Watch out for this ebay buyer!! Need some advice.
mmync
Posts: 678 ✭
I sold this Psa 8 A-rod rookie to someone on ebay with the screen name cvgbound for $165.00. His feeback is 19 (100% positive). I just got the following email from him, and I don't know how to respond. I submitted this card to Psa my self, and I've never had a complaint from a buyer before.
GOT THE CARD AND I'M PISSED OFF TO SAY THE LEAST!! YOU THINK ITS OK TO SELL PSA HOLDERS THAT HAVE BEEN CRACKED OPENED, INFERIOR CARDS SLIPPED IN & RESEALED WITH SUPER GLUE??? LOOKING BACK AT YOUR PICTURE ITS QUITE OBVIOUS (THE "MILKINESS" AROUND THE EDGES).
I WANT A COMPLETE REFUND PLUS THE COST OF SHIPPING TO SEND THIS GARBAGE BACK TO YOU. APPROPRIATE FEEDBACK WILL BE ISSUED & PAYPAL COMPLAINT FILED IF PROMPT ATTENTION IS NOT GIVEN.
GOT THE CARD AND I'M PISSED OFF TO SAY THE LEAST!! YOU THINK ITS OK TO SELL PSA HOLDERS THAT HAVE BEEN CRACKED OPENED, INFERIOR CARDS SLIPPED IN & RESEALED WITH SUPER GLUE??? LOOKING BACK AT YOUR PICTURE ITS QUITE OBVIOUS (THE "MILKINESS" AROUND THE EDGES).
I WANT A COMPLETE REFUND PLUS THE COST OF SHIPPING TO SEND THIS GARBAGE BACK TO YOU. APPROPRIATE FEEDBACK WILL BE ISSUED & PAYPAL COMPLAINT FILED IF PROMPT ATTENTION IS NOT GIVEN.
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Comments
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
threatening feedback extortion....
true dat, pop him on it
If he sends it back, be sure to open the package in front of a postal employee...I think we've all learned our lessons there.
<< <i>be sure to open the package in front of a postal employee...I think we've all learned our lessons there >>
Nice to see that grasshopper learns quickly! Bring a copy of your scans with you when you do. The more evidence the better. In the future try scanning against a colored background. Buy a pack of multicolored constuction paper and use the color that makes the card "pop" the best. Whatever color the borders of the card are you will have a cotrasting color to scan against. It's like having a $2 insurance policy against a-holes like this.
<< <i>
<< <i>be sure to open the package in front of a postal employee...I think we've all learned our lessons there >>
Nice to see that grasshopper learns quickly! Bring a copy of your scans with you when you do. The more evidence the better. In the future try scanning against a colored background. Buy a pack of multicolored constuction paper and use the color that makes the card "pop" the best. Whatever color the borders of the card are you will have a cotrasting color to scan against. It's like having a $2 insurance policy against a-holes like this. >>
I just posted scans of the card that I had in my photobucket, but here are the scans directly from the listing.
Depending on what your stated "return policy" is, you may be on the
hook. If returns are stated as "not permitted," game on. (Your ONLY
obligation to avoid returns is to "accurately describe" your items.)
1. PSA is listed as a defacto "approved/recommended" TPG by EBAY.
1A: Buyers are not permitted to substitute their own "grading skills" for
those of an "approved" TPG's professional graders, in a PP claim.
2. It is not possible for an untampered TPG product, by definition to be "SNAD."
3. The slab has NOT been tampered with, and the seller should insist that PP
force the "buyer" to prove to the contrary.
4. IF the slab has been tampered with, it sould be the seller's position that
the "buyer" did it and is trying to play a "switcheroo scam."
5. If the bots decide in the "buyer's" favor, the claim should be appealed.
6. If PP denies the appeal, file a claim with the San Jose BBB. PP has a
whole team doing nothing but settling BBB complaints with "courtesy
refunds."
(Meantime, sweep out your PP account.)
///////////////////////////
If you want to know what a few drops of most brands of super-glue will
do to a PSA slab, do a test. You will likely be surprised.
//////////////////////////
The "buyer" fraud has GOT to be stopped on EBAY. It is now totally out
of control. PP is an active accomplice in the fraud, and they need to
be forced to defend their CRIMES in small-claims courts all over America.
////////////
There is life after EBAY. Many other venues are becoming viable, and
more will follow.
