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Bust half collectors, how significant is the Meyer pedigree?

RYKRYK Posts: 35,751 ✭✭✭✭✭
Bust half collectors, how significant is the Meyer pedigree? I have seen several of these in the marketplace and even ended up with one for my DBH set. How does it compare to other collections in quality, depth, panache, etc.

"There are no called strikes in coin collecting."--Henry David Thoreau RYK

Comments

  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    Charlton Meyer, or 'Swampy' to his friends, was the only one who ever completed a collection of Bust halves, including the crushed lettered edges, by Overton number. That alone makes his provenance worth something. It is my understanding that the quality of the coins was also superb. Pedigrees mean different things to different people, but to those who knew him, and especially to those who strive to complete a collection of Bust halves, the Meyer pedigree represents the highest goal achievable.
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    to me, personally, it is quite significant. Swampy is the only person ever to complete a capped bust set by Overton number. He also had quite an eye for quality. There are several coins from his collection I would give my eye teeth for. (I would also give cash; I simply don't have enough of it!)
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • QuarternutQuarternut Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Charlton Meyer, or 'Swampy' to his friends, was the only one who ever completed a collection of Bust halves, including the crushed lettered edges, by Overton number. That alone makes his provenance worth something. It is my understanding that the quality of the coins was also superb. Pedigrees mean different things to different people, but to those who knew him, and especially to those who strive to complete a collection of Bust halves, the Meyer pedigree represents the highest goal achievable. >>



    While Swampy did have the first and only complete collection of Capped Bust Half die marriages (1807 - 1836), this did not include the 3 crushed lettered edge (CLE) proof only marriages.

    In fact, he successfully petitioned the Bust Half Nut Club (BHNC) to not include these three coins as part of the "complete" series of 450 die marriages delineated by Overton. They are currently not considered as part of the census totals that each member submits bi-annually.

    Charlton's reasoning makes sense, as these CLE marriages were not struck for general circulation, but are believed to have been created during experimentation of the new "close" collar die implemented in 1836. A second valid point is that they are not listed in any of the Overton books produced on the Bust Halves including the latest incarnation of the fourth edition, so poorly redone by Don Parsley (Al Overton's Son-in-law).

    If memory serves correctly, Swampy did own at least one of the CLE's, but never considered them to be part of the series.

    Although the quality of the coins in the collection were not necessarliy the finest known, his accomplishment of completing the regular series of 450 die marriages has never been equaled and I would say that the Meyer pedigree is a very important one in the Bust Half community.

    QN

    Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!

  • drddmdrddm Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that the Meyer Pedigree is VERY significant, at least to CBH collectors. What he did was QUITE an accomplishment and he certainly did have an eye for quality.

    I happen to own 2 of his CBH's and BOTH are AMAZING as far as eye appeal goes......here is an 1832 O-106 Small Letters.

    Believe me when I say, the pictures don't do this coin justice!!!

    image
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭
    I do not have any Meyer pedigreed CBH's and that's regrettable in view of his accomplishment.

    drddm, your 1832 undoubtedly has serious pop that must jump right through the attractive layer of crust! Doesn't take too much imagination to see through the limitations of the image.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    No question the Meyer pedigree on the PCGS label will normally bring at least a small money premium. PCGS did a fine job grading many of Swampy's CBHs, in great contrast to what NGC did with the Reiver collection. I was very happy to win this from Sheridan's Fab 44 auction.



    image
    image
    image



    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • Some of the coins are superb and some are less than superb. Charlton was also the first to complete a collection of bust quarters and he also had a terrific collection of counterstamps, including a nearly complete collection of Houck's by date and overdate and a collection of bust half patterns, many of which are imaged in one of the pattern books. Mr. Eureka outbid him for Russ Logan's 1814 O.107 platinum piece.

