PCGS raising a few prices for 2009

DennisH

Just received the dealer announcement in the mail. As of January 1 grading fees are staying the same, except:
-- Mint Errors will $50
-- Variety attribution will be $24
-- First Strike designation will be $14
-- Handling fee per order will be $8

I am seriously disappointed with the attribution fee going up. The cost of doing even a modest Morgan VAM Registry set is getting painful.

Manorcourtman

Wow, they are pricing themselves out of the mint error market.

Halfhunter06

that good old handling fee lol.

19Lyds

<< <i>Just received the dealer announcement in the mail. As of January 1 grading fees are staying the same, except:
-- Mint Errors will $50
-- Variety attribution will be $24
-- First Strike designation will be $14
-- Handling fee per order will be $8

I am seriously disappointed with the attribution fee going up. The cost of doing even a modest Morgan VAM Registry set is getting painful. >>



Mint errors FIFTY BUCKS?!?! This will certainly limit my mint error submissions.

Variety Attributions TWENTY-FOUR BUCKS ?!?! This too will limit my variety attributions next year and I'm sure I am not alone.

A buck or two would be ok but these are 20% to 25% increases!!

Barndog

gotta pay the bills for all that extra plastic (genuine slabs) I guess.

PCcoins

I think that's ridiculous. I think the fees now are high, at least compared to NGC? But $24 extra for attribution is just stupid IMO, unless you have a top pop coin.

Peaceman

I've decided to send in Peace vams to PCGS still.... but will not opt for the attribution and just have them graded and in PCGS plastic unattributed. My biggest submission this year was just 5 coins... but I think I had about 30 submissions...

For 2009, I'm going to send in vams only when I have 20 togehter now... plus they are really tight right now, so waiting wont be so bad...

MrEureka

Variety Attributions TWENTY-FOUR BUCKS ?

Why not just attribute them yourself?

Barndog

<< <i> Variety Attributions TWENTY-FOUR BUCKS ?

Why not just attribute them yourself? >>



hmmm, I'll attribute capped bust half dimes for $15 a piece! That's the ticket...

CertifiedGoldCoins

If you want to keep profits up to satisfy stockholders, and volume is down, you gotta raise the cost per item in order to generate the dollars. Business is business. We may get all warm and fuzzy about what they do "for" us as collectors, but they will only exist if their fees covder their expenses. JMHO.

tmcsr69

Last year the mint error service doubled as you could send them on economy service. So what costs $14 two years ago is now $50. Steep inflation. I'm getting the feeling PCGS would rather not have this end of the business.

WaterSport

The long turnaround time alone does not justify any increases. Fortunately I just sent in my LAST mint error two weeks ago and I am about to hit 90% completion on my variety sets before this increse kicks in.

WS

coinnuttius

So.. the NGC registry accepts PCGS coins, no?

Tootawl

<< <i>So.. the NGC registry accepts PCGS coins, no? >>


Yes they do. Looks like they will be getting more Error submissions.

MrEureka

One of the best ways to scale down in tough times is to raise prices. I'm glad to see PCGS is getting it right.

But will NGC follow?

IchiroDeported

$8 handling fee? who are they ? Ticketmaster? LOL

MrEureka

$8 handling fee? who are they ? Ticketmaster?

Ticketmaster probably nets $7 out of every $8 handling fee. I wonder if PCGS nets anything after allocated expenses.

TAClough

<< <i>$8 handling fee? who are they ? Ticketmaster? LOL >>



No - the $8 is for an application fee The handling fee is built into their postage rates

keets

i guess now the hobby opinion of NGC will go up since apparently many will decide to use that service to save a few dollars.

jessewvu

Do they charge the mint error fee for crossovers? For example, if I had a coin to cross over, would they charge me the crossover fee AND the mint error fee?

Walmann

20% off collectors club membership and short time later raise the fees, hmmm............

Type2

I think I'll just send my coins to China the fees will cover the shipping there and back and they have the same holders. I think I can pick the Grade to.

claychaser

Increasing the order fee to $8 is a-ok with me, as there is no minimum quantity for economy or regular submissions. If you send in 10 coins, its only an increase of 30 cents a coin.

For the First Strike going from $12 to $14, that's chunk change when you hit the magical "70". For a gold coin, it's going from $42 to $44 a shot, less than 5%. For a silver eagle, its $22 (Modern service) to $24 a shot,a 9% increase. Of course, if you hit a First Strike 70 on a green monster box eagle.........

