Hoopster - I do not know where you are getting the top 10 stat but the Giants ranked 17th in giving up points last season. If you want to include yards against I am certain some of the Patriot Super Bowl teams were not in the top 10.
Also, it is unfair to diss Terry Bradshaw in this discussion. The Steeler offense was based (at least in the later years) on having a quarterback who could throw the deep pass. Nobody in pro football history threw a deep ball better than Bradshaw. Bradshaw is far better suited for the Steelers offense than any other quarterback.
No other player on the field effects the outcome of the game more than the QB. His on field decissions and play more often than not will determine the game. I don't care how great your defensive plays or whatever. He gets all the glory or all the blame. Thats just the way it is.
Look at that Cowboy/Steeler game two weeks ago. The Cowboys Defense DOMINATED that Steeler offense and the Game. Up by 10 with 7 minutes to go and thats a game you should win. No matter how Great that Cowboy Defense played there was nothing they could do when their QB(Romo) made bad decissions and mistakes to cost them the game.
Here is my formula for determining weather you are a candidate for the Top 10 QB list.
Playoff and Championship play How many times you led your team to the Playoffs and beyond. Winning 1, 2 or 3 Championships/SB IS NOT the determining FACTOR, BUT, You can't be considered for the Greatest if you never laid claim to the Greatest Prize at least once. Winning is what the "GREATEST" do reguardless of the circumstances. They overcome and find a way.
The Intangibles The ability to lead. an on field presence and ability to make those around you play beyond their ablities. The ability to make those around you BELIEVE they can win. Unitas had it, Starr had it, Montana had it as well.
Franchise and Social Impact Unitas ushering in the televison age of the NFL with the 57 Chamionship game. Namath's Guarantee and the brash social impact. Staubach redefined the Cowboys into "America's Team". Montana's West coast Dynasty. All had a certain charisma and transended the Game to become household names.
The Numbers Obviously you need to post some career numbers. Regular season numbers take a back seat to Post season numbers for the obvious reasons. Numbers are fine and look good on paper but if they don't result in playoff and Championship wins they aren't really worth the paper they are wrote on. Numbers are the most misleading aspect to me. Especially amoung Modern Day QB's who I think GREATLY benefit from the rule changes that promoted more scoring. It gives them an advantage over the defense that QB's from the "Dead Ball" era never had. Hell, There's average Joe blow QB's nowdays throwing for 3000 yds.
So now let's see.....According to my formula....... carry the 1.... divided by pie...... 4^9 = 52.7555.. invert and multiple..... Yup thats correct
Roger Staubach is the Greatest QB Ive ever seen play the game.
I didn't realize the Giants and Colts had those rankings.
Bigreddog, I agree about Staubach.
I don't agree that just because a guy hasn't won a Super Bowl that it means he doesn't have those intagibles you speak of. THe reality is most likely that he didn't have a good enough set of teammates, or things just didn't fall his way in the post season, either by getting stuck playing a superior team, or just plain dumb luck, chance or circumstance. Mainly Marino or Tarkenton are those guys.
I'm going to start by saying Frank Ryan is not on any short list for the "Greatest QB of All Time"...
But growing up in Cleveland, as a kid, and watching Frank Ryan "at the helm" for 6+ years was just super!
Ryan compiled a record of 52-22-2, while in Cleveland (1962-1968)
Before Cleveland, he "warmed the bench" for 4 years with the St. Louis Rams. He was able to put-up a 5-2-1 record, over that period, before being traded to the Browns in 1962.
Frank Ryan didn't have HOF numbers, like soooooooo many QBs mentioned on this thread, but as a kid watching him win over 50 games in Cleveland,
...as a kid for those few years, I thought Frank Ryan was a "football God"!
A 9-1 Won/loss playoff record. Five NFL Championships in a eight year span. Two Super Bowl MVP's. The highest QB rating in NFL playoff history.
My pick is Bart Starr. Call him a game manager or whatever. He simply lead his teams to wins when they counted the most. That's what you expect a great quarterback to do.