    He bought a lot of wonderful coins later on in life, but many of the coins in this collection are not so great. Lots of them. He began collecting when quality wasn't a concern for Overton collectors. It was enough to have one of each. Another collector was recently able to reach 450 by picking off a few Meyer coins, and this collector also has a set of CLEs and a nearly complete set of preturbs, lacking perhaps a 1794 O.111, 1795 O.132 and 1806 O.129.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, and his brother oscar was somewhat of a hotdog collector himself!image
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,503 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yeah, and his brother oscar was somewhat of a hotdog collector himself!image >>


    Although that particular response was pretty bad... image

    I think this thread has been very interesting and informative.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,452 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Some of the coins are superb and some are less than superb. Charlton was also the first to complete a collection of bust quarters and he also had a terrific collection of counterstamps, including a nearly complete collection of Houck's by date and overdate and a collection of bust half patterns, many of which are imaged in one of the pattern books. Mr. Eureka outbid him for Russ Logan's 1814 O.107 platinum piece.

    He bought a lot of wonderful coins later on in life, but many of the coins in this collection are not so great. Lots of them. He began collecting when quality wasn't a concern for Overton collectors. It was enough to have one of each. Another collector was recently able to reach 450 by picking off a few Meyer coins, and this collector also has a set of CLEs and a nearly complete set of preturbs, lacking perhaps a 1794 O.111, 1795 O.132 and 1806 O.129. >>



    I was fortunate enough to get one of his bust quarters image
  • QuarternutQuarternut Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭
    I was fortunate enough to get one of his bust quarters image

    Me too!

    As this was a thread on the significance of the Meyer Bust Half Pedigree, I didn't think it prudent to comment on Swamp's Bust Quarters, although as far as I know he is the only person to have completed a die marriage set of the quarters from 1796 - 1838. There are only two such sets even possible due to the rarity of the 1837 B-6...

    Another collector was recently able to reach 450 by picking off a few Meyer coins, and this collector also has a set of CLEs and a nearly complete set of preturbs, lacking perhaps a 1794 O.111, 1795 O.132 and 1806 O.129.

    I was unaware of this fact. Gee, and I thought I was "in the loop"! image

    QN

    Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!

  • rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭✭
    Oops, i thought you were talking about Russ Meyer,,,,image
    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,751 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's my Meyer coin:

    image

    "There are no called strikes in coin collecting."--Henry David Thoreau RYK
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    OK RYK, now let us see the PCGS label. image
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,503 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What is the big deal about pedigrees, even great pedigrees. I hear there isn't much value added with great pedigrees.image >>


    There is no "big deal" about pedigrees. They are simply another attribute that a coin may have. Pedigrees are interesting to some...and may be worth a small premium to those collectors. Pedigrees give collectors another way to learn and appreciate the history of a coin - particularly an exceptionally rare one.

    Some people like crusty coins. Some like shiny white.
    Some people like error coins. Some don't.
    Some people appreciate rare die marriages. Some only collect by type.
    Some people like red copper. Some prefer red-brown or brown.

    Collect what you like...like what you collect. Don't worry about what other people collect, or why.


  • I WISH I had seen his quarter collection, but I didn't. I admit, some of his halves were out of the world spectacular, but a lot of his coins weren't, and more than some couldn't get graded. I owned a few Meyer coins a few years ago, before Sheridan's auction. I sold them to a dealer who didn't seem to care that they were Meyer pedigree (not written on the label as I bought them raw and had them holdered myself...) but who now appears to have changed his/her mind since it is all the craze recently.

    As a Bust Half Collector, his pedigree means something to me, and unfortunately for my bank account, I'll pay $$$$ for the really great ones, but not because of the name on the label.
  • His pedigree would be cool if it was for a coin that I had much difficulty in finding and the coin was particularly outstanding. Otherwise, I don't really care about pedigree, his or otherwise.
    You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • pcgs69pcgs69 Posts: 4,256 ✭✭✭✭
    Just found this coin under the couch cushion... what are the odds??

    image
    image


  • << <i>What is the big deal about pedigrees, even great pedigrees. I hear there isn't much value added with great pedigrees.image >>



    Pedigrees from certain people, particularly guys like Meyer and Reiver and Logan who all contributed greatly to their fields of study, can mean a lot to collectors that have followed in their footsteps. Someday, we may be talking about the importance of the Thompson or Crain pedigrees for their contributions to their fields...

