OK, so the stock market is tanking....
Dave99B
Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
real estate is tanking,
unemployment is rising,
100 yrs old banks are failing,
401K balances are imploding,
global financial markets are under immense stress......
I get all that....so why can't I find anything decent to buy on eBay!?!
Shouldn’t people be dumping coins to generate $$$ to buy trench coats, hats, canned goods, etc?
Dave
(I'm the guy on the left)
unemployment is rising,
100 yrs old banks are failing,
401K balances are imploding,
global financial markets are under immense stress......
I get all that....so why can't I find anything decent to buy on eBay!?!
Shouldn’t people be dumping coins to generate $$$ to buy trench coats, hats, canned goods, etc?
Dave
(I'm the guy on the left)
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
0
Comments
Try the pawn shops.
Brother, why would you want to buy any coin on e-bay? Why not call one of the better dealers and tell them what you are looking for? That's where the good stuff will appear.
Edit: Oh and I don't think you mean "OK," you mean "OT."
However, at the same time, I see our nest egg, the money that we have been counting on for retirement and for our children's educational expenses. I wonder if my parents or in-laws, retired and living on their own shrinking nest eggs, are going to need financial assistance down the road. These thoughts do not make me feel like shelling out a significant amount for the coin du jour, and my guess is that others, even those not at immediate risk of financial devastation, probably feel the same. This cannot be good for the coin market.
It's something I've been thinking about for a few months, actually -- made all the more front-and-center with the huge losses in so many retirement accounts.
A recurring theme in society and economics seems to be the unsustainability of so many post-WW2 economic blessings.
The immediate post-war era was an era of job security, top-notch benefits, affordable health care and first-rate defined benefit pensions. All of these helped lead to a less stressful existence with little need to keep an eye on Wall Street to keep your long, comfortable retirement dreams alive.
Obviously, all of these have been eroded in light of changing world economies and demographic shifts. And yet, looking back in history these concepts have never been so close to a "birthright" as they were, say, 50 years ago. And it's looking more like it never will be again.
Job security? Gone, at least in the private sector.
Health insurance? Getting chintzier and chintzier for employees and almost non-existent for retirees, especially those not yet retired or close to it.
Pensions? Anyone in the private sector under the age of about 40 can forget about those too, and many over 40 have already had their benefits "frozen" and replaced with their "savior," the 401K plan.
Social Security? I don't think too many people under the age of 50 is counting on much of that.
Taxes? The more debt we pile on, the worse each generation has it. And the less they get in return for their tax dollars.
The bottom line is that virtually every economic and demographic factor is conspiring to make the concept of "retiring" while healthy and able bodied seem to be more and more out of reach. Since the 1970s or so -- once foreign competition began cranking up -- once emerging markets began seriously developing (Japan) and other European war-ravaged nations had all their infrastructure back -- it just seems like on ALL these fronts each successive generation is destined to get a worse deal. And I wish I saw an end in sight to that, but I don't. Will history record there were three, maybe four, generations of Americans for whom retirement -- much less *early* retirement -- was an attainable middle-class concept?
In the end, I'm beginning to think this thing called "retirement" is little more than an historical aberration, created by an artificial boom in U.S. manufacturing and information sciences created by WW2. The aftermath of that war made the U.S. industrial infrastructure the only major economy not ravaged by war, leading to unsustainable prosperity.
I really hope I'm wrong and I do still expect to be able to retire -- and maybe even before my full SS eligibility at age 67 -- but as little as 3-4 years ago I was confident that I could be out by age 55. I have zero confidence in 55 and almost none in 60 today. There just seem to be way too many headwinds for younger generations to overcome -- at least in the private sector. And I suspect at some point, even the public sector's retirement security will fall victim to increasing public unrest over paying higher and higher taxes to protect someone else's retirement -- a retirement they no longer feel is possible for themselves.
He also sold his pride and joy, a coin he had sitting in his cabinet for months....a stunning 1916 SLQ.
I currently have 5 Barber halves on ebaY and you are bidding on a couple of them, so I take offense at this thread.
Don
Mine's paid for.
<<<unemployment is rising,>>>
Don't have a j-o-b and don't want one.
<<<100 yrs old banks are failing,>>>
I can't remember the name of mine, it's changed names so many times. Long as my checks don't bounce I don't care. My girlfriend's bank changed from Gulf Bank to RBC and her checks did start bouncing.
<<<401K balances are imploding,>>>
I did read the fine print that said "the value that you realize, if any, may be higher or lower and you may lose your arse" + I'm hunkered down for the long run. I would be buying but I spent all my spare cash buying low several months ago when I hunkered down. Wish I had waited.
<<<global financial markets are under immense stress......>>>
They'll be ok in a little while. Mine are still paying dividends.
<<<I get all that....so why can't I find anything decent to buy on eBay!?!>>>
Cause it costs too much to sell on eBay, it costs too much to get paid, it costs too much to ship the stuff, and all the buyers are crazy, rude, & demanding psychos and all the sellers have left in droves.