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Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The super bowl thing doesn't hold water.
Sincerely,
Ted Williams
<< <i>Like i said before, NO QB has won a Super Bowl without a top ten defense. >>
2006 Indianapolis Colts; 23rd and 21st ranked defense in points and yards.
/s/ JackWESQ
Also, it is unfair to diss Terry Bradshaw in this discussion. The Steeler offense was based (at least in the later years) on having a quarterback who could throw the deep pass. Nobody in pro football history threw a deep ball better than Bradshaw. Bradshaw is far better suited for the Steelers offense than any other quarterback.
Look at that Cowboy/Steeler game two weeks ago. The Cowboys Defense DOMINATED that Steeler offense and the Game. Up by 10 with 7 minutes to go and thats a game you should win. No matter how Great that Cowboy Defense played there was nothing they could do when their QB(Romo) made bad decissions and mistakes to cost them the game.
Here is my formula for determining weather you are a candidate for the Top 10 QB list.
Playoff and Championship play
How many times you led your team to the Playoffs and beyond. Winning 1, 2 or 3 Championships/SB IS NOT the determining FACTOR, BUT,
You can't be considered for the Greatest if you never laid claim to the Greatest Prize at least once. Winning is what the "GREATEST" do
reguardless of the circumstances. They overcome and find a way.
The Intangibles
The ability to lead. an on field presence and ability to make those around you play beyond their ablities. The ability to make those
around you BELIEVE they can win. Unitas had it, Starr had it, Montana had it as well.
Franchise and Social Impact
Unitas ushering in the televison age of the NFL with the 57 Chamionship game. Namath's Guarantee and the brash social impact.
Staubach redefined the Cowboys into "America's Team". Montana's West coast Dynasty. All had a certain charisma and transended
the Game to become household names.
The Numbers
Obviously you need to post some career numbers. Regular season numbers take a back seat to Post season numbers for the obvious reasons. Numbers are fine and look good on paper but if they don't result in playoff and Championship wins they aren't really worth the paper they are wrote on. Numbers are the most misleading aspect to me. Especially amoung Modern Day QB's who I think GREATLY benefit from the rule changes that promoted more scoring. It gives them an advantage over the defense that QB's from the "Dead Ball" era never had. Hell, There's average Joe blow QB's nowdays throwing for 3000 yds.
So now let's see.....According to my formula....... carry the 1.... divided by pie...... 4^9 = 52.7555.. invert and multiple..... Yup thats correct
Roger Staubach is the Greatest QB Ive ever seen play the game.
I didn't realize the Giants and Colts had those rankings.
Bigreddog, I agree about Staubach.
I don't agree that just because a guy hasn't won a Super Bowl that it means he doesn't have those intagibles you speak of. THe reality is most likely that he didn't have a good enough set of teammates, or things just didn't fall his way in the post season, either by getting stuck playing a superior team, or just plain dumb luck, chance or circumstance. Mainly Marino or Tarkenton are those guys.
I'm going to start by saying Frank Ryan is not on any short list for the "Greatest QB of All Time"...
But growing up in Cleveland, as a kid, and watching Frank Ryan "at the helm" for 6+ years was just super!
Ryan compiled a record of 52-22-2, while in Cleveland (1962-1968)
Before Cleveland, he "warmed the bench" for 4 years with the St. Louis Rams. He was able to put-up a 5-2-1 record, over that period, before being traded to the Browns in 1962.
Frank Ryan didn't have HOF numbers, like soooooooo many QBs mentioned on this thread, but as a kid watching him win over 50 games in Cleveland,
...as a kid for those few years, I thought Frank Ryan was a "football God"!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
At his best in the playoffs, when it counts.
A 9-1 Won/loss playoff record. Five NFL Championships in a eight year span. Two Super Bowl MVP's.
The highest QB rating in NFL playoff history.
My pick is Bart Starr. Call him a game manager or whatever. He simply lead his teams to wins when they counted the most. That's what you expect a great quarterback to do.
And thats why he was included in my top 5 list