    For other pedigrees, like Eliasburg, it's because of some accomplishment like having one of every issue of U.S. coins...



    It's like with plastic... it means a lot to some and it means absolutely nothing to others... collecting is an individual pursuit... there is nothing that forces you to do anything, except for your own desires...
    -George
    42/92
  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bumping an old post here. I think I have 1 or 2 bust quarters from the Charlton Meyer collection, but I’m not sure. Does anyone know if there was an auction catalogue or anything I could use to link the provenance?

    Also, post your Meyer collection coins if you have some!

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a few of Swampy's old coins, including this very cool crack monster ... a wonderful 11-112a



    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty I love the die cracks on that one.

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2024 9:54PM

    @scubafuel Thank you! So do I.

    On another note for the importance of Charlton "Swampy" Meyer, and his pedigree. He was one of the early members of the Bust Half Nut Club (BHNC), and while I never met him, I have heard he was quite the character.

    My understanding is only three BHNC members have ever reached all 450 Die Marriages (this does not include CLE Proofs). I do not think any non-member has ever achieved this feat, and for the Club members, Swampy was the first.

    David Kahn once stated ... Charlton "Swampy" Meyer was one of the most important Capped Bust Half Dollar collectors ever, and I would argue he was the most important of his generation. He was the first ever to complete the modern 450 die variety collection, and was interested both in grade and quality.

    Consider this ... all 450 different Die marriages, with a average reported grade of about AU55.

    If anyone knows CBH's, that is a VERY monumental achievement. Several members are standing at the footsteps of completion (and two others have achieved and/or surpassed Mr. Meyer's all-time achievement, by the numbers), but his mark set the standard.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 670 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the history lesson @pursuitofliberty, good to know some more history of the club 👍🏻

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    I have a few of Swampy's old coins, including this very cool crack monster ... a wonderful 11-112a


    Absolutely fantastic coin. Congratulations

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • GoBustGoBust Posts: 579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2024 4:26AM

    There was one club member who obtained all 453 including the fabled 3 Crushed Lettered Edge Proofs from 1833 to 1835 with an average grade of 63 for the entire collection. That collection was completed a few years after Charlton's passing. Swampy was legendary! Swampy had the best collection in the club and I suspect he held that status for more than two decades. His collection was sold in 2008. From what I have heard he was a fierce competitor both privately and at auction while building his set. His grade for the set was in the AU range overall. I've owned and enjoyed many of his coins over the years. Very meaningful pedigree IMHO.

  • MapsOnFireMapsOnFire Posts: 171 ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2024 1:52PM

    Here are some important pedigrees.
    Henry W. Beckwith, large cents. All top condition. S. H. Chapman catalog, 1923.
    Homer Downing, 1794 large cents. All with the letters H D (of HUNDRED) filled in with yellow paint. Collection sold by New Netherlands 1952 ANA auction catalog.
    I will add to this.

  • BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have some coins that have a greater pedigree.....

    There is another "Nut" that always used to introduce himself at the meetings by saying he collected Swampy's rejects or duplicates....Well, I collect HIS rejects that used to belong to Swampy......

    So many stories about the old guys. Hell, I guess that makes me an old guy now......Out of the blue one day Swampy called me when I was a NEW member to the club. He had a question about a silversmith from my hometown. I had a reference manual and was able to look him up and help Swampy identify a counterstamp he had from him. Swampy, like most of the old guys, was very appreciative for the help from a Newby.

    I'll save the Scotch stories for some other time......

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
  • TunisTunis Posts: 428 ✭✭✭✭

    When I was collecting CBHs, in the beginning, I thought this pedigree would add value. Turns out I overpaid significantly and it is the only CBH I am “buried” in.

    Successful buys on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2

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