What happened to the white thick, thick original skin Walkers?

stman

Before certification and a few years into it, my Wife (may she rest in peace) and I collected Walkers. We would see those white, thick skin original Walkers that looked
like a pearl. Most likely the newer folks in the hobby have never seen one. They are one of the most gorgeous looking coins IMO.

No doubt they have been dipped out in the name of higher grade=$$$$$. Such a shame. I haven't seen one in years, and I don't believe I've seen anybody post one on here.
So, does anybody have any? Please post it. I'll be checking my PM's, but I have a feeling there won't be any.

TomB

The MS65 coins were dipped in order to receive an MS66. However, I know exactly the surface that you are writing about and will still see one on occasion.

Broadstruck

The last I saw was a rattler 1934-P on ebay in a MS64 holder it did not sell as I recall. You may have struck on the reason why as the newer collectors in the last decade or more haven't really seen this type of skin before

pursuitofliberty

I haven't seen one in quite a while either ... but I do remember ... and I agree with you ... they are something to behold.

Hopefully enough of them reside in strong hands (without nimble dipping fingers) so at least a few have survived.

I have a couple that are close to qualifying (no pictures as of this time) but they are not Gem's ... more like decent Choice
coins, but they still have the skin. When the surfaces are Gem and that particular skin exists ... well, I wish I would have
afforded a few.

Hope someone posts one or two.

Shamika

Yep, they look(ed) like velvet.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

I know exactly the look your talking about.

They're gorgeous!

Broadstruck

Newer collectors may have dipped em all thinking it was a PVC

stman

I forget what year it was, but 65 Walkers were pushing 500.00. No doubt that's where most went for the 66. They had nice luster, the thick, thick white skin may have subdued a little bit. But I guess a lot folks want that blast look to their coins. Such a shame doctoring seems to be rewarded.

BlindedByEgo

All in the name of improvement. A shame, they are a thing of beauty.

stman

<< <i>Newer collectors may have dipped em all thinking it was a PVC >>



Ha ha. That, or they thought it was some kind of "haze" that needed to be dipped. I've actually seen a post, don't recall who, when or what....... the member here was asking advice about a white haze on the coin. I thought it was skin, but many fine members here gave the advice to "fix" it.

illini420

anyone have pics of what y'all are talking about??? some of us newbies have only seen the really shiny ones

Connecticoin

If I see and original skin Walker, I snap it up and hoard it! I still need to image most of them, but I have many gems that look like this (some with the subtle toning, some without), and I cherish each one of them:

21Walker

This one now resides in a PCGS MS65 holder





This one also now resides in a PCGS MS 64 holder





Rick

NHSBaseball

All three of the above are very nice looking coins. Shamika is right, they look like they are finished in satin or velvet. Thanks for posting them.

JJM

Ive always thought this was pretty tight,.....its resting in a Dansco now....

supertooth

stman----- Sent a PM

And to Broadstruck----I meant to reply to your post awhile ago. I do agree 100% that the 1918 coin is "much harder" to obtain in unmessed with VF--AU grades than is the 1918S.

And, I'd bet my socks that about 90% or more of all collectors today have really never collected truely "original skinned" MS Walkers. Most are sooooo educated to believe that everything must be blast white. They have been conditioned to think that way. Dip it to make it pretty and white. It is a shame in a way. Bob [supertooth]

Sunnywood

Unfortunately, Walkers have fallen prey to the same fate as Morgans. Most dealers like to promote and sell what they themselves can easily buy. After all, it isn't good for business if your customers only want to buy things that are hard to locate. Dealers found it easier to locate and sell "white" coins in quantity. So, over time, there evolved a dealer-led market for "white" silver coins. While other silver type had always been prized with beautiful toning, Morgans and Walkers were advertised and promoted as "blast white" as though that were the most desirable trait. Collectors were encouraged to assemble sets of these readily obtainable white widgets. This was also fed by the fact that a good percentage of Walkers and Morgans were still naturally untoned. However, the desire for blast white coins encouraged the creation of dipping mills. Even original pearly white thick-skinned coins were dipped to become blast white. This has happened in several waves over the last five decades. Unquestionably, the advent of the grading services brought a new wave of dipping, as the blast white coins are an easier upgrade if the surfaces are there. Originality became a sin, rarely rewarded by the services. This became further formalized and even more widespread with the creation of NCS.

What needs to change in order to stop this trend is for collectors to start learning to recognize and to place a higher value on original coins. My collection of toned Morgans was put together for precisely this reason (just read the introductory blurb on my Registry set). I wanted to prove to the collector base that it was not necessary to restrict oneself to dipped white widget Morgans, that it was also possible to put together an entire set of Morgans with originality and attractive color. I have long thought about doing the same with Walkers - assembling a set in which there is not one single "blast white" coin, no dipped and stripped, conserved, artificially whitened coins. Instead, I would seek thick-skinned original pearly ivory white coins, or coins with attractive album or envelope toning. A complete set of Walkers following these guidelines might not rank #1 on the Registry, because the coins would be selected under a broader set of criteria than merely slab grade. My Morgan set is only #6, yet I can go an entire year without finding one upgrade for that set among the thousands of Morgans auctioned annually. Of course, by "upgrade" I mean a better coin that meets my criteria, not just any coin with a higher slab grade.

