"Governments Can't Handle Global Run On Gold Coins"
COINB0Y
Posts: 4,505
NY POST
Posted: 4:37 am
November 18, 2008
THERE'S a worldwide run on gold coins.
Even as the price of the precious metal itself comes under pressure along with commodities like oil and copper, people around the world are demanding so many of the valuable coins that government mints are having difficulty filling orders.
A spokesperson for the US Mint tells me that gold coins in this country, for the past month, "are being allocated because of an increased demand."
And the price that the government charges coin dealers has recently been increased by as much as 10 percent for a 10-ounce coin.
Robert Mish, a coin dealer in Menlo Park, Calif., says customers who want to purchase 200 gold coins often have to wait up to two weeks. Six months ago, he said, a purchase that size could have been filled immediately.
Someone who recently tried to purchase 100 one-ounce American Eagle gold coins in the New York City-area was turned away, even though he'd uneventfully made purchases before through the same dealer.
And even when gold coins are available, dealers report that customers are paying a bigger premium than they would have just a few months ago.
Previously, American Eagle coins were going for 5 percent over the market price of gold on the Commodity Exchange (Comex). Now the premium can be anywhere from 10 percent to 15 percent, even though the US Mint raised its price to dealers by just 3 percent for an ounce coin.
In one sense, the attraction for gold coins isn't surprising. Since ancient times, gold has been considered the safest investment to hold in times of uncertainty.
With fears of future inflation rising and concern about the value of paper currency and government-debt increasing with each new recovery plan announced in Washington and in foreign capitals, the desire to hold gold grows.
That part makes perfect sense. But there's another more puzzling aspect to the recent gold rush.
Even as the demand for gold coins such as the Canadian Maple Leaf or the Krugerrand of South Africa has grown, the market price of the precious metal itself is off its highs.
In early October, the price of an ounce of gold on the spot market was about $930 an ounce. With the commodities bubble bursting in recent months, gold declined into the upper $600 range. Spot gold closed yesterday at $739.90, down $2.60.
Bill Murphy, chairman of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, says the price of spot gold is even more perplexing given the demand for coins and the fact that central banks in Europe have stopped selling gold into the open market.
"Gold should be moving up," Murphy says. "How could there be such a dichotomy between the historic high premium for coins all over the world and the low Comex price?"
His answer? "Today the public is buying gold like crazy, but the US government and the banks that hold bullion are intentionally keeping the price down."
Ah, but that column will have to wait for another day.
Finally, someone in Washington is complaining about the coziness between the government and Goldman Sachs - which, incidentally, has been going on unfettered for the greater part of two decades.
If you've been reading this column for any length of time, you already know I have been griping loudly about the obvious inappropriateness of this Washington/Wall Street liaison and have spent considerable energy outlining my suspicions.
Now, Iowa Sen. Charles Grassley, the senior Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, is asking the inspector general of the US Treasury to investigate whether some government officials who formerly worked at Goldman let their "relationships" cloud their judgment during the merger of Wells Fargo and Wachovia.
In case you aren't up on the Goldman-to-govern ment express train, cur rent Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson is a for mer Goldman chairman, as was Robert Rubin who headed the department during Bill Clinton's presidency.
And more Goldman execs are being mentioned for the Treasury job in President-elect Barack Obama's administration.
Specifically, Grassley is concerned about a tax code change that paved the way for the acquisition of Wachovia by Wells Fargo. An ex-Goldman executive was leading Wachovia at the time of that deal.
Here's the answer he'll get from Treasury and Paulson: these are dangerous times and anything that was done was for the good of the country. In other words, they'll drag out the old national security argument.
Grassley will become a minnow in the next Democrat-controlled Congress. But the Democrats need to take up the baton, turn it into a club and see just what Paulson has been up to.
As I've written before, Paulson has admitted that part of his job was to keep in touch with "market participants." Calling his friends on Wall Street - and especially at Goldman - would be an odd extension of the role of Treasury secretary and I certainly would like to know what he felt compelled to tell these folks.