<< <i>It's my opinion that we are witnessing the end of middle class retirement as a realistic goal.
It's something I've been thinking about for a few months, actually -- made all the more front-and-center with the huge losses in so many retirement accounts.
A recurring theme in society and economics seems to be the unsustainability of so many post-WW2 economic blessings.
The immediate post-war era was an era of job security, top-notch benefits, affordable health care and first-rate defined benefit pensions. All of these helped lead to a less stressful existence with little need to keep an eye on Wall Street to keep your long, comfortable retirement dreams alive.
Obviously, all of these have been eroded in light of changing world economies and demographic shifts. And yet, looking back in history these concepts have never been so close to a "birthright" as they were, say, 50 years ago. And it's looking more like it never will be again.
Job security? Gone, at least in the private sector.
Health insurance? Getting chintzier and chintzier for employees and almost non-existent for retirees, especially those not yet retired or close to it.
Pensions? Anyone in the private sector under the age of about 40 can forget about those too, and many over 40 have already had their benefits "frozen" and replaced with their "savior," the 401K plan.
Social Security? I don't think too many people under the age of 50 is counting on much of that.
Taxes? The more debt we pile on, the worse each generation has it. And the less they get in return for their tax dollars.
The bottom line is that virtually every economic and demographic factor is conspiring to make the concept of "retiring" while healthy and able bodied seem to be more and more out of reach. Since the 1970s or so -- once foreign competition began cranking up -- once emerging markets began seriously developing (Japan) and other European war-ravaged nations had all their infrastructure back -- it just seems like on ALL these fronts each successive generation is destined to get a worse deal. And I wish I saw an end in sight to that, but I don't. Will history record there were three, maybe four, generations of Americans for whom retirement -- much less *early* retirement -- was an attainable middle-class concept?
In the end, I'm beginning to think this thing called "retirement" is little more than an historical aberration, created by an artificial boom in U.S. manufacturing and information sciences created by WW2. The aftermath of that war made the U.S. industrial infrastructure the only major economy not ravaged by war, leading to unsustainable prosperity.
I really hope I'm wrong and I do still expect to be able to retire -- and maybe even before my full SS eligibility at age 67 -- but as little as 3-4 years ago I was confident that I could be out by age 55. I have zero confidence in 55 and almost none in 60 today. There just seem to be way too many headwinds for younger generations to overcome -- at least in the private sector. And I suspect at some point, even the public sector's retirement security will fall victim to increasing public unrest over paying higher and higher taxes to protect someone else's retirement -- a retirement they no longer feel is possible for themselves. >>
man , you tell it like it is and it's a very dark picture
Opportunities abound.
<< <i>Coins are luxuries - not necessities! >>
Ahhh, common sense lifts it's head.
- Jim
The stock market is having a sale. View it not as a loss but as an opportunity. You can retire if you take advantage of the right things.
We don't know it is a bottom until it starts going back up again. No need to hurry.
I certainly don't want to prop up prices while folks on margin are still getting margin calls and selling in a panic. Let them complete their panic first.
<< <i>I'm not buying into this. Not yet. I'll wait.
We don't know it is a bottom until it starts going back up again. No need to hurry.
I certainly don't want to prop up prices while folks on margin are still getting margin calls and selling in a panic. Let them complete their panic first. >>
Agreed. There are two indicators which have historically been very accurate at calling that a bottom has NOT been reached. While they haven't been always right, they're usually reliable. They are:
(1) Virtually every intraday rally is very quickly snuffed out by a wave of selling turning all the indicators red;
(2) The last hour of trading turns into a bloodbath with regularity.
We are consistently seeing both of these in this market. There is no bottom yet.
a trillion bucks is a sheetload of money ; in fact ALL the credit card debt accumulated over the past decade in America comes to about a Trillion dollars-
that's 50 million people charging up their credit cards for ten years , running up a trillion dollar debt :
now compare that to the two trillion dollar loss of the stock market in only the past few days .......
<< <i>There is no bottom yet. >>
The market definately could go lower. The "bottom" will be a one day event, which few will be able to time. I am a buyer on the dips from here on out, as I did today. The fearful will not feel comfortable buying until the market rises 30%.
<< <i>The market definately could go lower. The "bottom" will be a one day event, which few will be able to time. >>
I agree, but usually the bottom doesn't hit at the very tail end of the trading day; a vicious last-hour selloff usually means more pain to come. That's no guarantee, but usually it's an intraday event on huge volume, then the panic sellers are all gone. From there it rallies and a bunch of sideline money rushes in. That's usually how most "capitulations" work when looking at their charts.
But anyway, to get back on topic, if I can manage to hold my job through this, I look forward to a buying spree of fire-sale stocks AND coins I can afford again.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I did not see this last week nearly as clearly as feel I see it now.
Unfortunately, it looks like I had better prepare for a worst case right now. Employment in 2009 is more questionable this week than it was last week.
<< <i>I'm not buying into this. Not yet. I'll wait.
We don't know it is a bottom until it starts going back up again. No need to hurry.
