Is dipping and cleaning the same thing?
zeek
Posts: 397
I have a low end XF 1789 8 reals, I'm not sure if it was here or an email list someone said the coin looks cleaned. I examined the coin and reported i saw no such lines to indicate cleaning. Then he said for a 200+ year old coin it's bound to have been dipped once. The first pic was what he was replying to as it show little toning, the second is true I got this from my uncle who is 83. He said his father gave it to him when he was 13 and he never knew his father yo dip nor has he/ Is dipping the same term as cleaning?
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bob
Dan
JMO
Ron
look at the accessible fields compared to the spaces adjacent, inbetween the lettering. if totally untouched I would have expected the fields to be uniformly dark(er)
maybe less so in your 2nd series of shots...that being said.. I think it's a really attractive pillar dollar Id be proud to have in my collection, and it's not even from my family line!!!
hold onto it proudly for the next generation!
Jonathan
A coin can be dipped, but not cleaned.
..and..
A coin can be cleaned but not dipped.
Additionally -
A dipped coin can be considered cleaned, over-dipped, stripped and ruined.
A cleaned coin can be dipped, etched, polished, whizzed, buffed and ruined.
Your 8 Reales appears to have been carefully-cleaned, but not dipped.
I knew it would happen.
Yours is the right one.
In numismatic terms dipping is an undetectable non abrasive chemical cleaning.
Cleaning is an abrasive cleaning.
A coin that has been dipped so much that the surface has been damaged is "altered surfaces."
<< <i>Like so many things in numismatics, "cleaning" has never really been carefully defined. To me, dipping is a form of cleaning. >>
Agree. Dipping is most assuridly a type of cleaning. Many consider it acceptable if the luster isn't disturbed. Others consider any dipping to be unacceptable.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
For everyone here posting dipping and cleaning are the same, then probably at least 50% of the brilliant white coins being sold on Ebay, privately or in coin shops as 'original' should be classified as 'cleaned'.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
But you got to draw the line somewhere!
While examining a circulated 93-S Morg that I can actually touch with my grimy sweaty little hands I forgot I just ate fried chicken so I dip the coin in some warm soapy water then rinse it off by holding it under the faucet; that is most certainly cleaning!
But if I sell it on the BST Board and don’t put CLEANED in my ad am I being dishonest? Should that result in a body bag?
If while examining the coin an eyelash falls on it and I give it a short gentle puff to blow the lash off I just cleaned it too, didn’t I, because I removed a foreign object from it?
But you got to draw the line somewhere and since we are numismatics we should speak in generally accepted numismatic terms. Dipping is not considered cleaning in those terms.
As far as the OP’s Pillar Dollar, to me it looks like it has been carried as a recent pocket piece due to the shine but consider the source; it has been around for over 200 years and the last owner was a 13 year old boy so there’s a strong likelihood it has been rubbed with a pencil eraser, wiped with a paper towel, polished with a shirttail, washed in something but if it’s not blatant I wouldn’t be quick to label it “cleaned.”
<< <i>And the biggest difference in MONEY........a dipped coin will go for par....well toned in excess of par and cleaned...well somewhere down below of par depending on how severe. >>
Depends on the toning. Most toned coins are not attractive enough to bring any premium.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
However, dipping the wrong coin IS the wrong thing to do though.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>They are not mutually exclusive. >>
Right on the button jmski. I saw Jonathan's post right before I went to bed and I was beat so I never replied. From what I remember of the coin I'd hardly say "hairlines'. More like scratches and nicks. With an 8x or even a 4x you can see more than you'd expect in XF, so perhaps VF35 it is. However it's age, size, being a world coin might make a difference. But there is no series of parallel lines indicating abrasive cleaning. If I submitted this would they(TPGs) know if it was dipped or not? If so would it be labeled "cleaned"?
Al
<< <i>Dog97 got it right.
Al >>
Really ? Putting your coin in soapy water is cleaning ?
Why yeah!! Soap & water is usually equated with something getting cleaned.
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<< <i>Like so many things in numismatics, "cleaning" has never really been carefully defined. To me, dipping is a form of cleaning. >>
That is 100% correct, some of the more unethical people will try to claim it is not but the very essence of dipping is to "clean off" undesirable contaminants from a coins surface. There are different levels of cleaning some more detectable then others but in the end it is all the same, to "clean off" undesirable dirt, film, color whatever from a coins surface to increase its eye appeal and value.
<< <i>That is 100% correct, some of the more unethical people will try to claim it is not but the very essence of dipping is to "clean off" undesirable contaminants from a coins surface. There are different levels of cleaning some more detectable then others but in the end it is all the same, to "clean off" undesirable dirt, film, color whatever from a coins surface to increase its eye appeal and value. >>
Agreed
<< <i>
<< <i>Like so many things in numismatics, "cleaning" has never really been carefully defined. To me, dipping is a form of cleaning. >>
That is 100% correct, some of the more unethical people will try to claim it is not but the very essence of dipping is to "clean off" undesirable contaminants from a coins surface. There are different levels of cleaning some more detectable then others but in the end it is all the same, to "clean off" undesirable dirt, film, color whatever from a coins surface to increase its eye appeal and value. >>
Really now!
I suppose pulling a nice MS coin from a cash register and calling it "uncirculated" would be "unethical" as well? I mean, technically, its been circulated.
At least from the technical aspect I mean..........................
Well, here's a couple I pulled straight from cash drawers:
Would I be "unethical" stating that the coins were "uncirculated?
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!