Like - did Paulson leak to Wall Street last August the fact that the Federal Reserve was about to begin interest-rate cuts?
All Grassley or the Democrats need to do is subpoena Paulson's phone records and meeting minutes of his secretive President's Working Group on Financial Markets. But I don't think anyone in Washington has the nerve.
john.crudele@nypost.com
LINKY
Posted: 4:37 am
November 18, 2008
THERE'S a worldwide run on gold coins.
Even as the price of the precious metal itself comes under pressure along with commodities like oil and copper, people around the world are demanding so many of the valuable coins that government mints are having difficulty filling orders.
A spokesperson for the US Mint tells me that gold coins in this country, for the past month, "are being allocated because of an increased demand."
And the price that the government charges coin dealers has recently been increased by as much as 10 percent for a 10-ounce coin.
Robert Mish, a coin dealer in Menlo Park, Calif., says customers who want to purchase 200 gold coins often have to wait up to two weeks. Six months ago, he said, a purchase that size could have been filled immediately.
Someone who recently tried to purchase 100 one-ounce American Eagle gold coins in the New York City-area was turned away, even though he'd uneventfully made purchases before through the same dealer.
And even when gold coins are available, dealers report that customers are paying a bigger premium than they would have just a few months ago.
Previously, American Eagle coins were going for 5 percent over the market price of gold on the Commodity Exchange (Comex). Now the premium can be anywhere from 10 percent to 15 percent, even though the US Mint raised its price to dealers by just 3 percent for an ounce coin.
In one sense, the attraction for gold coins isn't surprising. Since ancient times, gold has been considered the safest investment to hold in times of uncertainty.
With fears of future inflation rising and concern about the value of paper currency and government-debt increasing with each new recovery plan announced in Washington and in foreign capitals, the desire to hold gold grows.
That part makes perfect sense. But there's another more puzzling aspect to the recent gold rush.
Even as the demand for gold coins such as the Canadian Maple Leaf or the Krugerrand of South Africa has grown, the market price of the precious metal itself is off its highs.
In early October, the price of an ounce of gold on the spot market was about $930 an ounce. With the commodities bubble bursting in recent months, gold declined into the upper $600 range. Spot gold closed yesterday at $739.90, down $2.60.
Bill Murphy, chairman of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, says the price of spot gold is even more perplexing given the demand for coins and the fact that central banks in Europe have stopped selling gold into the open market.
"Gold should be moving up," Murphy says. "How could there be such a dichotomy between the historic high premium for coins all over the world and the low Comex price?"
His answer? "Today the public is buying gold like crazy, but the US government and the banks that hold bullion are intentionally keeping the price down."
Ah, but that column will have to wait for another day.
Finally, someone in Washington is complaining about the coziness between the government and Goldman Sachs - which, incidentally, has been going on unfettered for the greater part of two decades.
If you've been reading this column for any length of time, you already know I have been griping loudly about the obvious inappropriateness of this Washington/Wall Street liaison and have spent considerable energy outlining my suspicions.
Now, Iowa Sen. Charles Grassley, the senior Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, is asking the inspector general of the US Treasury to investigate whether some government officials who formerly worked at Goldman let their "relationships" cloud their judgment during the merger of Wells Fargo and Wachovia.
In case you aren't up on the Goldman-to-govern ment express train, cur rent Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson is a for mer Goldman chairman, as was Robert Rubin who headed the department during Bill Clinton's presidency.
And more Goldman execs are being mentioned for the Treasury job in President-elect Barack Obama's administration.
Specifically, Grassley is concerned about a tax code change that paved the way for the acquisition of Wachovia by Wells Fargo. An ex-Goldman executive was leading Wachovia at the time of that deal.
Here's the answer he'll get from Treasury and Paulson: these are dangerous times and anything that was done was for the good of the country. In other words, they'll drag out the old national security argument.
