My philosophy on the commems.
pop1
Posts: 234
I think the 144 piece set and the 50 piece type set are two collections with totally different characteristics and collectors. What will the new "commem collector" be like with the onset of the commem subsets?
I collect the 144 pc. set and can't see ever having 144 "monster toned" pieces. On the other hand, if I only collected the 50 pc. set, perhaps a "monster toned" set would be possible.
I also don't go after those monsters as they would, in my opinion, "stick out".
(This way, I've never worried about the AT stuff either.)
I have chosen to "go with" the beautiful original white and "rimmed toned" beauties. A particularly strong benefit of this set is that the rimmed toned and white coins in the same grade as the "monster toned" coins may be technically superior, in that a "hit" on a white coin is obvious, whereas the same "hit" on a toned piece may be somewhat obscure.
Also, this makes my ability to put together a relatively well-matched set, and rimmed toned beauties do look marvelous.
They, with the brilliant white coins all allow a full and clear view of the design. And the rimmed toned ones give off the desired "color" of the set, in general.
What do you think?
I collect the 144 pc. set and can't see ever having 144 "monster toned" pieces. On the other hand, if I only collected the 50 pc. set, perhaps a "monster toned" set would be possible.
I also don't go after those monsters as they would, in my opinion, "stick out".
(This way, I've never worried about the AT stuff either.)
I have chosen to "go with" the beautiful original white and "rimmed toned" beauties. A particularly strong benefit of this set is that the rimmed toned and white coins in the same grade as the "monster toned" coins may be technically superior, in that a "hit" on a white coin is obvious, whereas the same "hit" on a toned piece may be somewhat obscure.
Also, this makes my ability to put together a relatively well-matched set, and rimmed toned beauties do look marvelous.
They, with the brilliant white coins all allow a full and clear view of the design. And the rimmed toned ones give off the desired "color" of the set, in general.
What do you think?
0
Comments
Earlier this week, I had an opportunity to review the Commems in the upcoming Benson sale, as well as the Commems in the Superior sale. There are, once again, some very "special" toned coins in those sales. But, for every super neat toned beauty, there are a ton of run of the mill toned pieces offered for sale, imho. Then, there are some neat white coins as well. Now, we all know what people will pay for super toned Commems. But, there are often great bargains to be had on the white coins and rim toned beauties. These (high quality, high end white coins) do seem like interesting coins to pluck up while no one cares about them. The other 90% of the "average" toned coins or off-white or unattractive white coins will always be average only. In fact, I have mentioned my concern to several well seasoned Commem dealers and collectors and they tend to agree with me-nice Commems are so tough to locate that the 90% of the "average" coins floating around are tough to sell, resulting in surplus inventory always being on the market (unlike MS67 silver Wash Quarters for examples, which perhaps, overall, 80%+ look fine (and attractive) for the grade.
So, the abundance of average Commems out there may continue to make it appear that prices remain low on the sheets, etc., while the "killer" commems really perform. These markets are often like night and day and the coins often look like night and day compared to each other!
Conclusion: I spent too long getting here, but my conclusion is I also love the opportunity in nice white and rim colored commems and have started a personal collection myself. And, by "opportunity" I mean the chance to get a lot of great coins for my money (good "bang for the buck"), hence, enhancing my personal enjoyment. I have no plans to personally "invest" in Commems.
I certainly agree that the 144 coin set is a different animal from the 50 coin set. The difference is a bit like date collecting versus type collecting, but there is really no parallel I can think of in coin collecting to the 144 piece set. It takes real dedication and patience to assemble. I started the 50 coin set in November of 1969, and just completed it in May of last year! It was a great feeling of accomplishment. I am now thinking about adding the key varieties (star, 2x2, etc), but I am a bit intimidated by the 144 coin set. I definitely haven't stopped buying -- I'm slowly adding toned pieces, so I may end up with two sets -- white and toned. As you know, it is hard to put it down. Also, I have a few subsets within my set -- the circulated set that Braddick got me started on, and a "grade set" of Oregon Trails -- at the moment I have VF35 plus MS61,65,66, and 68. I'm quite seriously thinking of doing a date set of Oregon trail, and after that -- who know? Also, I'm intrigued by the various die varieties for the Lafayette, but it is so hard to even find a nice type piece, I doubt that I'll ever collect them.
Sorry for rambling!
(PS -- the Oregon Trail is one of the few coins that is attractive in any grade, even MS61 !)
