add to your previous vote. If you want to wait to see what happens first as I do, we can/will have another vote on one of these guys if necessary.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I have his rookie card, just still don't quite think HOFer when I look back on his career...Needed to see one more good year, and he may not have one left...
Just my opinion of course..If the majority wants him, I will submit to PSA for addition.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Kinda surprised to see so many voting for Jason Taylor after his self admitted terrible year. We didn't vote him in last year, and he didn't do anything to help his case this year...
I have his rookie card, just still don't quite think HOFer when I look back on his career...Needed to see one more good year, and he may not have one left...
Just my opinion of course..If the majority wants him, I will submit to PSA for addition.
Jason >>
I voted him last year, so even though he had a terrible year this year I didn't think that took away from what he has compiled previously. But what do I know... At one point I thought Pacman Jones would eventually make this set
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Steve Tasker (made the final 25 three times in the last 6 years)
Chris Doleman (made the final 25 two times in the last 5 years)
Joe Jacoby (made the final 25 two times in the past 6 years)
None of these guys have the votes to be added...But Steve At-water who hasn't made the final 25 even once in the last 5 years also doesn't have the votes for removal?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I am cool with the supplemental vote idea for McNabb or Warner. I don't see anyone else on any of the final four teams whose status would change in the next 2 ballgames. GO CARDS!!!
Jasen
<< <i>The other head scratcher is:
Steve Tasker (made the final 25 three times in the last 6 years)
Chris Doleman (made the final 25 two times in the last 5 years)
Joe Jacoby (made the final 25 two times in the past 6 years)
None of these guys have the votes to be added...But Steve At-water who hasn't made the final 25 even once in the last 5 years also doesn't have the votes for removal?
Jason
>>
I think the problem is that many didn't vote to take players out. Maybe there should be a separate thread with removals from the set?
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Jason,
I am cool with the supplemental vote idea for McNabb or Warner. I don't see anyone else on any of the final four teams whose status would change in the next 2 ballgames. GO CARDS!!!
Jasen >>
Hines?
Commissions
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<< <i>
<< <i>The other head scratcher is:
Steve Tasker (made the final 25 three times in the last 6 years)
Chris Doleman (made the final 25 two times in the last 5 years)
Joe Jacoby (made the final 25 two times in the past 6 years)
None of these guys have the votes to be added...But Steve At-water who hasn't made the final 25 even once in the last 5 years also doesn't have the votes for removal?
Jason
>>
I think the problem is that many didn't vote to take players out. Maybe there should be a separate thread with removals from the set? >>
I took that as they didn't want them removed. They figured all the rest of the voting out, put down the name of who you wanted on or removed...At-water is really the only one who doesn;t make sense for the set right now IMO...Jimmy Smith hasn't even become eligible for voting yet...Terrell Davis has made the final 25 three years in a row...Butler has been a candidate for 3 years and hasn't made the final 25..If he misses out 2 more years, I would vote for his removal as well.
I'd rather see us agree to a set standard..5 straight years, never making the final 25 semifinals= automatic removal from the set. We already have making the HOF as an automatic removal...Modern eligibilty expiring is automatic removal from the modern set and addition to the Senior set...
If i were an outsider looking in, a collctor amybe interested in doing a future HOF set, I would wonder why At-water is there when there is clearly fact based information (HOF committee voting) that says he is not getting enough support to make the HOF anytime soon, if ever.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason,
I am cool with the supplemental vote idea for McNabb or Warner. I don't see anyone else on any of the final four teams whose status would change in the next 2 ballgames. GO CARDS!!!
Jasen >>
Hines? >>
I think if he can get another Super Bowl MVP, absolutely. His stats are lacking, but he's never been a stats guy. 2 Super Bowl MVPs and it is a done deal regardless. As
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>Would Warner's rookie still be the 99 Pacific card w/ Tony Horne or will we put it to a vote?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Not positive without researching it, but I would assume so. It used to be his best a few years ago anyway...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Remove Steve At-water.
If we have to add a Warner card, I vote that he be on it. The bowman best, crown royale, or momentum.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Brian Dawkins
Chris Doleman
Charles Haley
Steve Hutchinson
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Cortez Kennedy
Kevin Mawae
Ed Reed
Jason Taylor
REMOVE:
No
CARD SELECTIONS:
Cortez Kennedy
1990 Score Supplemental
Ed Reed
2002 Topps Chrome
<< <i>I'd vote for Ed Reed (Chrome), Brian Dawkins, and Cortez Kennedy.
Remove Steve At-water.
If we have to add a Warner card, I vote that he be on it. The bowman best, crown royale, or momentum. >>
I'm sure we will probably have multiple cards to choose from and we will let majority vote decide.
Which Cortez Kennedy card do you rpefer? Score Supp or Fleer Update?