Accepting PayPal on non-EBAY venues does NOT bear the same risks
or protections for sellers. This makes PP much more seller friendly.
On EBAY = "buyer protection policy."
Off EBAY = "buyer complaint policy."
The two schemes are TOTALLY different.
///////////////////
TODAY, EBAY is touting "expanded buyer protection." More opportunities
for SCUM to STEAL from sellers. Disgusting!!!!!
//////////////////////////////////////////////
Keeping it real.................
That is NOT "feedback extortion." Not even close.
Honestly, I'd allow him to return the card for a refund upon its return...it will most likely not contain your card or the right card. If this is the case, having the postal worker present to verify the contents is a must. At that point, you can go to bat with PayPal with the evidence on your side...cut the snake off at the head and keep PayPal out of it until the ball is in your court.
It was good as gold when it went out.
I suspect it may not be when it is returned.
////////////////////////////
Back in the day, in my family' stores, we NEVER called the cops on shoplifters.
//////////////////////////////
I am sure of it.
The first task for new employees in stamp shops is to learn to break-down
collections. Seperate the good stuff, from the other stuff. Handling large
quantities of the stuff is really the ONLY way to learn it.
As a ute, I would dream of stamps EVERY night.
Now days, when I get a worker that is interested, I put them on breakdown
detail. They ALL say they "dream about stamps."
<< <i>Ok, I got a question. This crook says "LOOKING BACK AT YOUR PICTURE ITS QUITE OBVIOUS (THE "MILKINESS" AROUND THE EDGES)" If the "MILKINESS AROUND THE EDGES" is quite obvious to him in the scans, then it should be just as obvious to someone at Psa right??? >>
lol, the "frosting" pattern is what you would expect from the welding process, even and uniform in every way.
do have a lot more of the frosty look from the welding process. Years ago, it used to
be crystal clear. I personally don't like it too much, and to the inexperience buyer, it can
be perceived as a tampered holder. Looking at the scan from your photobucket, I can see
why he's so ticked off. I believe that the new frost-like impressions here and there are to
make the holder super tight. I've had holders from years past when I cracked them opened,
they just popped open very easily and didn't show much if any frosting once it was cracked.
Just refund his money after you get it back and hope it goes okay. Good luck.
<< <i>If I give him a refund, he will probably send me back a card that he cracked out and super glued. >>
That's what I was thinking. It sounds like a ploy to me.
Get the card back. Issue the refund upon inspecting the slab
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
If it was me I'd tell the guy to return for a refund but it better be the same exact card. As for the shipping I'd refund the
return shipping or the original shipping but not both.
Maybe say it nicer.
Also what he said was NOT feedback extortion. Had he said he would give a negative then yes, saying appropriate feedback
will be issued is not extortion.
Not sure how a Postal clerk will help in this case as he/she has no idea what was sent out to begin with.
He/she can only attest that an item was sent back.
Good luck, seems we hear about ebay/paypal nightmares daily around here.
Steve
Hello Randall, I am very sorry that you are not happy with the card. Are you saying that the card that you received is not the card that was in the listing?
Mike
His response was...
OH ITS THE CARD IN THE LISTING BUT THE PROBLEM IS YOU SOLD ME A PSA HOLDER THAT WAS CRACKED OPENED & SUPERGLUED BACK TOGETHER. ITS AN OBVIOUS TAMPER & YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURE. LOOK AT THE EDGES OF THE HOLDER ALL AWAY AROUND. THE PLASTIC TURNED WHITE FROM THE STRESS OF CRACKING IT OPEN. IF YOU DIDNT DO IT, THE PERSON YOU GOT IT FROM DID. AND I'M GLAD THE PROOF IS IN THE PICTURE SO THERE WILL BE NO SUGGESTING I'M TRYING TO PULL SOME SORT OF SCAM. I WANT ENOUGH TO COVER THE COST TO SEND IT BACK WITH SIGNATURE & THEN A FULL REFUND.
So, he just admitted that he received the exact card that was in the listing. How can Ebay and/or Paypal enforce a "significantly not as described" claim if the buyer admits that he got received the exact card that was in the listing??
I'm not sure if it matters or not, but he uses a P.O. Box
And if it was the same card as in the pic why did he bother bidding on it then?