Shhh, you're giving away all our 144 pc collecting secrets
I totally agree with your observations. I collect white or lightly rim toned pieces for my set. I do appreciate nicely toned commem's and have acquired some beauties, but they are part of my toned coin set and will be replaced in the registry with white coins once I find the right coin.
Monster toned commem's are rare birds and I would think it would take a couple of lifetimes to put together a monster 144 pc. set.
Maybe I should start another thread, but let me ask a question here.
I naively thought based on price that the BTW's and W/C's would be fairly easy to put together. I have found over the last few years that they are very tough to find in white or lightly rim toned. They are either very scratchy on the face or have an ugly charcoal or brown tone that just doesn't appeal to me. I have picked up several beautifully toned BTW's for way over the price of the same graded white piece. Should I settle for mediocre 65's & 66's or should I be patient? I'm afraid that the few nice piece's that I haven't been able to find are all locked up in collections and those collectors aren't selling.
Sorry for rambling.
Gary
And even tougher to find ones with smooth unmarked portraits. I guess the dies were at fault here.
I like the looks of some ms65 and ms66s but the real goal is a coin as mark-free as possible, while nicely toned. I really like the beautifully toned ms67s.
I second ArkieT's comments about the difficulty in finding "white" BTW's and WC's (though, come on--don't you find it odd to be discussing white BTW's and WC's?). I started collecting BTW's because I admired BTW, because I thought they were likely "underpriced," and because I also thought the set would be relatively easy to obtain. Boy, was I wrong! And white WC's seem very scarce.
Pop1, you clearly have your finger on the pulse of the commemorative market: Is there any reason for the scarcity of white or rim-toned BTW's and WC's? The populations seem high, but the coins seem incrediably scarce--is it because the price is so low that it doesn't pay to advertise them or because the owners don't want to part with them at low prices?
Thanks in advance.
Mark
A quality BTW set in p6 is relatively easy to complete.
A WC set is currently impossible to complete in p6, as the top grade for a '53d is ms65, There are only two '52d p6 coins, and other toughies in p6. Now this is a challenging set, especially in nicely toned coins or clean white ones. I find the BTW and WC sets the most enjoyable of any sets I've put together.
PS. These two gentlemen are most worthy of study, as well.
Typo: You meant MS65 right?
I think any reg-head worth his salt, could complete a set in p6 if desired.
Don't you have the makings of a p6 BTW set with just my dupes, Mitch? Is it available?
I will scan one that I have & post a link later. Interesting thread, thanks Jimmy
<a href="http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3403662/1013797081147_btwstacks.jpg">http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3403662/1013797081147_btwstacks.jpg</a>
Cameron Kiefer
I think the BTW's are more available than the WC's but I still don't find them all that common. I'm striving for a "blast white" set of BTW's in 66 and it's taken about 2 years to get half way there. I think that were I striving for a "blast white" mixed 65/66 set of WC's, it would take even longer. Indeed, the amount of time it has taken me to progress toward my very limited goal is another reason I find your collection so incredible!
Your comment about most of these coins being kept in rolls and bags was very insightful! Now that you mention it, I'd have to guess that the rolls are where the rim-toned coins were created. Do you think the bags created the all-too-common dark toning? If so, how is that Morgan dollars kept for decades longer in bags are (alleged) to have toned in beautiful colors, but BTW's and WC's kept in bags generally turned dark? Actually, the previous question is at least somewhat rhetorical in nature because I think I agree with you. I suspect that some of those beautiful "bag toned" dollars developed their toning rather more rapidly and artificially than their collector/owners would wish. Of course, another reasonable possiblity would be that Morgans were stored in different types of bags than BTW's and WC's.
Mark
P.S.: If you have duplicate blast white BTW's and WC's, you should tell Mitch to set these coins free! Or, at least to sell them....
Also, please feel free to send your want list to Mitch. I think that there will be a coin or two available for your set. Thank you.
A "monster toned" 144 piece commemorative set is a rare bird indeed. Most serious commem collectors and dealers would agree that the greatest set ever assembled was the fabulous Harold Rothenberger collection, which was auctioned by Superior in 1994. With the exception of seven or eight coins, I bought and subsequently sold the rest of them to Harold. Amazingly, to both myself and Harold, the task was completed in LESS than THREE years...quite an achievement even then. There is no way that I could duplicate that feat today with unlimited financial resources and TRIPLE the amount of time...but it sure would be fun to try!
Best Regards,
Mike De Falco
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Bruce Scher