WTCG

My problem is with the handling fee. There should not be an additonal surcharge for submission orders in the first place and raising the fee by an additional 60% is beyond absurd in my opinion.

claychaser

<< <i>My problem is with the handling fee. There should not be an additonal surcharge for submission orders in the first place and raising the fee by an additional 60% is beyond absurd in my opinion. >>



I respectfully do not concur. PCGS dropped the 5 and 10 coin minimums. It does cost money to handle an order, and I think of it as a quantity discount - you get a better amortized per coin rate on a 20 coin economy submit vs. a 1 or 2 coin submit. On 10 coins, its only 80 cents a coin.

zeebob

BlindedByEgo

<< <i> >>



No more need be said.

clackamas

<< <i>One of the best ways to scale down in tough times is to raise prices. I'm glad to see PCGS is getting it right.

But will NGC follow? >>



You are joking right? In all my years I have never heard that. Maybe GM, Ford and all the big retail chains can take a lesson from CU? The best way to decrease demand is to increase price. So in tough times decrease demand for your product? Not usually the best move. The optimal profit curve is to get the most units out at the highest price. To find this you increase price, demand decreases and you find the point where profit is maximum. If I read the PCGS financials correctly, increasing prices right now, is, well stupid, demand at current prices has already fallen, so an increase will only decrease demand further. The COGS now are probably as low as they have been in 5 years. Plastic is cheap, rent is cheap, people are cheap (not wanting to get laid off). I will say the the stock of CU has never been attractive, run like a private company, all the profits are sucked off, but this latest move, where are the put options?

PCGS needs to find where the marginal profit for each unit (coin graded) is near zero and capture some market share back. They have lost so much market share since HRH stopped being involved day to day its not funny. Personally the new management should be fired, they have made all the wrong moves. They killed a good portion of their business and NGC capitalized in a big way.

Steve27

<< <i>$8 handling fee? who are they ? Ticketmaster?

Ticketmaster probably nets $7 out of every $8 handling fee. I wonder if PCGS nets anything after allocated expenses. >>




PCGS nets $8 out of $8 on this one, since they claim the fee is just there to discourage small submissions.

19Lyds

<< <i>Do they charge the mint error fee for crossovers? For example, if I had a coin to cross over, would they charge me the crossover fee AND the mint error fee? >>



Yes Jesse!

19Lyds

<< <i>20% off collectors club membership and short time later raise the fees, hmmm............ >>



They have not raised fee's in general, just on the special label gradings.

Not to light any fires here but this was a PCGS Authorized Dealer notification to their registered PCGS Dealers. I wonder if these prices will be different for us non-Authorized Dealers.

Whatever, all my current mint errors will be submitted before the end of the year as it represents a significant savings. After that, only on a very selective basis.

OPA

<< <i>If you want to keep profits up to satisfy stockholders, and volume is down, you gotta raise the cost per item in order to generate the dollars. Business is business. We may get all warm and fuzzy about what they do "for" us as collectors, but they will only exist if their fees covder their expenses. JMHO. >>



Agree ... as a stockholder in CLCT, I'm, at this time, more interested in the bottom line and their bottom line has been terrible.

MORGANHUNTER2

<< <i>Just received the dealer announcement in the mail. As of January 1 grading fees are staying the same, except:
-- Mint Errors will $50
-- Variety attribution will be $24
-- First Strike designation will be $14
-- Handling fee per order will be $8

I am seriously disappointed with the attribution fee going up. The cost of doing even a modest Morgan VAM Registry set is getting painful. >>




Does the saying 'A glutton for punishment" ring any bells. Glad I don't submit errors or varieties.

What is this handling fee per order garbage? Is this another way of getting money out of the collector? I'm pretty sure that a dealer will pass this on to the poor soul that is not a member of the "club".

Awful timing PCGS- economy is not like it was 3 or 4 years ago.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>If you want to keep profits up to satisfy stockholders, and volume is down, you gotta raise the cost per item in order to generate the dollars. Business is business. We may get all warm and fuzzy about what they do "for" us as collectors, but they will only exist if their fees covder their expenses. JMHO. >>



Agree ... as a stockholder in CLCT, I'm, at this time, more interested in the bottom line and their bottom line has been terrible. >>



Do you really think big increases in fees will help their bottom line when collectors and dealers can take their business elsewhere?

options26

<< <i>

<< <i>One of the best ways to scale down in tough times is to raise prices. I'm glad to see PCGS is getting it right.