Thanks,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd vote for Ed Reed (Chrome), Brian Dawkins, and Cortez Kennedy.
Remove Steve At-water.
If we have to add a Warner card, I vote that he be on it. The bowman best, crown royale, or momentum. >>
I'm sure we will probably have multiple cards to choose from and we will let majority vote decide.
Which Cortez Kennedy card do you rpefer? Score Supp or Fleer Update?
Thanks,
Jason >>
Jason,
I prefer te Score Supp for C Kennedy. I propose that we vote on Warner just in case he does make the super bowl. I don't think Warner has a clear cut #1 rookie card (e.g. Topps Chrome/SP Authentic) and therefore we have many options. The Pacific card was chosen for the SB MVP set, however is it really his best rc? We don't have the same issue w/ McNabb because his SP Authentic rc is clearly his best non-auto'd rc.
Your thoughts?
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>
Jason,
I prefer te Score Supp for C Kennedy. I propose that we vote on Warner just in case he does make the super bowl. I don't think Warner has a clear cut #1 rookie card (e.g. Topps Chrome/SP Authentic) and therefore we have many options. The Pacific card was chosen for the SB MVP set, however is it really his best rc? We don't have the same issue w/ McNabb because his SP Authentic rc is clearly his best non-auto'd rc.
Your thoughts?
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
I have no idea on Warner cards. If I were nominating a card it would be the one I know of best, which is his Pacific RC. Looking on ebay completed auctions, that seems to be the biggest seller.
Greg, feel free to start a new thread if you want. Just keep in mind, if Warner doesn't make it and therefore doesn't warrant a vote to the set until next season or beyond, we would probably have to do another vote for which card to use at that time, so any vote done now and not used for another year plus would likely become invalid and require another vote.
IMO, we will have plenty of time to vote on the Warner card if/when the reason arises that we even think he belongs. We'd still need to vote for his addition even if he wins the SB. And just because you or I would vote YES for him based on another SB apperance, doesn't mean the majority would. I'd prefer to wait and see what happen first, but if you or someone else wants to start a new thread voting JUST which card of Warner's will be the one to use if we need to do a supplemental vote on him, I will certainly take part in the voting.
Should probably go ahead and throw Hines Ward onto that thread as well and figure out which is his best card. Again, to my knowledge, it is the same card he has on the Super Bowl MVP set but I know he has quite a few others to choose. I agree, McNabb should clearly be his SP Authentic.
Anyone a modern card expert around here??lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm going to change my vote on Doleman to yes. It may be a while before he is elected, however I feel his resume is as HOF worthy... There is such of glut of DL and LB's that it will likely take me several years to be elected.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
Greg, done.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I am on board with Jason on removing a player after 5 straight times of not getting in the top 25. Let's make this easier rather than harder. >>
I agree also!
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
These cards are definite and have been voted on:
Charles Haley- 1987 Topps #125
Cortez Kennedy- 1990 Score Supplemental #68T
Brian Dawkins- 1996 Finest #344
Ed Reed- 2002 Topps Chrome #208
Anyone have any issues or alternate card requests for these player cards? If so please post and we can discuss/vote if need be.
Chirs Doleman- 1988 Toops #157
Kevin Mawae- 1994 Bowman #135
Jason Taylor- 1997 SP Authentic #116
Steve Hutchinson- 2001 Pacific Crown Royale #185
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Modern
Brian Dawkins
Steve Hutchinson
Ed Reed
Kevin Mawae
Jason Taylor
Retired
Cortez Kennedy
Charles Haley
Steve Tasker
Chris Doleman
Joe Jacoby
Not sure why the quick pull on Butler by some.
12 Seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, 4 All-Pros, Team of the 90's, First D-Back with 20 Ints and 20 Sacks
Only Lott on the 90's team has better bio and stats for a Safety and he mainly played in the 80's. Played from 1990-95, but was only voted to All-Pro and Pro Bowls in 90 and 91.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
TOTAL VOTERS: 21
ADD:
Ed Reed-20
Brian Dawkins-19
Charles Haley-17
Cortez Kennedy-17
Steve Hutchinson-12
Kevin Mawae-12
Chris Doleman-11
Jason Taylor-11
Edgerrin James-7
Steve Tasker-5
Joe Jacoby-5
Kurt Warner-3
Ronde Barber-1
Kevin Williams-1
Donovan McNabb-1
REMOVE:
Steve At-water-9
Jimmy Smith-6
Terrell Davis-4
LeRoy Butler-3
Card Selections
TOTAL VOTERS: 15
Cortez Kennedy
1990 Score Supplemental-14
1990 Fleer Update-1
Ed Reed
2002 Topps Chrome-11
2002 SP Authentic Auto-4
2002 SPX-0
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Not sure why the quick pull on Butler by some.