If it was me I'd get the card back and refund him his dough minus the shipping, You are getting a neg no matter what.
Steve
oh and sorry this happened to you.
Steve
1.The guy is a CROOK.
2. The guy does not know what a tampered slab looks like.
//////
The item is not SNAD, and it was not tampered when it was shipped; based on the scan.
Seller should insist that PayPal force the "buyer" to send the card to PSA for examination.
If they say it's tampered, we will know the "buyer" did it; based on the seller's story details.
SNAD via tampering?
Prove It.
//////////////////////////////
I would NOT pay the "buyer" 5-cents for return-postage, and I would NOT willingly
let him get away with his carp.
(As I noted before, OP's "return policy" may give folks the option to return stuff for
any reason. If so, OP is out of luck.)
Then, through the PP platform.
////////////////////
You might check with some of his previous sellers to see if he has
pulled this carp before.
That said, I am a bit concerned that he mentioned the angle of him cracking the slab and doing the switch.
I hope he is just sincerely of the belief it was received tampered rather than trying to scam you here.
Good luck in however you decide to address this and let us know how it all turns out.
Snorto~
He buys cards from listings that don't even have scans of the card, and then leaves them negative feedback. He just left someone a neg today!!
I would fight for my correct position, in this matter.
the buyer most likely is still huffin' and puffin' from another very recent negative
transaction that he's had this month. LINK
check out his feedback from others (read the positives closely as a couple have negative comments!).
also check out his feedback to others; the guy has a few issues going on.
Funny that the guy said "LOOKING BACK AT YOUR PICTURE ITS QUITE OBVIOUS (THE "MILKINESS" AROUND
THE EDGES) ... which means that he did indeed bid on what he saw in the picture and didn't ask questions BEFORE
he bid!
Emailing you in all caps says a lot about the character of this individual to say the least.
Ross could be right about this guy being a "frosty" opportunist!
I had a very similar situation from a newbie and it didn't take eBay long to figure out
who the nutjob was. (it wasn't me!)
You will NOT lose this case!
No need to empty your PayPal account either.
There is no feedback extorsion, but there is "cost of shipping" extorsion which eBay will look at as
an unreasonable request.
Bottom line: tell this clown that you will be more than happy to accept a return and will refund his
purchase price (minus shipping & handling). Also be clear in telling him that you are not responsible
for return shipping costs.
Very probable that you'll get a negative feedback either way, but sh*t happens.
Incidentally, the negative we received was erased 2 days after we won our case.
I'd like to introduce this idiot to some fishies
PoppaJ
I can't figure out how to get to my blocked bidder list. Anyone?
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
<< <i>Ok,
I can't figure out how to get to my blocked bidder list. Anyone? >>
////////////////
Click on sitemap - top right.
The BBL link is in the center column, a few inches down.
buy.com
Recent Feedback Ratings (last 12 months)
1 month 6 months 12 months
Positive 52858 273207 307299
Neutral 199 1216 1437
Negative 180 1206 1302
/////////////////
buy.com chases away HUNDREDS of buyers a month from EBAY.
They have links all over their listings that redirect buyers to the
"real" buy.com site.
A small seller gets one whacko "buyer," and he is suspended.
Who really hurts the venue more?
Psa, and I can assure you that the slab has never been cracked open, the
card has never been switched out, and the slab has never been resealed with
super glue by me or anyone else. You already admitted to me that you received
the exact card that was pictured in the listing. You claim that you can tell
in the scans that the slab has been cracked open, and resealed. If it is
that obvious to you, then I am sure it would be even more obvious to some
of the head people at Psa. I appreciate your business, and I am sorry that the card
doesn't meet your expectations, but the card that you received is the exact
card that was graded by Psa.
He replied with...if you received this from psa then you are a lying crook. this card is OBVIOUSLY tampered with. see the "white" around the edges??? thats supper glue pal!!!
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Great!!!!
ANOTHER psycho-stupido set loose on honest EBAY sellers.
.......
Anybody who wants to see what MOST - not all - super-glue does to
a slab, should find a busted one and experiment.
I would stop communicating with him.
Your goal should be to force PayPal to tell the "buyer" to send the
card to PSA to "prove" his claim.
Tell PayPal you will gladly refund him if PSA says the slab is tampered.
It is sounding more like simple buyer's remorse than a switcheroo, but
there is no way to know that unless you can see/hold the slab.
