Who is the Greatest QB of All Time???

mickeymantle24

Peyton Manning???

perkdog

My top 5- I will not give one guy the absolute #1

Tom Brady
Steve Young
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Peyton Manning

KOBEcollector

Perk ,

No Unitas or Marino ?

BigRedMachine

Just 5? That's tough.

I'll go, in no particular order:

Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Sammy Baugh
Dan Marino
Peyton Manning

But that leaves out Brady, Elway, Favre, Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Aikman, Fouts, Tittle, and Baugh.

Let the record show, as I've had this debate before, that I think the NFL is the ultimate TEAM sport, and championships are won by more than one player. Thus, Marino makes my list, whether in won the Super Bowl or not. I'll take Marino or Fouts over Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

BigRedMachine

<< <i>Perk ,

No Unitas or Marino ? >>



Dang, my thoughts exactly. I think we posted at the same time.

perkdog

<< <i>Perk ,

No Unitas or Marino ? >>



I love both of them as far as all-time greats go but I would take one of my top 5 mentioned over them.

Making these lists are very difficult let alone making a "Who is the Greatest QB of All Time" pick! I think in any Football debate a TOP 10 list is the ONLY way to go.

My top 10

Tom Brady
Steve Young
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Sammy Baugh
Warren Moon
Dan Marino
Favre- ( gotta respect his durability and #'s )

Darin

You can't compare QB's of different generations. The rules change too much.
When John Unitas played, if a QB completed 55% of his passes, that was great. Today its terrible, as the good QB's complete 65-70 %.

perkdog

<< <i>You can't compare QB's of different generations. The rules change too much.
When John Unitas played, if a QB completed 55% of his passes, that was great. Today its terrible, as the good QB's complete 65-70 %. >>




Agreed thats why I think any list should be a "Top Ten" list

joestalin

Marino....period

Darin

<< <i>

<< <i>You can't compare QB's of different generations. The rules change too much.
When John Unitas played, if a QB completed 55% of his passes, that was great. Today its terrible, as the good QB's complete 65-70 %. >>




Agreed thats why I think any list should be a "Top Ten" list >>



Its a matter of perspective also. You're a Pats fan, so you've got Brady very high. I'm a Chiefs fan, and I remember John Elway making miracle plays on a regular basis to beat the Chiefs, so I would have him high on that list.
Also being a Chiefs fan I would have the very underrated Len Dawson on the list. The best AFL quarterback ever.

BigDaddyBowman

Otto Graham his record of winning says it all....10 championship appearances in 10 years...no one will ever come close to that record again.

estang

In 2002 SI did a cover story on this very subject. Unitas was the winner. There was fairly involved formula to weigh the best of the best. I wished I kept the magazine as it was a very good read. Unfortunately I cannot find the story/rankings on the internet.

Publius

Johnny Unitas - all time best as voted by hall of famers
Otto Graham - winning record speaks for itself
Dan Marino - stat monster!
Peyton Manning - best study of the game, period
Tom Brady -- you cant sweep 3 SB wins under the rug

IMHO, of course

joe

stevek

Montana. Case closed.

jdip9

I don't know enough about the old-timers to make an informed decision, but in the last 20 years, I think Elway and Brady are ahead of Young, Montana, Manning only because they had less to work with...those other guys had Hall-of-Famers and Pro Bowlers up and down their offensive roster....Brady won 3 Super Bowls with Troy Brown as his best reciever (no disrespect to Troy, but he's no Rice, Taylor, Harrison, Wayne, etc).

Once Elway and Brady got just one other superstar around them, they went to another level stat-wise (and for Elway ring-wise).

TravelingWilbury

Charlie Brown.

bman90278

I think you have to have a top 10 list and I think it's still premature to have Brady on there yet. I was initially thinking the same on Peyton, but he's already passing up career stats what HOF QB's did during their whole career. If Brady doesn't win any other Super Bowl, but stays even close to his current stats for another 5 or 6 years, then he's certainly in the Top 10. I gotta feeling that Brady or Peyton will finish as one of the greatest ever.

Here are guys I think are in the Top 10: In no order and based on guys I watched during their career.

