Jumping ahead here ( Without reading everything ) I appreaciate Oxy at least recognizing somewhat why I chose Brady- I would be lying if I said I wasnt bias. That being said it is true that I should wait until his career is over- which I believe he will bring the Patriots to another Super Bowl if not at least a few AFC championship games. As far as last years Super Bowl loss I TRULY believe ( Without bias ) that nobody QB'ing the Patriots that game would have done any better- the Offensive line got man handled by the Giants hands down- that is one reason in itself why you NEED to have a team around you to be succesful- I think as far as most of these great QB's are concerned the amount of talent around them all is pretty well rounded overall, as far as offensive weapons goes I think Brady won his Super Bowls with the least amount of talent at the skill positions which is why I give him the nod so far.
Otto Graham being mentioned is fair but his teams were pretty stacked compared to the other teams in his era ( other than the Rams and Lions )
Jim Brown was a man amongst boys and was quite possibly the best player to have ever dominated amongst his piers like he did, but put him in todays game and NO WAY would he be as dominant, Im not saying he wouldnt be great but not AS GREAT as he was! Trust me these 280 llb Linebackers with speed would not have been brushed aside like the 200 llb backers were back in the day.
These "Best Player" ever lists are alot of fun but there are to many variables involved to make anyones argument 100% right or wrong.
<< <i>Jumping ahead here ( Without reading everything ) I appreaciate Oxy at least recognizing somewhat why I chose Brady- I would be lying if I said I wasnt bias. That being said it is true that I should wait until his career is over- which I believe he will bring the Patriots to another Super Bowl if not at least a few AFC championship games. As far as last years Super Bowl loss I TRULY believe ( Without bias ) that nobody QB'ing the Patriots that game would have done any better- the Offensive line got man handled by the Giants hands down- that is one reason in itself why you NEED to have a team around you to be succesful- I think as far as most of these great QB's are concerned the amount of talent around them all is pretty well rounded overall, as far as offensive weapons goes I think Brady won his Super Bowls with the least amount of talent at the skill positions which is why I give him the nod so far.
Otto Graham being mentioned is fair but his teams were pretty stacked compared to the other teams in his era ( other than the Rams and Lions )
Jim Brown was a man amongst boys and was quite possibly the best player to have ever dominated amongst his piers like he did, but put him in todays game and NO WAY would he be as dominant, Im not saying he wouldnt be great but not AS GREAT as he was! Trust me these 280 llb Linebackers with speed would not have been brushed aside like the 200 llb backers were back in the day.
These "Best Player" ever lists are alot of fun but there are to many variables involved to make anyones argument 100% right or wrong. >>
Perkdog,
I agree Brady is far from done. I believe we will see him in more Superbowls. As far as last years Superbowl, I am truly unsure. I would agree that the Patriots offense had a bad game. But by the same token, Brady missed some open targets as well. I have often wondered if he was injured more than we knew.
As far as him winning with less talented teams, as a Raider fan, I am not even going to touch that. (Partial reason for the earlier head smack) Even since the 2000 season the NFL has been a weekly symposium of bizarre and head shaking events.
Jim Brown Greatest running back of all time Jerry Rice Greatest receiver and Greatest football player of all time Joe Montana Johnny Unitas Lawrence Taylor Greatest linebacker of all time.. he changed the way linebackers played the game.
Of couse this is only one man's opinion.
It's all apples and oranges. You could throw in Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, Marion Motley and a dozen others from bygone eras and still be right.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Nice to see the original LT get a lot of respect. I never have brought myself to call LaDamian (msp) LT. A step above Reggie White or Junior Seau in my opinion, but just a small step. I guess to round off (at 5) I will finish my defense list with Dick Butkus and Deon Sanders (but not the younger afraid to get dirty Sanders)
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
It not just about numbers. As already stated here, there are plenty stat QB's. What Seperates the Greats Like Unitas, Starr, Staubach and Montana from the others is their Field Presense. Their ability to turn a team into a dynasty. The ability to command and lead a team in the big games. The historical plays that they have etched into NFL folklore.
Unitas gives to Amache Starr sneaks in the ice Bowl Staubach Hail Mary Montana The Catch and The Drive
The Games Greatest Field Generals are Not defined as much by numbers as they are by deeds. They are the MAIN ingredient that can turn a team into a dynasty.
One other point: I tuely think that the success Steve Young did have was a direct result of playing behind Montana and learning from one of the Games greatest Field Generals. While Young had some great stat years and finally got that Super Bowl Monkey off his back. A Dynasty he was not. I will say I will never forget that incredible "Stumbling" run he made against the Vikings. But he will never escape the shadow of Montana, and there is an obvious reason for that.