Grassley will become a minnow in the next Democrat-controlled Congress. But the Democrats need to take up the baton, turn it into a club and see just what Paulson has been up to.
As I've written before, Paulson has admitted that part of his job was to keep in touch with "market participants." Calling his friends on Wall Street - and especially at Goldman - would be an odd extension of the role of Treasury secretary and I certainly would like to know what he felt compelled to tell these folks.
Like - did Paulson leak to Wall Street last August the fact that the Federal Reserve was about to begin interest-rate cuts?
All Grassley or the Democrats need to do is subpoena Paulson's phone records and meeting minutes of his secretive President's Working Group on Financial Markets. But I don't think anyone in Washington has the nerve.
john.crudele@nypost.com
LINKY
0
Comments
<< <i> Bill Murphy, chairman of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, says the price of spot gold is even more perplexing given the demand for coins and the fact that central banks in Europe have stopped selling gold into the open market.
"Gold should be moving up," Murphy says. "How could there be such a dichotomy between the historic high premium for coins all over the world and the low Comex price?"
His answer? "Today the public is buying gold like crazy, but the US government and the banks that hold bullion are intentionally keeping the price down."
Ah, but that column will have to wait for another day.
>>
"US government and the banks that hold bullion are intentionally keeping the price down" Exactly what many on the boards have been telling us!
Great read, thanks for sharing it.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Compare that with the demand for gold in the jewelry industry and in other industrial sectors.
If demand for coin goes up and demand for jewelry and other fabricated products goes down what is the effect on the net demand for gold?
Also bear in mind that mints plan on striking coins in any year based upon the number of coins they sold the previous year. So if demand goes up more than they expected, they will not strike enough new coins and will not have enough planchets on hand to increase immediate production.
CG
them an ounce of credence shows a lack of critical thinking skills.
if it is posted on the internet enough times eventually the dull witted will start
to believe it, a la gold bug propaganda.
bits of fact mixed with outright bull crap results in a less then convincing argument.
<< <i>"Gold should be moving up," Murphy says. "How could there be such a dichotomy between the historic high premium for coins all over the world and the low Comex price?"
His answer? "Today the public is buying gold like crazy, but the US government and the banks that hold bullion are intentionally keeping the price down." >>
If you cannot explain it... it must be manipulation. Why a reporter would even add such conspiracy nonsense
to an article shows the lack of reporting and investigating skills.
"American Eagle Bullion Coins: American Eagle bullion coins are typically purchased by investors seeking a simple, tangible means to own and invest in precious metals. These coins are made in gold (22K), silver, and platinum. American Eagle silver bullion sales decreased to 7.8 million fine troy ounces (FTOs) and revenue decreased to $110.2million in FY 2007, compared with 11.2 million FTOs sold and $130.5 million in revenue in FY 2006. American Eagle gold bullion sales decreased to 164 thousand FTOs in FY2007, and revenue decreased to $110.3 million, compared with 395 thousand FTOs and $222.9 million in revenue in FY 2006. American Eagle platinum bullion sales increased to 14.6 thousand ounces, while revenue increased to $18.1million in FY 2007, compared to 14.5 thousand ounces, and$15.5 million in revenue in FY 2006. In FY 2007, total American Eagle bullion revenues decreased to $238.6 million compared with $368.9 million in FY 2006."
"In FY 2007, the American Buffalo Gold Bullion Coin sales decreased to 171thousand ounces compared to 266.5 thousand ounces in FY2006. The American Buffalo Gold Bullion net program revenue for FY 2007 was $1.7 million compared to $3.0 million in net program revenue in FY 2006."
CG
Lewis
Menlo Park....up the Peninsula a wee bit from my office.....near some new and old money types....
these stories are made credible by gathering information that "fits" the slant of the writer...i think that is what fc is referring to.
<< <i>It looks like fc has ALOT to learn about how the financial world works in 2008.