Dan Marino
Steve Young
Peyton Manning
Joe Montana
John Elway
Brett Farve
Troy Aikman (His career stats plus he Won Super Bowls and his teams won more games during an entire decade than any team in NFL history)

I never saw Unitas, Blaugh or Graham play, but I would think they should be in the Top 10

AkbarClone

QB who at least deserves some mention:

Leadership abilities
Calm under pressure
Great "2 minute" offense QB
Got a couple of Super Bowl rings
Shortened career because of serving in the military after college


........................................Roger Staubach


Not the greatest of all time--but my favorite.



Now back to your discussions.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>Montana. Case closed. >>



I would have to agree. Montana was very special in college too. I don't think I ever saw a guy who could manage
a game and drive his team to victory better then Montana. Did anyone see Notre Dame against Houston in that frigid
Cotton Bowl ? He had it back then too.

larryallen73

I always liked Dan Fouts.

hobart4281

<< <i>QB who at least deserves some mention:

Leadership abilities
Calm under pressure
Great "2 minute" offense QB
Got a couple of Super Bowl rings
Shortened career because of serving in the military after college


........................................Roger Staubach


Not the greatest of all time--but my favorite.





Now back to your discussions. >>



Now that's what I talking about! Roger Staubach was, and always will be, my all-time favorite...

rbdjr1

What a pair of 1984 Rookies!

Odds: "pick-em"

rd

Barndog

I'm a simple person when it comes to questions like this. So I ask, "Which QB won the most superbowls?" That's just me.

IchiroDeported

Elway doesnt belong, overrated.

rbdjr1

<< <i>Elway doesnt belong, overrated. >>



John Elway

First overall draft pick in 1983
Led Denver to record 47 fourth quarter comebacks
NFL's Most Valuable Player, 1987
Named All-Pro, 1987
Second-team All-NFL three times
All-AFC four times
Elected to nine Pro Bowls
51,475 yards
300 touchdowns
Started five Super Bowls
MVP, Super Bowl XXXIII



Elway doesn't belong? My @.ss! (How many QBs started 5 superbowls? (Montana!) Not too many! LOL!)


rd

P.S. Dan Marino was ok too!

Miami's first round pick, 1983
Most prolific passer in NFL history
4,967 completions
8,358 attempts for 61,361 yards
420 touchdowns
First player ever to pass for 5,000 yards in a season,
threw then-record 48 TDs, 1984 (rookie!)
Recorded thirteen 3,000-yard seasons
First or second team All-Pro eight times
All-AFC six times
Selected to nine Pro Bowls

joestalin

People always mention super bowls..you know what, football is a team sport! You have to have a great defense, I don't care who you QB is. I ask you all this:

How many Super Bowls does John Elway win without Terrell Davis..oh and take away Rod Smith too. Anyone remember Elway before the two SB runs? I do..he sucked!

How many Super Bowls does Montana win, if you substited Jerry Rice with Mark Duper?

Care to take away Emmitt Smith from Aikman?

now, who is the one QB still in this converstion who NEVER played with a hall of famer on his offense yes STILL put up mind blowing stats?

Thanks
JS

perkdog

<< <i>People always mention super bowls..you know what, football is a team sport! You have to have a great defense, I don't care who you QB is. I ask you all this:

How many Super Bowls does John Elway win without Terrell Davis..oh and take away Rod Smith too. Anyone remember Elway before the two SB runs? I do..he sucked!

How many Super Bowls does Montana win, if you substited Jerry Rice with Mark Duper?

Care to take away Emmitt Smith from Aikman?

now, who is the one QB still in this converstion who NEVER played with a hall of famer on his offense yes STILL put up mind blowing stats?

Thanks
JS >>




Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls without a high powered offense behind him- you can take away any of his receivers or running backs and he still would have won those games. Your Joe Montana anoligy replacing Rice with Duper? Montan still would have won- he had MONSTER teams behind him!

joestalin

<< <i>

<< <i>People always mention super bowls..you know what, football is a team sport! You have to have a great defense, I don't care who you QB is. I ask you all this:

How many Super Bowls does John Elway win without Terrell Davis..oh and take away Rod Smith too. Anyone remember Elway before the two SB runs? I do..he sucked!