I certainly don't want to prop up prices while folks on margin are still getting margin calls and selling in a panic. Let them complete their panic first. >>
It is a matter of interpretation on when to get back in. I also am waiting.... the news today is calling this a 'cascading crash' which infers to me that it can be self feeding for a while yet. Good ' o W is supposed to be making a statement tomorrow morning. There is also some talk about freezing the market (close them) to try to interrupt the cycle. They may just have to let it go, and let it reach it's bargain bottom.
Stay tuned.
Yup
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think dealers will see more of the good stuff first.
<< <i>If your favorite store was having a sale and all your favorite items were half off, would you go buy them? Your answer is probably yes.
The stock market is having a sale. View it not as a loss but as an opportunity. You can retire if you take advantage of the right things. >>
Good advice if you have cash to invest and if you buy those "sale" items carefully. Never invest with borrowed money.
Oh, so *that's* why the Japanese are so happy-go-lucky. Their stocks have been on sale for 20 years, now!
will rebound. The only difference in todays market from markets in the past are the computer programs that start
selling off when the market hits a certain percentage..
Humans are not involved at that point. Yes they can step in and halt the selling. But it works both ways.
When the market starts a rebound and hits a certain percentage of increase. The computers will start a buy
position...
Even bears have to wake up sometime.... They can't hibernate forever....Unless you are in a NEED
position or you don't trust your previous 401K investment positions leave it alone.
Because once you re-allocate your investments to safe funds and the market rebounds. Then you have truly lost
in the market. Because your buy in will be at a higher position.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I currently have 5 Barber halves on ebaY and you are bidding on a couple of them, so I take offense at this thread.
BUSTED!
Dave
<< <i>Everything will be fine in 09. >>
I'll agree with you on that one brother. What remains is 2 1/2 months of carnage in 08.
And in the spirit of Latrell Sprewell, all the ultra weathy are wondering - How are we going to feed our families - we just lost millions. Even though they still have millions left.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>Oh, so *that's* why the Japanese are so happy-go-lucky. Their stocks have been on sale for 20 years, now! >>
Imagine how that would've stimulated the market, new bank growth, and real estate buying opportunities.
Even if people got their money and threw it in a different bank account with a low interest return; the bank would've invested the money.
Although I have to say, that economic stimulus check surely went to the 'mocket' in everyones case
All that said, I'm 21 and I can say with certainty in the near future will be my first major purchases of stocks because I, too, believe it's on sale. I hope I'll be able to purchase some sale items and be the guy that does retire early because of it.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>real estate is tanking,
unemployment is rising,
100 yrs old banks are failing,
401K balances are imploding,
global financial markets are under immense stress......
I get all that....so why can't I find anything decent to buy on eBay!?!
Shouldn’t people be dumping coins to generate $$$ to buy trench coats, hats, canned goods, etc? >>
What about people spending commems for face value? Would that be the true sign of a depression?
though it is at a "discounted" price it still ain't a bargain.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
There’s nothing good on eBay cause eBay is a joke.
I just sold a small pile of CC Morgs to a board dealer.
By the time eBay, PayPal, and the Post Office took their cut and some scammer did a credit card chargeback on me a month later on a $5,000 coin I figured it was faster, safer, and more profitable NOT to use eBay.
how many truly neat coins
a trillion dollars would buy?
Perhaps our Government should screw the
banks and spend a couple billion buying
rare coins. That would give the coin market
a boost.
Camelot
Noone can grasp a number this large...
Remember the $700,000,000,000 bailout number that was being bantied around a few weeks?
If one stacked $100 bills one on top of each other the stack of $700 B would be over 47 miles high.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
p.s. the entire country of Iceland is officially bankrupt.
If I feel like gambling I go to a casino.
I like that the price of oil has dropped as that is something I use.
If the value of my house drops I dont care as I will still live in it and have never used it as a piggy bank.
The banks have money to lend to people with good credit.
I dont see how injecting more money into the banking system is going to make people who dont currently have good credit get it. Unless the plan is to lend money again to people with less than good credit and that will only lead to the same thing happing again in the future.
<< <i>maybe the average person cannot grasp what a two trillion dollar loss means
Noone can grasp a number this large...
Remember the $700,000,000,000 bailout number that was being bantied around a few weeks?
If one stacked $100 bills one on top of each other the stack of $700 B would be over 47 miles high. >>
700 billion is a ton of money I agree ;
but it would not cover the paper loss of A SINGLE DAY when the DOW dipped 642 points and represented a 1.2 TRillion dollar loss !!
<< <i>If one stacked $100 bills one on top of each other the stack of $700 B would be over 47 miles high. >>
If this is true, we'd better start stacking immediately.
but it would not cover the paper loss of A SINGLE DAY when the DOW dipped 642 points and represented a 1.2 TRillion dollar loss !!
If you stacked up the notional value of all the derivatives in the world we could have 1000 consecutive days of 1.2 TRILLION dollar losses....mathematically speaking of course.
We would need a DOW of 642,000 to be able to match the size of the outstanding derivatives written.
roadrunner