Lewis >>
if silver and gold are manipulated so often why did the have a run
up over the last years?
now in a financial crisis when people/funds/etc are seeking cash, which has
repeatedly been said to be king around here.. you have a hard time
understanding why they went down? people/funds/etc sold their liquid assets
to cover other things.
It appears typing out one sentence to make me look bad is hard
work that makes a logical argument just dissolve to nothingness.
Please try harder... unless of course your only answer is conspiracy...
in which case feel free to rant and rave on it. Tis a public forum after all.
<< <i>if silver and gold are manipulated so often why did the have a run up over the last years? >>
A related question woudl be "if silver and gold are manipulated so often why should anyone invest in it?"
CG
Tell me what you really think!
I offer no opinion, I just post the Information, adjust Ebay listings accordingly
<< <i>more rubbish posted to the PM forum. these articles are so pathetic to give
Tell me what you really think!
I offer no opinion, I just post the Information, adjust Ebay listings accordingly >>
I understand. I just find that these types of articles thrive on the
internet and it is a shame. Blog posts taken as near fact and very
little resources going to actually checking the facts like an old fashioned
reporter used to do. They go from board to blog to board and spread
like wildfire. I feel the need to say what I think of them. It is way too
easy to spread sensationalist trash via the internet and for some odd
reason people believe it. Countless times internet articles have been
proven wrong over time but the damage was done and people never
read the follow ups because they are not as sexy and exciting.
<< <i>
<< <i>if silver and gold are manipulated so often why did the have a run up over the last years? >>
A related question woudl be "if silver and gold are manipulated so often why should anyone invest in it?"
CG >>
And as I have stated many times, who cares if it is manipulated? Every asset class has its day in the sun, but none should ever be held forever. Enjoy the respective runs while they last then get the ---- out. When something doesnt do as you expect, you must question if your expectations are wrong. Have you over/under estimated something? Have you left something out? Have you factored in too much info? Have circumstances changed? In a fluid market, such as we live in, you must also be fluid with your thoughts and this also includes opinions.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>if silver and gold are manipulated so often why did the have a run up over the last years? >>
A related question woudl be "if silver and gold are manipulated so often why should anyone invest in it?"
CG >>
And as I have stated many times, who cares if it is manipulated? Every asset class has its day in the sun, but none should ever be held forever. Enjoy the respective runs while they last then get the ---- out. When something doesnt do as you expect, you must question if your expectations are wrong. Have you over/under estimated something? Have you left something out? Have you factored in too much info? Have circumstances changed? In a fluid market, such as we live in, you must also be fluid with your thoughts and this also includes opinions. >>
i was using it as an debate point. About it. Of course what you state
above makes sense. Being flexible and adjusting your course when
new information arises is what usually makes someone successful.
"if it was manipulated" why should you invest in it?
"if it can't be proven in a court of law....it's not manipulation"
if silver and gold are manipulated so often why did the have a run
up over the last years?
Exactly.......we'd have already hit the $1200-$1500 range in 2007 if not for the efforts of the PPT to keep the dollar drop (and the gold rise well-managed). Big changes in anything are not allowed by the PPT. They SHALL have an orderly dollar drop and gold increase.
Gold ran up due to monetary excesses and it being undervalued for decades. Pretty simple concept, even for a 5th grader. And yes Virginia, fundamentals do eventually play themselves out, regardless of government wishes to the contrary.
roadrunner
proven wrong over time but the damage was done and people never
read the follow ups because they are not as sexy and exciting
Actually it was in the physical paper too.
Steve
<< <i>I think it's time for an fc manipulation thread so we can cease having to hear the same old lines:
"if it was manipulated" why should you invest in it?
"if it can't be proven in a court of law....it's not manipulation"
if silver and gold are manipulated so often why did the have a run
up over the last years?
Exactly.......we'd have already hit the $1200-$1500 range in 2007 if not for the efforts of the PPT to keep the dollar drop (and the gold rise well-managed). Big changes in anything are not allowed by the PPT. They SHALL have an orderly dollar drop and gold increase.