How many Super Bowls does Montana win, if you substited Jerry Rice with Mark Duper?

Care to take away Emmitt Smith from Aikman?

now, who is the one QB still in this converstion who NEVER played with a hall of famer on his offense yes STILL put up mind blowing stats?

Thanks
JS >>



When Brady puts up the stats that Marino did then we can talk!

Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls without a high powered offense behind him- you can take away any of his receivers or running backs and he still would have won those games. Your Joe Montana anoligy replacing Rice with Duper? Montan still would have won- he had MONSTER teams behind him! >>

perkdog

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>People always mention super bowls..you know what, football is a team sport! You have to have a great defense, I don't care who you QB is. I ask you all this:

How many Super Bowls does John Elway win without Terrell Davis..oh and take away Rod Smith too. Anyone remember Elway before the two SB runs? I do..he sucked!

How many Super Bowls does Montana win, if you substited Jerry Rice with Mark Duper?

Care to take away Emmitt Smith from Aikman?

now, who is the one QB still in this converstion who NEVER played with a hall of famer on his offense yes STILL put up mind blowing stats?

Thanks
JS >>



When Brady puts up the stats that Marino did then we can talk!

Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls without a high powered offense behind him- you can take away any of his receivers or running backs and he still would have won those games. Your Joe Montana anoligy replacing Rice with Duper? Montan still would have won- he had MONSTER teams behind him! >>

>>




When Marino wins 3 Super Bowls or at least throws 50 TD's in a Season then we can really talk!

Thanks

BigDaddyBowman

<< <i>I'm a simple person when it comes to questions like this. So I ask, "Which QB won the most superbowls?" That's just me. >>



How is this for a stat?:

Otto Graham went to 10 straight championship games (Superbowls of their day) winning 7 titles. He was a 10x All-Pro selection (1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955)

Can anyone top those numbers?

perkdog

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm a simple person when it comes to questions like this. So I ask, "Which QB won the most superbowls?" That's just me. >>



How is this for a stat?:

Otto Graham went to 10 straight championship games (Superbowls of their day) winning 7 titles. He was a 10x All-Pro selection (1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955)

Can anyone top those numbers? >>




Nope and nobody ever will Ryan! Otto played in a different era when there were far less talented teams in the same league as him and his Browns- The Rams had alot of talent along with the Lions but the rest of the league was not that strong.

BigDaddyBowman

I don't buy that argument...the only way you can compare players of differant era's is by comparing how they do against their contemporaries....yes Graham and the Brown's were the dominant team of their decade..just like most of the quarterbacks already mentioned. No quarterback faired better against their contemporaries as Graham did against his contemporaries. If you wan't a winner to be quarterback..then you want Graham. 10 years, 10 all-pros, 10 championship games....that is just a "WOW" stat to me.

What about the early 50's Eagles? The AAFC 49ers as well. They were tough as well.

Saying the teams in the Browns era were not very good is like saying that the 70's Steelerrs wern't that good...only the Raiders and Dolphins in the AFC were good...and only the Cowboys and Vikings were good in the NFC.

joestalin

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>People always mention super bowls..you know what, football is a team sport! You have to have a great defense, I don't care who you QB is. I ask you all this:

How many Super Bowls does John Elway win without Terrell Davis..oh and take away Rod Smith too. Anyone remember Elway before the two SB runs? I do..he sucked!

How many Super Bowls does Montana win, if you substited Jerry Rice with Mark Duper?

Care to take away Emmitt Smith from Aikman?

now, who is the one QB still in this converstion who NEVER played with a hall of famer on his offense yes STILL put up mind blowing stats?

Thanks
JS >>



When Brady puts up the stats that Marino did then we can talk!

If Marino had Moss and Welker, and played in that crap divison you all had the past few years, he would of thrown for a 100 TD's!

Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls without a high powered offense behind him- you can take away any of his receivers or running backs and he still would have won those games. Your Joe Montana anoligy replacing Rice with Duper? Montan still would have won- he had MONSTER teams behind him! >>

>>




When Marino wins 3 Super Bowls or at least throws 50 TD's in a Season then we can really talk!

