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Filing a $7500 insurance claim with USPS
blue227
Posts: 185 ✭✭
Has anyone CU board members ever had to file an insurance claim with USPS?
USPS recently lost a registered mail package of some regional PSA graded cards that I was mailing to someone that I had insured for $7500. I have a form that I need to complete to file the claim and one of the things they're asking for is proof of value. I was going to go with VCP but they don't show comp sales for the same card in the same grade. At the same time, I don't even know if the USPS person who reviews the case will even know or care about the difference in value between a PSA graded card vs. others (raw or slabbed).
Does anyone who has filed a collectibles-related claim have any tips to share to ensure that the process goes as smooth as possible? The last thing I want to have happen is for them to contest my valuation and only refund me a fraction of the insured value. thx.
USPS recently lost a registered mail package of some regional PSA graded cards that I was mailing to someone that I had insured for $7500. I have a form that I need to complete to file the claim and one of the things they're asking for is proof of value. I was going to go with VCP but they don't show comp sales for the same card in the same grade. At the same time, I don't even know if the USPS person who reviews the case will even know or care about the difference in value between a PSA graded card vs. others (raw or slabbed).
Does anyone who has filed a collectibles-related claim have any tips to share to ensure that the process goes as smooth as possible? The last thing I want to have happen is for them to contest my valuation and only refund me a fraction of the insured value. thx.
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<< <i>How about using the values that you claimed when you initially sent the items to PSA? >>
Will the USPS accept that as "proof"? I think you have to show that something actually has the value for which you insured it.
Your toughest task will be providing acceptable EVIDENCE that establishes the cost or value of your cards AT THE TIME they were mailed.
Since they weren't graded yet, you will have a tough time using VCP or the SMR for the purpose of value.
Hopefully you have a few receipts or credit card statements that can help prove some value.
I'm sure that someone else on the boards will be able to ease your pain with a positive experience/plan that worked for them.
I posted USPS's explanation of EVIDENCE OF VALUE for others to read.
Evidence of Value
The customer, either the mailer or the addressee, must submit acceptable evidence to establish the cost or value of the article at the time it was mailed. (Other evidence may be requested to help determine an accurate value.) Examples of acceptable evidence are:
a. Sales receipt, invoice or bill of sale, or statement of value from a reputable dealer.
b. For items valued up to $100, the customer's own statement describing the lost or damaged article and including the date and place of purchase, the amount paid, and whether the item was new or used (only if a sales receipt or invoice is not available). If the article mailed is a hobby, craft, or similar handmade item, the statement must include the cost of the materials used in making the item. The statement must describe the article in sufficient detail to determine whether the value claimed is accurate.
c. Picture from a catalog showing the value of a similar article (only if a sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable dealer is not available). The date and place of purchase must be included.
d. Paid repair bills; if the claim is for partial damage, estimates of repair costs or appraisals from a reputable dealer. Repair costs may not exceed the original purchase price.
e. Receipt or invoice for the costs incurred to buy a surety bond required to reissue a lost item.
f. Receipt or invoice of costs incurred for the reconstruction of nonnegotiable documents.
g. A copy of a canceled check, money order receipt, credit card statement, or other documentation indicating the amount paid. For Internet purchases, a copy of the front and back of the canceled check, money order, or a copy of the credit card billing statement is required.
h. For Internet transactions conducted through a Web-based payment network that offers payment services through a stored value account, provide a computer printout of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed. The printout must clearly identify the Web-based payment network provider through which the Internet transaction was conducted.
Good luck,
PoppaJ
if the tranaction was through ebay i would include the final auction page as evidence. maybe that will help.
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
<< <i>......Since they weren't graded yet, you will have a tough time using VCP or the SMR for the purpose of value............ >>
The way I read the original post the cards were already PSA graded.
you're right!
I totally misread his first sentence.
I should have known better not to reply to any posts before I take my meds.
PoppaJ
James
Good luck.
This took daily calls to the center in St Louis.
THis was for a little over $130 (Back when over $50 needed to go through the system)
Good Luck to you
GOOD LUCK!
<< <i>I don't know the answer but I would over document value rather than under document. Make it obvious what they are worth.
GOOD LUCK! >>
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Yup.
Because the amount is relatively high, I would consider finding a lawyer friend
to package and submit my docs. He could note that all communications and
requests for further information should be submitted to him/her.
It can turn out to be important that the claimant NOT make any spontaneous
oral statements to the inspectors that might impair his claim. The claims examiners
are generally fair, but they are NOT your friends; if they can touch a legitimate
path to denying a claim, they will often do so.
