Yeah, I like a good fight and all but this doesn't quite make total sense. You didn't realize for yourself when the cards were in your hand that they weren't going to grade 8-9's? If you're mad at MrBurgundy for selling you over-graded cards then obviously you shouldn't have submitted them to PSA...otherwise...be mad at PSA. Seriously, you are obviously trying to make a board member look like a jackass so explain how you ended up with 6.5's from PSA. Did you ALSO think they were 8-9 when you looked at them? Hmmm
<< <i>Yeah, I like a good fight and all but this doesn't quite make total sense. You didn't realize for yourself when the cards were in your hand that they weren't going to grade 8-9's? If you're mad at MrBurgundy for selling you over-graded cards then obviously you shouldn't have submitted them to PSA...otherwise...be mad at PSA. Seriously, you are obviously trying to make a board member look like a jackass so explain how you ended up with 6.5's from PSA. Did you ALSO think they were 8-9 when you looked at them? Hmmm >>
I agree Roger. Not a good post. You should have rewrapped em returned 'the thing to Ron insisting on a complete refund -expressing your opinion why. Also, you could have asked Roger to help foot the bill for the low grades. You should be unhappy, but this public humiliation is BS. IMO Steve
for the guy below keeping score, My post was being typed as roger was posting his.
You paid approx $1.85 a card raw. Now you p*** and moan because they didn't grade higher. Why didn't you realize for your self they weren't going to grade higher??
<< <i>I agree Roger. Not a good post. You should have rewrapped em returned 'the thing to Roger insisting on a complete refund -expressing your opinion why. Also, you could have asked Roger to help foot the bill for the low grades. You should be unhappy, but this public humiliation is BS. IMO Steve >>
Public humiliation is the wrong term i believe.
When someone overgrades badly on ebay someone always makes a post on here to warn others, why is this any different?
Its humiliating for someone that posts so often on these boards to misrepresent cards and cheat other board members.
Where's jasp24 and the others who defend PSA when cards go from a 6 to an 8, maybe that's what all of those 6's really are Roger(kidding obviously, sorry to hear this)
<< <i>You paid approx $1.85 a card raw. Now you p*** and moan because they didn't grade higher. Why didn't you realize for your self they weren't going to grade higher?? >>
The price is irrelevant. I could care less about $1.85, or $50 or $150 in grading fees.
Did cards have centering issues that would keep the non-qualified grades down? A vending box will be full of NM/MT cards but off-centering will make most of the cards not worth sending in.
<< <i>Yeah, I like a good fight and all but this doesn't quite make total sense. You didn't realize for yourself when the cards were in your hand that they weren't going to grade 8-9's? If you're mad at MrBurgundy for selling you over-graded cards then obviously you shouldn't have submitted them to PSA...otherwise...be mad at PSA. Seriously, you are obviously trying to make a board member look like a jackass so explain how you ended up with 6.5's from PSA. Did you ALSO think they were 8-9 when you looked at them? Hmmm >>
I think your missing the point here. I believe that the hope would be as active CU board members, we should hold the integrity of collecting higher than most on EBAY. When your told by a fellow board member that your buying cards in NM/MT condition and on the whole they grade out substantially lower than that condition, its worth mentioning. I don't think that he's trying to make Mr. Burgundy look like a jackass. I apprecaite the thread, it will certainly make me think twice about buying raw cards from this seller!
You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
Anyone who sells cards will always grade them based on their own, lenient, misleading terms. When a seller does this, why should anyone be suprised? When a customer points it out, why should anyone care?
<< <i>You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that. >>
Wow again.
If you would be happy with that result then may I offer you a nice NMMT lot of opc cards.
<< <i>You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that. >>
I would suspect most people would NOT be happy if they bought that many cards and got that few 8's and 9's. If it was me that made that purchase and my cards came back graded that poorly, I would be pi$$ed!
<< <i>You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that. >>
I am also under the assumption that someone who deals in as many raw cards as he does and gets graded and has his own raw card threads would be able to provide accurate grades to fellow board members.
"Anyone who sells cards will always grade them based on their own, lenient, misleading terms. When a seller does this, why should anyone be suprised?......"
//////////////////////////////////////
I never intentionally overgrade anything.
And, I am not surprised when other sellers do.