Thanks >>

perkdog

Kevin until you learn how to properly quote- I refuse to continue this banter.

bigreddog

I usually eliminate most of the modern day QB's Just for the fact the the rules have been changed so drastically
over the years to help protect them from injury. Also the many rule changes that were made to enhance scoring
have given todays QB's and Offenses and almost unfair advantage. MOST of Todays cream Puff QB's would never have those kind of numbers if they had to play in the old days and didn't have the benefit of the rule changes that gives them an unfair advantage over the defenses.

No Deacon Jones Head Slaps? No Butkus driving your head into the turf? No Bednarik closeline?


Top five in no order

Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Roger Staubach
Bart Starr
Joe Montana

BigDaddyBowman

<< <i>Kevin until you learn how to properly quote- I refuse to continue this banter. >>





LOL..I was thinking the same thing Paul

perkdog

<< <i>

<< <i>Kevin until you learn how to properly quote- I refuse to continue this banter. >>





LOL..I was thinking the same thing Paul >>






As far as Otto goes if you scroll back to my original " Top 5 " you will see he made my list

BigDaddyBowman

yes, and you have Steve Young in the same list...that's sacreligious to me!

BUT...I know you always give OTTO props..so I will forgive you!

joestalin

<< <i>Kevin until you learn how to properly quote- I refuse to continue this banter. >>



yeah, thats what I thought...nice out.

JS

grote15

Kevin until you learn how to properly quote- I refuse to continue this banter.



Typing a coherent thought is challenge enough for JS without expecting quotes, too..

nike24801

JS,

Your question was "who never played with a HOFer on his offense and still put up mind-blowing stats?".....implying Marino, I suppose. First, Dwight Stephenson is in the HOF, and played on Marino's offense. Second, didn't Brady win 3 SUPER BOWLS without a HOFer on his offense? Ty Law, Seymour, etc. are no HOF locks on defense either...it's possible Brady ends up being the ONLY player from those 3 championship teams to make the HOF (although the kicker probably gets in, I'm talking actual players here).

This is not to say that I think Brady is the best, top 5, top 10, whatever....what Brady accomplished in terms of rings simply, IMO, weakens your argument for Marino here. Isn't this game about the rings???

Jasen

Dave99B

Elway, hands down.

Dave

bigreddog

Roger Staubach is the Greatest QB I Ever saw play the Game.

Montana, Elway, Marino and even the more Modern Brady, Manning etc. are all fine QB's.


But they are NOT no Roger Staubach! In 9 years Roger took the Cowboys to 6 NFC Championship Games and 5 Super Bowls
NO other QB in history has led his team to the big game at such an ostounding rate.

While it's true the Steelers WON more SBs than the Cowboys in that era, they did it with a superior TEAM and a mediocre QB. The Cowboys did it with a mediocre team led by a superior QB. Without Bradshaw, the Steelers still win 4 SBs. Without Staubach, the Cowboys don't make it to more than 1. Check out the number of hall of famers from those Cowboys and Steelers teams if you don't believe me.



When you go through the list all-time NFL passer ratings, the top 15 are all from the modern era where the rule changes favor passing much more.

#16 is Staubach. The highest from his era. Unitas is 48th, BTW.



Remember, when Staubach retired, he had played 9 seasons, took his team to 9 playoffs and 5 super bowls. Additionally he had the highest passer rating in history at the time of his retirement. No quarterback had ever come close to the consistent achievements of Roger on the day he retired.

Montana, Young, Marino, Elway, Favre and ALL the other Modern Day QB's are a product of a system, Staubach WAS the system. Everything flowed through him. That wasn't the norm in their time. The rules didn't favor a QB then like they do now.



Montana NOPE Favre NOPE Elway NOPE Marino NOPE Brady NOPE ANY QB playing today? the answer is NO. They do not call the game or the plays, They would fail miserably. In Staubach's day, HE called the offensive plays. All of them.




Roger's shortend carrer due to his honoring his Military commitments stands as one of the most successful 10 year spans of ANY QB in the history of the Game. SB MVP , 4 NFL passing Titles. Staubach Lifted the Cowboys organization to the status of the most popular and winningest Franchise in all of sports.