But will NGC follow? >>



You are joking right? In all my years I have never heard that. Maybe GM, Ford and all the big retail chains can take a lesson from CU? The best way to decrease demand is to increase price. So in tough times decrease demand for your product? Not usually the best move. The optimal profit curve is to get the most units out at the highest price. To find this you increase price, demand decreases and you find the point where profit is maximum. If I read the PCGS financials correctly, increasing prices right now, is, well stupid, demand at current prices has already fallen, so an increase will only decrease demand further. The COGS now are probably as low as they have been in 5 years. Plastic is cheap, rent is cheap, people are cheap (not wanting to get laid off). I will say the the stock of CU has never been attractive, run like a private company, all the profits are sucked off, but this latest move, where are the put options? >>



Yes, I agree, not a smart move. But "What If" this is a drive to increase end of year numbers without running sales or promotions? They are going to get a ton of submissions before the quarter closes, boosting the financials quite a bit for the stock holders. ALthough the numbers will look good from the outside, they still need a long term plan in place to continue it. Then I think we may see a "change of heart" just after the first of the year. Could be a smart move, but it could also backfire.

Edited to add: I would be buying call options for Mid year delivery as close to the money as I could. Then sell right after the numbers were released. I just may do that......Hmmm

lope208

a few thoughts:

1) I think the error coin rate is ridiculous. I don't buy and sell errors,
but I do have a few that I wanted to get graded. Guess I'll have
to send them in before the end of the year now.

2) The Ticketmaster comparison--while I know it's in good fun--is not
a good one. TM charges so many extra charges. I think last time
I purchased tickets there was an order processing fee, a handling
fee per ticket, an electronic delivery fee (to print my own damn tickets!), etc.
Until PCGS starts charging an $8 handling fee per coin, it's still
a better deal than TM IMO.

3) I didn't realize that the NGC Registry accepted PCGS coins. That's
a smart move by a direct competitor and one that must help the NGC
bottom line. After all, buy the coin, not the holder. It's good to know
if I spend more time looking at NGC coins, they can still improve my sets.

4) As much as we all hate them, price increases are a fact of life, esp.
in tough times. While it doesn't make a lot of sense from the outside,
I'm sure CU's analysts have figured out how many fewer submissions
they'll receive now, and how much raising the prices will even things out.
Is it good? In the long run, doubtful. But today, probably.

Edited spelling!

mozin

Variety "attribution" at $24 is too high. Perhaps they should consider also adding variety "verification" for $10. There is a big staff time difference between these two services. ANACS charges $10 for attribution, and $5 for verification.

TAClough

streeter

As much as I agree with some re: 'How dare PCGS' raise prices in this economy.......

FYI.......there are a lot of alternatives for plastic. Many companies will be glad to handle your stuff for a lot less.

I think......uhoh.....that by raising fees......better quality coins will come in. This will benefit PCGS slabs in the long term.

AND.....anyone who thinks that doing business is getting cheaper......is not writing checks these days.

keets

ANACS charges $10 for attribution, and $5 for verification.

with the state of things at ANACS being what they are, that company could probably PAY collectors that money and not get any takers!!!

JRocco

It is what it is guys.
Wanna play you gotta pay.

PerryHall

<< <i>It is what it is guys.
Wanna play you gotta pay. >>


.......or go to the competition.

19Lyds

<< <i>Variety "attribution" at $24 is too high. Perhaps they should consider also adding variety "verification" for $10. There is a big staff time difference between these two services. ANACS charges $10 for attribution, and $5 for verification. >>



I think this is an excellent idea since all the varities I've sent in, I've already "attributed" otherwise I would not have paid the $20!

$24.00 where I've done all the footwork is a bit too extreme!

Not only that, but I've submitted ANACS Attributed varieties which still required the $20 "attribution" fee.

Perhaps if they are going to get into this game then they should at least develop a pricing structure to accomodate it.

2manycoins2fewfunds

I'll say this at the risk of getting poofed...................

For a $50 charge for errors and $24 for varity attribution beyond regular grading fees I could see a few experts getting together and starting a CAC like sticker service for errors and varities.

$50 plus regular grading fees to verify a smooth edge Washington/Adam seems way over the top!

claychaser

<< <i>I'll say this at the risk of getting poofed...................

For a $50 charge for errors and $24 for varity attribution beyond regular grading fees I could see a few experts getting together and starting a CAC like sticker service for errors and varities.

$50 plus regular grading fees to verify a smooth edge Washington/Adam seems way over the top! >>



Aren't the Prez Buck smoothies considered a Regular Modern Coin - since they have their own coin numbers on the lookup?