..................
If you decide to communicate with him more, you might ask him to email
you a photo of the thing. If he messed with it, you might be able to tell.
...........
You should also contact the other sellers he dealt with. They could have
some fine stories to tell.
I am done jacking with this guy to tell you honestly. I hope you nail him to the wall though. He was a ass to me. I offered him a refund and then he responded with a smart ass answer and then I basically told him to %&^! himself. He dropped the negative on me. With the way he talks to sellers, he will be off of ebay in a few months anyway. Good luck and keep me updated on your problem with him.
He already filed a dispute, and then escalated it to a claim.
Explain your position, and tell PP that the AH should send the thing
to PSA to "prove" his bogus SNAD claim.
Keep all of your comments professional and don't make any angry
sounding cracks.
If you are not prepared to fight it through to the final steps, you
might as well toss the towel and save yourself some time.
Explain in your own polite words:..................
.................
(Your ONLY obligation to avoid returns is to "accurately describe" your items.)
1. PSA is listed as a de facto "approved/recommended" TPG by EBAY.
1A: Buyers are not permitted to substitute their own "grading skills" for
those of an "approved" TPG's professional graders, in a PP claim.
2. It is not possible for an untampered TPG product, by definition, to be "SNAD."
3. The slab has NOT been tampered with, and the seller should insist that PP
force the "buyer" to prove to the contrary.
4. IF the slab has been tampered with, it should be the seller's position that
the "buyer" did it and is trying to play a "switcheroo scam."
5. If the bots decide in the "buyer's" favor, the claim should be appealed.
6. If PP denies the appeal, file a complaint with the San Jose BBB. PP has a
whole team doing nothing but settling BBB complaints with "courtesy
refunds."
.......
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Transaction Amount: -$165.00 USD
We have determined that your buyer is entitled to a refund for this
transaction. To receive this refund, the buyer must return the item to you
and provide us with their shipping information. Once we verify this
information, we will issue the buyer a refund from your PayPal account.
Please note, the buyer is responsible for the cost of returning the item to
you.
We apologize for the difficulties you had with this transaction and truly
hope that you find this resolution to be fair and reasonable for everyone
involved.
Sincerely,
PayPal
//////////////////////////////////////////
That speculation may be true, but we have no evidence of it.
The PP determination is bot-generated. You are free to appeal
to a human, if you choose to.
If the guy returns the card, check it closely for tampering.
You might want to let PSA reslab it, to avoid future Qs about
the "frosting."
I have a question. What good would opening a package right in front of the postal employee do? It is very unlikely they will write an affidavit of support or show up as your witness. I think I understand the potential witness a postal employee would make, but seriously, will they really help us when push comes to shove? I would certainly help if I was in the position, but not everyone responds in this way. It would have to be a postal employee you have some rapport with.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the difficulties you have had
with cvgbound.
We're always concerned about any potential violation on eBay and are
grateful to our members for helping us spot problems so we can correct
them. Although we can't discuss one member's account with another
member, I can tell you that the member you reported is currently not a
registered eBay user.
Thank you for using eBay for your online trading needs.
Sincerely,
Cullan
eBay Customer Support
<< <i>What good would opening a package right in front of the postal employee do? It is very unlikely they will write an affidavit of support or show up as your witness. I think I understand the potential witness a postal employee would make, but seriously, will they really help us when push comes to shove? >>
If in fact there was a problem, be it an empty package, switch of item, box of rocks etc... it would be a mail fraud issue. If the USPS employee is at work, he/she is pretty much bound to try to uphold the integrity of the system. A postmaster would be the best person to use, but a window clerk or carrier would be questioned by the postal officials as to what they witnessed. When it comes to a buyer vs seller issue, at least you have an impartial witness.
The clerk/carrier would have to get involved when asked to by the superior, be it the investigators or the postmaster. They would be forced to fill out a form if mail fraud is being investigated.
Mail fraud is something that is taken very seriously. When you are the wronged party to have them on your side can't hurt.
Tell them you think the guy is trying to SCAM you, and you want
them to enter your appeal and find in your favor.
....
OTOH, I have never had a NARUd buyer return an item in order
to get their PP refund. If you do nothing, and the "buyer" does
not enter a valid DC, the claim will auto-close on its expiration date.