Buying/Selling raw cards is a risky sport.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Cards are NM/MT across the board, and some better. A few could go 9. Total raw value is $71, they're yours for $50 delivered.
Thanks,
Ron
There is no Ron's side of the story. He posted this thread. I purchased the cards, there was no discussion. He shipped them i got them graded, the grades popped. I sent him a pm asking him if we wanted to buy back the cards since he overgraded by an average of 2 grades. He didnt respond after 2+ days and i posted this thread.
Why should this thread not have happened? If it was some No Name seller that didnt post on these boards that noone knew, we all would be having a field day talking about this. This happens to be a well known board member, and now we shouldn't post a thread of this nature?
This thread absolutely should have happened. I want to know about anyone that over grades their RAW cards. That's what these boards are for. Exchange of information.
Roger, While it's obvious you did not get good grades from PSA, you still haven't answered the question "Did you think they would grade high when you sent them in?" My last submission to PSA==the grades I got were an invitation to resub the cards as they were all over the board, borderline bull crap. Just to add.... Joe Orlando himself could give me a pile of cards and tells me they are NM-MT and I see dinged corners, I'm not submitting them. You should have worked this out with Ron instead of wasting your money. This seems like a smear campaign. How much money did you spend on that sub? Scan the cards when you get them back. I'm going to buy the PSA 7 1964 Mantle that is 80/20 side to side from Levi for $475 just to show the card is overgraded to save people from sending cards to PSA and buying cards from 707--I think not. It doesn't make sense. JMO.
I can't believe what I'm reading... Roger, you're wrong for dealing with it like this. Heck, in my opinion, you have nothing to complain about. You're the one who submitted them. I don't care that you submitted them just to prove a point, you're wrong here. There is always a risk in buying raw cards, no matter who you buy them from, even if you see them in person first. I would still buy from Ron, and after this thread, I'd think twice before dealing with you. No offense.
Ok, if the guy tried to contact Ron and got no response that is not a good sign I think. But doesn't Ron post often...he's a very well known board member why wouldn't he answer? And after thinking about it, stuck with those cards as he ended up being, I'd probably have submitted them also. I did not have all the facts on my first post, I apologize. You're in a crapy situation. Ron should at least respond to you in PM at the very least. Although grading is subjective LOL. Many times PSA and me have not agreed. Good luck anyway on future buys.
Roger you stated you gave him 2+ days to respond before posting this thread, what if Ron happened to be busy over the past few days and didnt have a chance to respond? Personally I have gotten PM's and Emails that went unanswered due to myself being busy did you think that it could be the case with Ron? If it is then I think it would be a shame if he didnt have a chance to respond and maybe would have offered you a refund, I can understand you being upset but I think I might have waited more than 3 days before I blew him up publicly, Ron has been around for awhile and as far as I can see is a respected member of this community. Im not passing judgment either way but Im sure Ron should get a chance to defend himself before any FINAL judgment is made here.
It sounds like Ron is overgrading his cards AND offering poor customer service. Having said that, maybe is on vacation. Otherwise he should address a fellow board member's (and a CUSTOMER) concerns.
I didn't check it but doesn't Ron have a coin in his CU avatar? Perhaps he's more of a coin collector than a card collector, and doesn't fully understand card grading?
<< <i>And after thinking about it, stuck with those cards as he ended up being, I'd probably have submitted them also. >>
According to Roger's post, he PM'd Ron AFTER he had them graded, not after he received them in the mail from Ron. It sounds like Roger agreed with Ron's grading and submitted them. Now that he got them back from PSA with lower grades than THEY expected, he has buyer's remorse. You're not the first person to have buyer's remorse in this hobby.
<< <i>Roger you stated you gave him 2+ days to respond before posting this thread, what if Ron happened to be busy over the past few days and didnt have a chance to respond?........... >>
Ron was on as recently as today posting in a few threads. Can anyone here say that they have had a PM sit unopened for almost 3 days when they have been logged in on 1, 2, or all of those 3 days?
<< <i>Roger you stated you gave him 2+ days to respond before posting this thread, what if Ron happened to be busy over the past few days and didnt have a chance to respond?........... >>
Ron was on as recently as today posting in a few threads. Can anyone here say that they have had a PM sit unopened for almost 3 days when they have been logged in on 1, 2, or all of those 3 days? >>
I cannot say that. If he was on then he definately should have responded to the PM, I wasnt clear on that.