With a lawyer out front, it will be clear to the carrier that any appearance of
bad faith will not go unchallenged.
Bills of Sale and invoices are the best evidence of value. The docs attendant to
the PSA mailing are not dispositive, but they should help you put together legit
support for your claim.
You can be certain that a SERIOUS hunt for the lost package is underway. It
may well be located, or, at least, the mystery of its disappearance may be
solved.
gl
What complicates this case is that you did not purchase these cards from ebay or somewhere else right before they got lost, otherwise the purchase receipt and proof of payment would have sufficed. You are merely sending these cards to someone else--no sale taking place?
A card shop owner is allowed to write a letter for you (a reputable dealer--the board can find you one I am sure). Just reveal the contents of the lost package and let the card shop owner or dealer write the value of each item. Values can be found on the internet as Actual Cash Value or market value. That should help you. A professional appraiser would be the next step up but they only put values on cards they can see, not hypotheticals. When you read the USPS instructions of how to prove fair value of a lost item as written several posts above, it mentions getting a written value from a dealer, not necessarily an appraiser.
edit for syntax
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
was it sent with delivery confirmation or anything?maybe it will pop up eventually, the po has a way of misplacing things sometimes in the black hole of the postal system,
You will eventually get your money (probably not all of it) in 6-9 months after you file paperwork. I have only had to file two claims ever with the PO, one on an item I purchased and another on one I sold. It took roughly 6 months for both to be paid.
If you can't get an exact match on VCP, ebay, SMR, etc, or if the SMR values don't reflect reality, maybe Bobby can help with comparables. In his database he might have something similar with a similar value. If USPS would accept the opinion of an "expert", and the price guides don't have the exact item, he might be an acceptable "expert" and they might accept his comparables.
Storm is right about using a lawyer friend. Most USPS people aren't good with aggressive people, but they also know that USPS is at fault in your case and has to make it right. USPS doesn't like bad publicity and will usually try to resolve problems before they become public.
///////////////////////////////////////////
Each person's experience with the process is likely to be a bit different
than another person's.
All of my dealings with the scheme have been fairly painless.
If you handle the process yourself - usually fine to do on small dollar
amounts - it is important not to be impatient in talking to or writing to the
folks handling the claim. They are not interested in any of your opinions
about how the process works. They simply want to keep the matter
impersonal and professional. They know how the system works and
making them uncomfortable or blaming them for delays will always be
met with passive-agressive behavior that will DELAY things further.
Questioning "why" the adjuster/inspector needs requested information
is the number one fight-starter. Just comply with their requests.
If you feel you are being treated unfairly, there are ample avenues
to appeal any decisions. Being "nice" is the best way to avoid adverse
decisions.
<< <i>As painful as it is for me to admit, I happen to agree with stevek. Whats next, dogs and cats living together? >>
will the dogs have bees in their mouths and when they bark bees come out at you?
I too agrees with stevek. Could someone explain to me the reason why the post office does not do it that way? Besides the easy fact that they don't want to give you money... It doesn't seem likely that this is something easily exploitable (in the lost package sense). I guess I could see room for fraud if the package was just "damaged".
1996 Select Certified Mirror Gold Ozzie Smith
2006 Bowman Chrome Orange Refractor Chris Carpenter
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Sadly, that solution would be an invitation to fraud that would eventually
put insurance premiums out of the reach of those who need them most.
Imagine the chaos that would reign, if folks were required to "prove values"
PRIOR to mailing/insuring their items. YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The value of lost items at the various carriers is likely proprietary, BUT it is
pretty safe to assume that as a percentage of items carried those that
get lost make up tiny numbers.
Filing insurance claims is never pleasant, but the system is pretty sleek
relative to the benefits it is able to offer.
............
If I was the OP, I would still be expecting the lost item to be found before
the claims process plays out.
<< <i>"...when insuring a package for say $7,500...you would think that if the package is lost then...(drum roll) you would get a check for $7,500 and shouldn't have to prove..."
//////////////////////////////////////////
Sadly, that solution would be an invitation to fraud that would eventually
put insurance premiums out of the reach of those who need them most.......... >>
Very good 2 fold point storm; A) It makes sense.
I must say I'm feeling better already.
USPS recently lost a registered mail package of some regional PSA graded cards that I was mailing to someone that I had insured for $7500.
It was a registered item, one that has to be signed for every step of the way. I'd let them know that I'd paid for registered mail because I did not want to lose this item!