Gold ran up due to monetary excesses and it being undervalued for decades. Pretty simple concept, even for a 5th grader. And yes Virginia, fundamentals do eventually play themselves out, regardless of government wishes to the contrary.
roadrunner >>
It does get weary doesn't it?
I'll say it again, pearls before swine.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
proven wrong over time but the damage was done and people never
read the follow ups because they are not as sexy and exciting.
And to think it was the National Enquirer that exposed the Lewinsky story
which later caused a national debate on the meaning of the word "is".
The internet is overtaking the printed form of news, actually it already has.
Newspapers and the MSM have sold out their credibility, it's gone forever.
Gems of truth can be found in all areas and more are found on the net then the MSM anymore.
We just have far more sources of information than we used to, with that requires discrimination,
but it can't be done simply based on the source anymore.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Deadhorse, the Enquirer didnt expose the Lewinksy story. It was Matt Drudge. >>
All due respect;
Do some more research. He got it from them.
He readily admits it.
He broke hints, they broke the stories and interviews once Matt had added the interest.
The Enquirer by itself back then simply didn't have the credibility, they greased the skids through Drudge.
Matt is not an investigative reporter himself, he is a collector of info from other sources, some that often wish to remain in the background.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>Deadhorse, the Enquirer didnt expose the Lewinksy story. It was Matt Drudge. >>
All due respect;
Do some more research. He got it from them.
He readily admits it.
He broke hints, they broke the stories and interviews once Matt had added the interest.
The Enquirer by itself back then simply didn't have the credibility, they greased the skids through Drudge.
Matt is not an investigative reporter himself, he is a collector of info from other sources, some that often wish to remain in the background. >>
Deadhorse, you are the one who needs to do research, period. No offense but I never post unless I know its fact.. But Matt Drudge got the story through several sources after NEWSWEEK was too scared to run it....Newsweek was petrified of the implications and they decided not to break the biggest scandal in recent hisory....Lucianne Goldberg of Lucianne.com informed Drudge of Newsweeks' hesitation. He posted everything he was given and dug up and broke it on his website. The Enquirer had nothing to do with it. You can google any of this info and find it easily. THE N/E did get the Edwards scandal though.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Deadhorse, the Enquirer didnt expose the Lewinksy story. It was Matt Drudge. >>
All due respect;
Do some more research. He got it from them.
He readily admits it.
He broke hints, they broke the stories and interviews once Matt had added the interest.
The Enquirer by itself back then simply didn't have the credibility, they greased the skids through Drudge.
Matt is not an investigative reporter himself, he is a collector of info from other sources, some that often wish to remain in the background. >>
Deadhorse, you are the one who needs to do research, period. No offense but I never post unless I know its fact.. But Matt Drudge got the story through several sources after NEWSWEEK was too scared to run it....Newsweek was petrified of the implications and they decided not to break the biggest scandal in recent hisory....Lucianne Goldberg of Lucianne.com informed Drudge of Newsweeks' hesitation. He posted everything he was given and dug up and broke it on his website. The Enquirer had nothing to do with it. You can google any of this info and find it easily. THE N/E did get the Edwards scandal though. >>
I remember all that. I just remember it a bit differently. The N/E was involved from day one.
That's where Newsweek got it from. You know they'd never investigate Slick on their own.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
There are many reasons for lower metals prices including recession, the need for cash, a stronger dollar...
Are these forces not stronger than "manipulation?"
How many manipulators do you need to overcome the forces of the open market?
Again, how many manipulators do you need to overcome the forces of the open market?
By the way, there is nothing new about gold salesmen talking about manipulation. They always do. Either its manipulation driving prices up, or forcing prices down.
How do we know that gold salesmen are talking about manipulation? Because their lips are moving.
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
The one thing I would like to know is how General Motors after being in business for a really long time including the Great Depression is about to be bankrupt after ONE bad year? Where did all the retained earnings go? Are they that leveraged?
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/