Rogermnj
Posts: 1,809 ✭✭
Comments
Sorry about that Roger.
Matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>I'm not understanding. Did you have these in hand before submitting them all? >>
Yes but wanted to submit all anyway to see how overgraded they were
Ron, he's storming your castle!!!
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
Did you contact Ron before posting here?
<< <i>Yeah, I like a good fight and all but this doesn't quite make total sense. You didn't realize for yourself when the cards were in your hand that they weren't going to grade 8-9's? If you're mad at MrBurgundy for selling you over-graded cards then obviously you shouldn't have submitted them to PSA...otherwise...be mad at PSA. Seriously, you are obviously trying to make a board member look like a jackass so explain how you ended up with 6.5's from PSA. Did you ALSO think they were 8-9 when you looked at them? Hmmm >>
Wow is all i can say to this post.
<< <i>Im also not understanding something here.
Did you contact Ron before posting here? >>
Ofcourse I did and got no responce
for the guy below keeping score, My post was being typed as roger was posting his.
<< <i>......Also, you could have asked Roger to help foot the bill......... >>
He already said he contacted Ron and got no response.
<< <i>Im also not understanding something here.
Did you contact Ron before posting here? >>
Irrelevant.........does that change his opinion............... (facts)
<< <i>I agree Roger. Not a good post. You should have rewrapped em returned 'the thing to Roger insisting on a complete refund -expressing your opinion why. Also, you could have asked Roger to help foot the bill for the low grades. You should be unhappy, but this public humiliation is BS. IMO Steve >>
Public humiliation is the wrong term i believe.
When someone overgrades badly on ebay someone always makes a post on here to warn others, why is this any different?
Its humiliating for someone that posts so often on these boards to misrepresent cards and cheat other board members.
He should be ashamed.
<< <i>You paid approx $1.85 a card raw. Now you p*** and moan because they didn't grade higher. Why didn't you realize for your self they weren't going to grade higher?? >>
The price is irrelevant. I could care less about $1.85, or $50 or $150 in grading fees.
////////////////////////
Did they look like 8s and 9s when they were sent to PSA?
..........
The strict/liberal variations between graders may be making
it far too risky for sellers to say that any raw card is "NM/MT."
"About Near Mint" and "Excellent or Better" seems really the only
safe claims for sellers to make
<< <i>
<< <i>Im also not understanding something here.
Did you contact Ron before posting here? >>
Irrelevant.........does that change his opinion............... (facts) >>
?/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The fact that he did contact Ron prior to posting is relevant to the facts.......
<< <i>Yeah, I like a good fight and all but this doesn't quite make total sense. You didn't realize for yourself when the cards were in your hand that they weren't going to grade 8-9's? If you're mad at MrBurgundy for selling you over-graded cards then obviously you shouldn't have submitted them to PSA...otherwise...be mad at PSA. Seriously, you are obviously trying to make a board member look like a jackass so explain how you ended up with 6.5's from PSA. Did you ALSO think they were 8-9 when you looked at them? Hmmm >>
I think your missing the point here. I believe that the hope would be as active CU board members, we should hold the integrity of collecting higher than most on EBAY. When your told by a fellow board member that your buying cards in NM/MT condition and on the whole they grade out substantially lower than that condition, its worth mentioning. I don't think that he's trying to make Mr. Burgundy look like a jackass. I apprecaite the thread, it will certainly make me think twice about buying raw cards from this seller!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Im also not understanding something here.
Did you contact Ron before posting here? >>
Irrelevant.........does that change his opinion............... (facts) >>
?/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The fact that he did contact Ron prior to posting is relevant to the facts....... >>
No it isn't..................................how is it??????????????? It is what it is!
It sounds like Ron is overgrading his cards being sold to fellow board members which is not cool in my opinion.
I imagine there is another side to the story though so will be curious what Ron has to say.
<< <i>That's a great head's up Roger. Thanks.
It sounds like Ron is overgrading his cards being sold to fellow board members which is not cool in my opinion.
I imagine there is another side to the story though so will be curious what Ron has to say. >>
I agree.
Which brings me to this point. Why weren't the cards graded by Ron himself?