Steve
Steve
<< <i>"...when insuring a package for say $7,500...you would think that if the package is lost then...(drum roll) you would get a check for $7,500 and shouldn't have to prove..."
//////////////////////////////////////////
Sadly, that solution would be an invitation to fraud that would eventually
put insurance premiums out of the reach of those who need them most.
Imagine the chaos that would reign, if folks were required to "prove values"
PRIOR to mailing/insuring their items. YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The value of lost items at the various carriers is likely proprietary, BUT it is
pretty safe to assume that as a percentage of items carried those that
get lost make up tiny numbers.
Filing insurance claims is never pleasant, but the system is pretty sleek
relative to the benefits it is able to offer.
............
If I was the OP, I would still be expecting the lost item to be found before
the claims process plays out. >>
UPS "clamped down" on this "lost package" fraud some years ago. Drivers were picking up multiple, many, packages from a particular jeweler in NY, and not counting each one in the log book, which at the time was done manually, and the scamming business owner would login an insurance amount and simply not place the package in the stack of packages. The UPS driver would load his truck and signoff on picking up the packages, but of course it would unknowingly to him be one package short, and then the business owner would later file a claim of a lost package. Of course like most scumbag thieves, they usually wouldn't get caught if they weren't greedy, but they all succumb to greed, and i believe it was around $250,000 in "lost" packages that were insured, then UPS investigated this and the scammer was successfully prosecuted.
Bottom line - My viewpoint is fraud can be drastically reduced if the post office was held more accountable for their packages, which they could easily do and making insurance claims easy for the claimant to get their checks, would "force" the post office to buckle down, become more aware, and take much stronger action against fraud such as "lost" packages which no doubt in my mind are not lost, but stolen, by some of their employees. I think you would find that successfully instituting a system such as this, would actually lower insurance rates, as well as making payment claims faster and easier. But do they have the will to do it? - probably not.
<< <i>
<< <i>"...when insuring a package for say $7,500...you would think that if the package is lost then...(drum roll) you would get a check for $7,500 and shouldn't have to prove..."
//////////////////////////////////////////
Sadly, that solution would be an invitation to fraud that would eventually
put insurance premiums out of the reach of those who need them most.
Imagine the chaos that would reign, if folks were required to "prove values"
PRIOR to mailing/insuring their items. YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The value of lost items at the various carriers is likely proprietary, BUT it is
pretty safe to assume that as a percentage of items carried those that
get lost make up tiny numbers.
Filing insurance claims is never pleasant, but the system is pretty sleek
relative to the benefits it is able to offer.
............
If I was the OP, I would still be expecting the lost item to be found before
the claims process plays out. >>
UPS "clamped down" on this "lost package" fraud some years ago. Drivers were picking up multiple, many, packages from a particular jeweler in NY, and not counting each one in the log book, which at the time was done manually, and the scamming business owner would login an insurance amount and simply not place the package in the stack of packages. The UPS driver would load his truck and signoff on picking up the packages, but of course it would unknowingly to him be one package short, and then the business owner would later file a claim of a lost package. Of course like most scumbag thieves, they usually wouldn't get caught if they weren't greedy, but they all succumb to greed, and i believe it was around $250,000 in "lost" packages that were insured, then UPS investigated this and the scammer was successfully prosecuted.
Bottom line - My viewpoint is fraud can be drastically reduced if the post office was held more accountable for their packages, which they could easily do and making insurance claims easy for the claimant to get their checks, would "force" the post office to buckle down, become more aware, and take much stronger action against fraud such as "lost" packages which no doubt in my mind are not lost, but stolen, by some of their employees. I think you would find that successfully instituting a system such as this, would actually lower insurance rates, as well as making payment claims faster and easier. But do they have the will to do it? - probably not. >>
.....and this is EXACTLY why I use UPS when shipping any "expensive" packages. I've had very few lost packages with them over the years, and the few that were lost - I had a check from them in about 3 weeks - basically hassle free.
They can do it before they issue the coverage, or they can do
it in the event of a claim.
Since few claims are filed - relative to items insured - it would
make no sense for the carrier to "verify" values PRIOR to
shipping.
We would be standing in line for hours to mail our stuff, while
the clerks reviewed "proof of value" documents. Of course,
those clerks are NOT qualified to do such reviews.
There really is no way to run the scheme in a substantially
different way than it is currently run.
............
USPS workers who lose registered stuff have a lot of explaining to do.
They don't usually get lots of chances to make the same mistakes.
- Joe
Again these were a lot lower than $7500 but if you have those things it obviously won't hurt your claim.