This does not mean that I am in some way against certified coins. I like PCGS for many reasons, and every coin I own goes into a PCGS slab. I am still looking for technical quality and strike in addition to eye appeal, luster, originality, and color. So coins with high certified grades are certainly welcome and preferred - if they meet the other criteria. By the way, "luster" should not mean the blast white appearance of a freshly dipped coin. Luster is a more subtle concept, imparted by the metal flow lines on the surface. An original pearly white Walker can have fantastic luster. If you dip the coin, it may get brighter, but it does not have more "luster" by my definition. And of course, a coin that has been dipped too many times, or badly, loses its luster and becomes a dull milky white coin - impaired and highly undesirable, as far as I'm concerned.

Well, perhaps someday I shall get around to Walkers ...

Best,
Sunnywood

Connecticoin

Not gems here (I keep the gems and sell the 63s and 64s), but these have some thick skin as well:

(SPAM disclaimer -- I no longer own these)

airplanenut

Does this come close?

lcoopie

Would this appeal more to Sunnywood or RickO?


lighter in hand

Sunnywood

airplanenut's coin looks to have the pearly skin we are talking about, although as I always say, you can't really tell from images. lcoopie's coin has nice toning, but I definitely cannot judge the luster or the skin from the image. Mike Printz has a couple of Walkers on the Whitlow website that are mostly untoned, but that I would call completely original (I just happened to be looking at them; this is not a promo, I have no interest in the coins).

airplanenut

<< <i>airplanenut's coin looks to have the pearly skin we are talking about, although as I always say, you can't really tell from images. lcoopie's coin has nice toning, but I definitely cannot judge the luster or the skin from the image. Mike Printz has a couple of Walkers on the Whitlow website that are mostly untoned, but that I would call completely original (I just happened to be looking at them; this is not a promo, I have no interest in the coins). >>

In hand, the piece is just slightly completely off-white, except in the peripheral areas that are more colorful.

illini420

This is the only MS Walker I have, I think it has some original skin on it, just not sure it's what is referenced in the OP...

robec

I don't know if these two meet your criteria. More than likely dipped at one time, but still loaded with luster.

fc

i am not sure, i included, if the majority here understands what the
OP is referring to....

the coins pictured in this thread do not strike me as what he was
talking about... as in a perfect match.

but i can be wrong. i await a pic of a walker that the OP agrees
perfectly with.

coinsarefun

I'm not sure if this matches your description,
but I was very lucky to buy a few years back an entire 1944 mint set(year set)

It was placed in a cardboard display holder probably for a very long time, if not the
entire time. I showed it to NGC & PCGS and David Hall seamed very impressed with the Walkers.
I decided to slab the entire set and still have the original cardboard holder and kept all of them
together.

I must say that they have a very thick almost silky skin.

Anyways, many have probably seen me post them.

The Washington's and Merc's have the same thick skin, some are almost translucent.


Stefanie

HighRelief

stman

Thanks for posting those Walkers folks. Mike Printz showed me an image a while back that has what I was referring to. Perhaps if he were to see this thread he will post it, if he still has it. White thick, and I mean thick skin that looks like a pearl. I like toned Walkers as well. And with a bit of searching they can be found. But the ones I am mentioning are tough, tough, even in common dates.

50cents

Can thick original skin Walkers have a blue tint?

Broadstruck

<< <i>Can thick original skin Walkers have a blue tint?

>>



Finally... this is the first example I see here that has the look as described in the OP

Walkerguy21D

I think the walkers posted by Robec are the antithesis of what the OP is referring to. Yes, the coins are blazing and I own many like that (I'll even admit that I made some like that, via MS70, to remove PVC haze, etc), just not wholly original.
Stefanie - those walkers are dynamite! I have seen a lot of walkers over the years, and very few look like that. They are not rare dates, but the condition they are in is certainly rare.

Broadstruck

<< <i>I think the walkers posted by Robec are the antithesis of what the OP is referring to. Yes, the coins are blazing and I own many like that (I'll even admit that I made some like that, via MS70, to remove PVC haze, etc), just not wholly original.
Stefanie - those walkers are dynamite! I have seen a lot of walkers over the years, and very few look like that. They are not rare dates, but the condition they are in is certainly rare. >>



No offense Walkerguy21D but the examples posted by Robec have most likely seen the dipping jar based on the images

These original pearl skinned WLH's are as tough to find as cellophane toned proofs as they too have all been dipped to bring out the cameo aspect

pendragon1998

<< <i>Not gems here (I keep the gems and sell the 63s and 64s), but these have some thick skin as well:

>>




I really like this one - I want a 1943-P in MS65 with this sort of skin on it and a nice thumb.

oreville

This is what stman is probably looking for:
(Note how the Eagle's feathers are encrusted with the thick white mint skin often seen in heavily encrusted DMPL dollars.