I would also be interested in hearing Ron's side.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that. >>
Wow again.
If you would be happy with that result then may I offer you a nice NMMT lot of opc cards.
<< <i>You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that. >>
I would suspect most people would NOT be happy if they bought that many cards and got that few 8's and 9's. If it was me that made that purchase and my cards came back graded that poorly, I would be pi$$ed!
<< <i>You said you wanted to get them all graded to prove a point. To me you are not trying to warn others but trying to embarass Ron. You got 8s and 9s in that submission BTW, I would suspect most people who buy raw off Ebay and got that percentage of 8's and 9's would be happy with the results. No one can gurantee a grade and someone with hobby experience should know that. >>
I am also under the assumption that someone who deals in as many raw cards as he does and gets graded and has his own raw card threads would be able to provide accurate grades to fellow board members.
//////////////////////////////////////
I never intentionally overgrade anything.
And, I am not surprised when other sellers do.
Buying/Selling raw cards is a risky sport.
hese are some of the best of the huge opc lot I sold a few months ago. 24 cards in all:
1972: Seaver IA, 307, 178, 220, 334, Piniella boyhood photo
1973: 520, 455, 655, 570, 583, 597, 502, 295, 640, 533, 544, 595, 318.
1974: 75
1975: 390, 470.
1977: Fred Lynn #163
1985: Rose #116.
Cards are NM/MT across the board, and some better. A few could go 9. Total raw value is $71, they're yours for $50 delivered.
Thanks,
Ron
There is no Ron's side of the story. He posted this thread. I purchased the cards, there was no discussion. He shipped them i got them graded, the grades popped. I sent him a pm asking him if we wanted to buy back the cards since he overgraded by an average of 2 grades. He didnt respond after 2+ days and i posted this thread.
The 72 seaver IA is obviously off-center and can't be expected to grade an 8.
I dealt with ron burgundy once with a good outcome. It's sad that this post had to happen.
<< <i>There is no Ron's side of the story >>
You're right Roger. I should have said "explaination"
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>This thread should not have happened. >>
Why should this thread not have happened? If it was some No Name seller that didnt post on these boards that noone knew, we all would be having a field day talking about this. This happens to be a well known board member, and now we shouldn't post a thread of this nature?
This thread absolutely should have happened. I want to know about anyone that over grades their RAW cards. That's what these boards are for. Exchange of information.
While it's obvious you did not get good grades from PSA, you still haven't answered the question "Did you think they would grade high when you sent them in?" My last submission to PSA==the grades I got were an invitation to resub the cards as they were all over the board, borderline bull crap. Just to add.... Joe Orlando himself could give me a pile of cards and tells me they are NM-MT and I see dinged corners, I'm not submitting them. You should have worked this out with Ron instead of wasting your money. This seems like a smear campaign. How much money did you spend on that sub? Scan the cards when you get them back. I'm going to buy the PSA 7 1964 Mantle that is 80/20 side to side from Levi for $475 just to show the card is overgraded to save people from sending cards to PSA and buying cards from 707--I think not. It doesn't make sense. JMO.
Mickey71
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
<< <i>And after thinking about it, stuck with those cards as he ended up being, I'd probably have submitted them also. >>
According to Roger's post, he PM'd Ron AFTER he had them graded, not after he received them in the mail from Ron. It sounds like Roger agreed with Ron's grading and submitted them. Now that he got them back from PSA with lower grades than THEY expected, he has buyer's remorse. You're not the first person to have buyer's remorse in this hobby.
<< <i>Roger you stated you gave him 2+ days to respond before posting this thread, what if Ron happened to be busy over the past few days and didnt have a chance to respond?........... >>
Ron was on as recently as today posting in a few threads. Can anyone here say that they have had a PM sit unopened for almost 3 days when they have been logged in on 1, 2, or all of those 3 days?
<< <i>
<< <i>Roger you stated you gave him 2+ days to respond before posting this thread, what if Ron happened to be busy over the past few days and didnt have a chance to respond?........... >>
Ron was on as recently as today posting in a few threads. Can anyone here say that they have had a PM sit unopened for almost 3 days when they have been logged in on 1, 2, or all of those 3 days? >>
I cannot say that. If he was on then he definately should have responded to the PM, I wasnt clear on that.