Lets say you paid $5000 for an item valued at $7500. You insure it for $7500 since you now "own" it and it gets lost in the mail. The USPS would try and pay you only 5k since that is what you paid for it. That to me is utter nonsense, since it is valued at $7500.
Assume that you really wanted an item valued at $7500, but bidding got heavy and you paid $10,000 for it, would the USPS pay 10k since that is what you paid, assuming you insured it for that? NO!!! They would try to give you the current "value"
To me value is value. I am sure there is some legal mumbo jumbo that deals with this, but in all honesty the USPS, especially on REGISTERED mail should take a little more care and if it was insured for $7500 then pay it, no questions asked.
<< <i>i am getting a little confused here. if you sell an item for $5000 and insure it for $5000 and the usps loses it, isnt a copy of your sales receipt the proof itself? what does it matter what you paid for it? >>
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Your legit EBAY and PayPal tickets are generally adequate proof.
<< <i>At some point, every insurance carrier has to "verify" values.
They can do it before they issue the coverage, or they can do
it in the event of a claim.
Since few claims are filed - relative to items insured - it would
make no sense for the carrier to "verify" values PRIOR to
shipping.
We would be standing in line for hours to mail our stuff, while
the clerks reviewed "proof of value" documents. Of course,
those clerks are NOT qualified to do such reviews.
There really is no way to run the scheme in a substantially
different way than it is currently run.
............
USPS workers who lose registered stuff have a lot of explaining to do.
They don't usually get lots of chances to make the same mistakes. >>
Of course they could run it differently and they should run it differently, which in my opinion would lower insurance rates and reduce losses if they were held strictly accountable, which they should be. If you've got a 1 million dollar insurance policy with Prudential and you die, and it wasn't suicide or some stipulation like that, then your beneficiary gets 1 million dollars - plain and simple, cut and dried. That's the way it should be.
I wonder how much expense the post office incurs, from all these "investigators" when they should simply and absolutely have a policy whereby if you take $7,500 in insurance, and they lose the package, you get a check for $7,500 - anything else is basically nonsense. Naturally like insurance fraud with say Prudential, if there is fraud committed by the claimant, then that person should and will be prosecuted. But someone who takes out a $7,500 "insurance policy" with the post office, and the post office deems the package lost, should pay the claimant the $7,500 without hassle and without further need of proving anything. That's the way it should be, but of course it's the government. Perhaps King Barack can make it better.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Hiring a lawyer might be the way to go. I might up end having to hire on to sue PayPal over their asinine rules over chargebacks so maybe i can get the same person to represent me for dealing with USPS.
Did everyone know that when I buyer files a chargeback claim (for whatever stupid reason they choose), all they have to do is provide PP with a delivery confirmation number that shows that something (actually, anything) was mailed by them to the same ZIP CODE. There is no need to show proof of delivery back to me, the seller, or to my address. All a scam artist buyer needs to do is to ship anything with a delivery confirmation number to THE SAME ZIP CODE and PP will consider the item RETURNED TO THE SELLER. As stupid as it sounds, it is sadly the truth.
I have the local USPS post office supervisor willing to write a letter on USPS letterhead stating that the returned item was mailed to another address and signed for another person who I've never met and PP tells me IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE PACKAGE WAS ADDRESSED TO SOMEONE ELSE'S ADDRESS. All that matters is that it was sent WITHIN MY ZIP CODE to someone (actually, anyone).
eBay's new requirement of PP only (no checks & MOs) is their way of saying the buyer will always be right in any sort of charge back claim provided the buyer knows the necessary details in how to scam the system.
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That's A Fact Jack.
.......
Lawsuits are the ONLY thing that will rehab EBAY and PayPal.
I thought it was almost impossible to lose a registered mail package till I read this.
I’m going through the same thing and it’s brutal.
The cards I shipped are irreplaceable
post your tracking info
I never ship registered. No faith in it.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
It’s been nearly 13 years...has the USPS settled your claim?! Proof of value will always save the USPS from paying out.
I know from experience.... $12000 in baseball cards became a $286 USPS payout on a lost package!
@bobmoat said:
I’ll post it after everything plays out / still have a small sliver of hope but not looking good
Really sad to read this Rich...
Best of luck.
I miss storm888.
Thanks, who’s Rich?
Man I am sorry to hear about the registered mail issue. I too always thought it foolproof.
I have some ungraded I am getting ready to send to PSA, roughly 10 - 15K in value, with a lot of it depending on my Doctor J rookie. How do you show proof of value on ungraded cards that have been in your collection for over 10 plus years. What's the best way to ship?
Thanks,
BC
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