Maybe he didn’t play as long as other great quarterbacks. Maybe other great quarterbacks won a few more championships. But Staubach did something no other great QB can match. Check out his 5-1 road playoff record!

QB Home Road
Starr 4-0 2-1
Brady 8-0 3-2
Bradshaw 8-2 2-3
Montana 10-2 2-5
Aikman 7-1 1-4
Staubach 5-3 5-1
Unitas 3-0 1-2
Elway 9-2 3-3
Griese 3-1 2-3
Young 7-3 0-3
Favre 8-3 3-6
Tarkenton 5-1 1-1
Stabler 5-1 1-5
Kelly 8-1 1-3
Manning 4-3 2-4
Marino 7-3 1-6
Fouts 1-2 2-2
Anderson 2-1 0-2

Only three of the 19 men on this list even have winning road playoff records, and Starr and Brady are “only” 2-1, 3-2 (and who knows if Brady finishes his career over .500). Staubach blows away everybody. Five and One! Incredible. Montana didn’t come close to Staubach. Neither did his Super Bowl nemesis Terry Bradshaw. Steve Young never won a playoff game on the road. No, Staubach’s the NFL’s greatest postseason road warrior. Two of those games were the very biggest road wins you could have: conference championship games.



Roger could do it ALL like no other I have seen. He could beat you passing, or Running. He could out smart you or just out hustle you.
He was tough as nails and the GREATEST FIELD GENERAL I have Ever Seen.

BigRedMachine

<< <i>
This is not to say that I think Brady is the best, top 5, top 10, whatever....what Brady accomplished in terms of rings simply, IMO, weakens your argument for Marino here. Isn't this game about the rings??? >>




Getting rings is easier when you have illegal video tape of the teams you're going to play and your coach cheats.

fiveniner

Johnny U

Hoopster

Super Bowls measure how good your team was, not how good your QB was. It is that simple. Sure, he is the most important single position on the team, but the most important unit on the team are the lineman. Nothing good happens unless they are good.

There still has not been a QB who has won a super bowl without having a top ten defense in points allowed. If people use Super Bowls as the true benchmark of a QB, giving it such high esteem as if he is the ultimate factor, then don't you think there would be at least one QB who has won a Super Bowl with a defense that is in the bottom half of the league? Since that has not occured, people have to stop putting the inordinate amount of credit on the shoulders of the QB for a Super Bowl win.

Brady may not have had the best offense, but he had one heckuva a defense, his kicker hit the key field goals(where other QB's had kickers who failed)...a horrible call by the refere's gave Brady a gift to go to his first Super Bowl, and his other Bowls weren't exactly wins against world beater teams...and they just eeked them out. Basically, a lot of luck, chance, and circumstance played the part in his, and others too.


I second Roger Staubach, and not as a favorite, but as a guy who is second to NOBODY on the lists provided.

In baseball, Ted Williams often gets credit for his military service. Staubach missed a lot of years as well. If you look it up, Staubach was the best QB in passer rating FOUR TIMES. He didn't start playing till age 27, and wasn't full time till age 29!!!

Passer rating isn't perfect, but it is something. I also don't believe it includes a QB's running contributions. If you add Staubach's ability to run, in addition to his league best passing, whoa do you have something there! Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, please step aside.

THe difference between Brady having three rings and Staubach only one pretty much boils down to the fact that Staubach had to play one of the best teams in the history of the NFL in two of his Super Bowls, which of course they lost.

Again, remember that Staubach really didn't start playing until age 29! Not because he wasn't good enough, but because of his commitment.

BigredDog...didn't mean to interfere with your thunder. Nice post!

bman90278

I would also like to give a shout for Roger Staubach. Watched lots of his games as a kid and he is certainly one of the greatest! Not sure if he's top 10, but he's right there.

Fairlaneman

No mention of George Blanda. This guy played forever and could beat you with more than his arm.

Montana is my favorite along with Fouts, because he was a Duck, certainly Blanda should get some ink also.

Ken

IchiroDeported

Props for Roger Staubach.

sayheykid54

Joe Montana.

joestalin

Did someone just compare Dwight Stephenson to Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith and Terrell Davis?

ahh ok

JS