12 Seasons, 4 Pro Bowls, 4 All-Pros, Team of the 90's, First D-Back with 20 Ints and 20 Sacks
Only Lott on the 90's team has better bio and stats for a Safety and he mainly played in the 80's. Played from 1990-95, but was only voted to All-Pro and Pro Bowls in 90 and 91. >>
Well, he has only been on the ballot for 3 years so far, but hasn't found his way into the top 25 as of yet...If he doesn't make at LEAST the top 25 the next 2 classes, I would vote him off as well. At-water looks to be staying on the set, so I assume that means the majority opinion is that 5 years without making the top 25 isn't long enough to remove a guy from the set. I'll keep putting him on the ballot for removal every year until he either makes the top 25 or gets voted off. That will likely set the precedent for future removals due to lack of HOF Committee support.
Butler is one of my favorite players. He's from my home town (Jacksonville), I've met him and followed his career every since Lee High School in Jax. But, that doesn't necessarily mean the HOF voters are going to vote for him. And if they are not, it wouldn't seem he belongs on a FUTURE HOF set. At least not until he got back into the top 25.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm going to change my vote on Doleman to yes. It may be a while before he is elected, however I feel his resume is as HOF worthy... There is such of glut of DL and LB's that it will likely take me several years to be elected.
Rgs,
Greg M. >>
With it looking like Jason Taylor is going to be added, I will change my vote to YES on Chris Doleman as well. IMO, he was every bit the pass rusher Jason Taylor and was much better in run support. That will put Doleman equal to votes for Taylor which is just enough to send the vote to PSA.
Keep in mind, all of us who collect this set will still have to respond to the PSA vote with a YES or NO on the players we select here. The PSA vote is the only OFFICIAL vote.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I assume everyone is good with the card selections of the other players that will be requested.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
As far as allowing autographed rookies goes, I would have liked to have seen it for these cards the whole time (as well as for GU cards), but changing it now could necessitate changing a number of cards already in the set, and I'm really not sure how we would treat autographed unnumbered cards (e.g., 2000 Playoff Contenders).
Nick >>
Nick, which cards would need to be switched? Keeping in mind that we are looking for BASE SET cards not numbered lower than /999?
1999 SPx of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1500, and 1999 Playoff Contenders of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1025. I haven't checked pricing, but I believe both of these would outsell their SP Authentics.
2000 SPx Urlacher is auto'ed with a jersey swatch and is #/2000. That may outsell his SP Authentic. 2000 Playoff Contenders Brady and Urlacher are auto'ed and unnumbered, although widely believed to be produced in quantities less than 1000. [My personal anecdotal experience, however, is that I see the Playoff Contenders Jerry Porter on eBay more frequently than his SP Authentic (#/1250), and about as often as his SPx (#/2000).]
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>
1999 SPx of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1500, and 1999 Playoff Contenders of Bailey and Holt are auto'ed and #/1025. I haven't checked pricing, but I believe both of these would outsell their SP Authentics.
2000 SPx Urlacher is auto'ed with a jersey swatch and is #/2000. That may outsell his SP Authentic. 2000 Playoff Contenders Brady and Urlacher are auto'ed and unnumbered, although widely believed to be produced in quantities less than 1000. [My personal anecdotal experience, however, is that I see the Playoff Contenders Jerry Porter on eBay more frequently than his SP Authentic (#/1250), and about as often as his SPx (#/2000).]
Nick >>
Nick, based on the voting here on the Ed Reed card, I would say the preference of using auto or non-auto cards has been answered. There are specific sets for autographed cards on the Registry. I beleive the non-auto HOF and Football Key card sets will remain autograph free for the forseeable future.
Thanks for the input,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
"Request the following players and cards be added to the Future HOF Rookie Players - Modern Football set on the Set Registry for 2009.
Players and cards were decided using "unoffical" vote on the PSA Set Registry Message Board: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=698178
Charles Haley- 1987 Topps #125
Chris Doleman- 1988 Topps #157
Cortez Kennedy- 1990 Score Supplemental #68T
Kevin Mawae- 1994 Bowman #135
Brian Dawkins- 1996 Finest #344
Jason Taylor- 1997 SP Authentic #116
Steve Hutchinson- 2001 Pacific Crown Royale #185
Ed Reed- 2002 Topps Chrome #208
Thanks,
Jason"
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick >>
Edge was on the ballot. He received 7 votes, not enough for addition. I'm not sure where the numbers line is going to be 5-10 years from now. 12,000 may not be anything special. Much like 10,000 isn't anything special already, and it certainly doesn't get you automatic HOF induction as it would have in Jim Brown's era.