Interestingly enough, the softer and late die struck walkers have more of the creamy white mint skin as opposed to the satiny look that many here have posted thinking that was what stman was probably looking for.

This is a 1946-S walker in a green tag PCGS MS-66 holder.

Fortunately, many MS-63 and MS-64 walkers with very soft strikes also have this lovely creamy/velvety white mint skin. They are not expensive and when found in slabs should NOT be cracked out or dipped. More and more of them are starting to tone. Leave them alone. They know how to take care of themselves. Also the obverses of these walkers tend to have less of this lovely white. thick original mint skin than the reverses.
Why? Much more field areas on the obverse.

LindeDad

This is about as close as I can find in my coins. Have a couple of quarters that show the white toning better.

Sunnywood

<< <i>I think the walkers posted by Robec are the antithesis of what the OP is referring to. [ .... ]

Stefanie - those walkers are dynamite! I have seen a lot of walkers over the years, and very few look like that. They are not rare dates, but the condition they are in is certainly rare. >>

CarlWohlforth

<<No offense Walkerguy21D but the examples posted by Robec have most likely seen the dipping jar based on the images>>

Why would Walkerguy21D take offense when you agree exactly with what he was saying? He was saying, in other words, Robec's coins have been dipped.

I too liked the toning on Stephanie's Halves.

I have several PCGS MS 65 Walkers. Unfortunately none have the skin that is the subject of this post.

Broadstruck

<< <i><<No offense Walkerguy21D but the examples posted by Robec have most likely seen the dipping jar based on the images>>

Why would Walkerguy21D take offense when you agree exactly with what he was saying? He was saying, in other words, Robec's coins have been dipped. >>



I guess I got Lost in Translation

stman

OK, I have a high grade Walker where the image is not so great from years ago, that I was stupid enough to sell. Has a bit of color on the periph, but thick skin with a blue cast to it. I'll try my best to find it right now.

Shamika

<< <i>This is what stman is probably looking for:
(Note how the Eagle's feathers are encrusted with the thick white mint skin often seen in heavily encrusted DMPL dollars.

>>





There you go. Much better.

oreville

This is my 1940 walker in a PCGS MS-68 old green tag holder. It has an awesome fully struck reverse. As such it was probably an early die strike and therefor it was more satiny than with the creamy thick white original skin. There is a HUGE difference. Most of the pics show here so far are of the satiny version. Most of them are very very lovely but are not of the creamy thick white luster skin version.

This coin was recently "stickered" but it does NOT have very much of the thick white skin I believe the OP was talking about. It is mostly satiny instead.

Also toned walkers make it very difficult to determine whether the underlying original surfaces were satiny or creamy white unless you examine it in person under a stronger light than usual.

relicsncoins

Here is mine, it fits the bill pretty nicely.

It's raw, actually it was graded by anacs in the early 80's with a certificate 65/65.

stman

This coin I bought from Legend years ago, and is their image. I'd rather have one completely white though. The image isn't so great and doesn't show the skin as thick as it is in person but it's all I got....... It's actually pearly white, with better color on the periph than the image suggests.

oreville

Relics:

Yours is of the satiny version. It does not qualify. However, yours appears to be a slam dunk MS-66 and very, very close to an MS-67.

Wow. look at the thumb!

NHSBaseball

This thread has some of the most attractive Walkers I've ever seen. I am not entirely sure what to look for vis-a-vis the difference between "satiny" and "pearly", but I like the many coins posted that have a very un-messed with appearance.

oreville

NHSBaseball:

This may help:


Satiny = brilliant
Pearly = Creamy = Ice = white

Barberman55

1917 Walking Liberty half, PCGS MS-64 OGH

50cents

Walkernut

Of all my walkers this 1941-d ms-65 comes closest to an original skinned coin. A friend of mine has us all beat in that department with his set that can be found at coin collection

Boom

For the OP, I offer one I have on file in which the first is taken with 2 real inexpensive clear 40 Watt bulbs in tandem
backed away from the coin equidistantly.
The second attempt is under the same condition w the same lighting but tweaking the White Balance jus a tad! I hope you like it. I''ll try again later with a nice raw piece, every bit as pretty!


AND, the same coin adjusted just a pinch.


Agreed - without doubt, one of the most beautiful US coin designs ever minted!

50cents

<< <i>Of all my walkers this 1941-d ms-65 comes closest to an original skinned coin. A friend of mine has us all beat in that department with his set that can be found at coin collection
>>



I agree Gary, Supertooth has a great looking set but you also have a set or sets that I have looked at quite often.

One of Gary's Walker Registry Sets