If he can play a couple more years or have at least one more Pro Bowl type season, I'd like his chances. For now, I'd say he's a longshot. Emmitt, Faulk, Bettis and Martin all coming up soon. after that, might be Tomlinson before we see another RB make the HOF. Terrell Davis will be the top RB on the ballot in those 4-5 years between C-Mart/Bettis and LT2..That is when I think his window of opportunity will open the widest.
Davis has made the final 25 the last 3 years and is the current top RB eligible. But he will slide down starting next year with a first ballot Emmitt.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick >>
I personally think he has a really good shot if he quits today, but I am somewhat skewed when it comes to AFC South players. Although the least of the triplets, I think they will all go in. Also, looks like he rested well this year. I think he is a FA and would not be surprised to see him have a couple of more 1K years. That'd put him 4th on the list.
Rushing Yards
Martin 14101
Bettis 13662
James 12121
Yds/Carry
James 4.1
Martin 4.0
Bettis 3.9
Yds/Game
James 86.0
Martin 83.9
Bettis 71.2
Receptions
Martin 484
James 430
Bettis 200
Yds Rec'g
James 3345
Martin 3329
Bettis 1449
TDs
Martin 100
Bettis 94
James 91
1st Team All-Pro
Bettis 2
Martin 1
James 1
Pro Bowls
Bettis 6*
Martin 5
James 4
*Bettis's 1994 Pro Bowl was for a 1025 yd., 3.2 YPC, 3 rushing TD season, and his 2004 Pro Bowl was for a 941 yd., 3.8 YPC season where they passed over several 1200 yard backs including Fred Taylor on their way to making Bettis an injury replacement.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>But Edge compares quite well with both Bettis and Martin, both of whom are on the Future HOF registry set, such that I'm not sure how voters put them in and justify keeping him out.
Nick >>
Well, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I did vote for Bettis and Martin, but did not vote for James. And here is my reasoning..
For Martin, he has 2k more rushing yards than James..Had Martin retired at 12,000 I would not have voted him on.
For Bettis, he has 1,500 more yards, but also has a Super Bowl ring..If you've followed HOF voting over the years, Super Bowl championships greatly increase the likelihood of a borderline to above average player being selected.
Also, when I vote for additions to these sets, I try and do so from the eye of the HOF committee. I'm not a HOF voter, and I don;t want this set to be me favorites or anyone elses personal favorites..But rather try and be as accurate as possible in predicting which players will get the necessary votes from the HOF committee down the road. I don't think James has been or is viewed as a HOF RB at this point. The yardage totals and stats are really secondary when it comes to the Football HOF. Yes, they count and are meaningful, but are never the sole reason a guy gets elected. If James can make an impact in a Super Bowl game (maybe this year) his stock will certainly go up..If he breaks 13,000 rushing like Bettis and Martin, I will most likely vote him to the set. But after the season he just had, that is far from guarnateed..Just ask Shaun Alexander who looked to be headed to the HOF just a couple of years ago. Luckily we were patient with voting him on, and it seems to have been the right decision.
Maybe next year for James. He will be on the ballot. But as of right now, he's still a tick below Martin and Bettis, and I don;t know that either of them is a first ballot lock.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>No worries. It certainly makes collecting this set cheaper.
BTW, what do people here think about Edgerrin James's chances for the HOF? I was surprised not to see him on the list to be voted on.
He only has 4 Pro Bowls and 1 1st team All-Pro selection, but he does have 91 total TDs and over 12000 yards rushing (11th place currently, less than 200 yards shy of Jim Brown for 8th place).
Nick >>
Edge was on the ballot. He received 7 votes, not enough for addition. I'm not sure where the numbers line is going to be 5-10 years from now. 12,000 may not be anything special. Much like 10,000 isn't anything special already, and it certainly doesn't get you automatic HOF induction as it would have in Jim Brown's era.
If he can play a couple more years or have at least one more Pro Bowl type season, I'd like his chances. For now, I'd say he's a longshot. Emmitt, Faulk, Bettis and Martin all coming up soon. after that, might be Tomlinson before we see another RB make the HOF. Terrell Davis will be the top RB on the ballot in those 4-5 years between C-Mart/Bettis and LT2..That is when I think his window of opportunity will open the widest.
Davis has made the final 25 the last 3 years and is the current top RB eligible. But he will slide down starting next year with a first ballot Emmitt.
Jason >>
I just wanted to address the statement that 10,000 yds isn't anything special. In the history of the league there have been less than twenty-five 10,000 yds rushers. That number should rise to 25 this year with the addition of Portis who is 800 yds away. After seeing the rapid decline of Alexander there is no guarantee Portis will even reach that mark. When considering how few have reached the 10,000 yds milestone I believe it does stand out as an acheivement. If the schedule is increased to 18 games my feelings might possibly change though and the 12,000 yds mark might be the new magic number.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.