Oh... Did I mention I hate that sob Montana for "The Catch" against my Cowboys. Everytime I see it replayed I just what to see "Too Tall" Jones put a bone crushing sack on him. Unfortunately it always turns out the same way.
I am not saying it is just about the numbers, but wasn't it you (don't want to look back to see who it was) that said it was "foolish" to compare them. The fact is the two are very comparable and I do not think Young is the best of all-time, which means, Montana isn't either.
Here is something else to think about, (hope I haven't offended anyone), Montana never received an MVP award. Meaning in no one year was Montana considered the best player.
Thought I would comment on a couple of the other QB's.
Terry Bradshaw - "good but too erratic early in his career to win early." True, this was because Bradshaw doesn't understand football. He even noted on FOX once that he did not read formations, rather just threw it to the open guy. The guy seems lost all the time. I guess whatever works. I do like his interviews and humor.
Ken Stabler - Great quarterback, but not a HOF and should not be. I would compare him talent wise best to Jeff Garcia. Would not mind him leading my team. But not likely to be the #1 QB of the year and doesn't even really belong in the discussion.
PS: Young has "The Catch II."
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Comments
Otto Graham being mentioned is fair but his teams were pretty stacked compared to the other teams in his era ( other than the Rams and Lions )
Jim Brown was a man amongst boys and was quite possibly the best player to have ever dominated amongst his piers like he did, but put him in todays game and NO WAY would he be as dominant, Im not saying he wouldnt be great but not AS GREAT as he was! Trust me these 280 llb Linebackers with speed would not have been brushed aside like the 200 llb backers were back in the day.
These "Best Player" ever lists are alot of fun but there are to many variables involved to make anyones argument 100% right or wrong.
<< <i>Jumping ahead here ( Without reading everything ) I appreaciate Oxy at least recognizing somewhat why I chose Brady- I would be lying if I said I wasnt bias. That being said it is true that I should wait until his career is over- which I believe he will bring the Patriots to another Super Bowl if not at least a few AFC championship games. As far as last years Super Bowl loss I TRULY believe ( Without bias ) that nobody QB'ing the Patriots that game would have done any better- the Offensive line got man handled by the Giants hands down- that is one reason in itself why you NEED to have a team around you to be succesful- I think as far as most of these great QB's are concerned the amount of talent around them all is pretty well rounded overall, as far as offensive weapons goes I think Brady won his Super Bowls with the least amount of talent at the skill positions which is why I give him the nod so far.
Otto Graham being mentioned is fair but his teams were pretty stacked compared to the other teams in his era ( other than the Rams and Lions )
Jim Brown was a man amongst boys and was quite possibly the best player to have ever dominated amongst his piers like he did, but put him in todays game and NO WAY would he be as dominant, Im not saying he wouldnt be great but not AS GREAT as he was! Trust me these 280 llb Linebackers with speed would not have been brushed aside like the 200 llb backers were back in the day.
These "Best Player" ever lists are alot of fun but there are to many variables involved to make anyones argument 100% right or wrong. >>
Perkdog,
I agree Brady is far from done. I believe we will see him in more Superbowls. As far as last years Superbowl, I am truly unsure. I would agree that the Patriots offense had a bad game. But by the same token, Brady missed some open targets as well. I have often wondered if he was injured more than we knew.
As far as him winning with less talented teams, as a Raider fan, I am not even going to touch that. (Partial reason for the earlier head smack)
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
Jerry Rice Greatest receiver and Greatest football player of all time
Joe Montana
Johnny Unitas
Lawrence Taylor Greatest linebacker of all time.. he changed the way linebackers played the game.
Of couse this is only one man's opinion.
It's all apples and oranges. You could throw in Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, Marion Motley and a dozen others from bygone eras and still be right.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Unitas gives to Amache
Starr sneaks in the ice Bowl
Staubach Hail Mary
Montana The Catch and The Drive
The Games Greatest Field Generals are Not defined as much by numbers as they are by deeds. They are the MAIN ingredient that can turn
a team into a dynasty.
Montana..........Dynasty
Bradshaw........Dynasty
Aikman.............Dynasty
Brady...............Dynasty
Starr................Dynasty
Staubach.........Dynasty
Unitas..............Dynasty
Graham............Dynasty
One other point: I tuely think that the success Steve Young did have was a direct result of playing behind Montana and learning from one
of the Games greatest Field Generals. While Young had some great stat years and finally got that Super Bowl Monkey off his back.
A Dynasty he was not.
I will say I will never forget that incredible "Stumbling" run he made against the Vikings. But he will never escape the shadow of Montana,
and there is an obvious reason for that.
Oh... Did I mention I hate that sob Montana for "The Catch" against my Cowboys. Everytime I see it replayed I just what to see
"Too Tall" Jones put a bone crushing sack on him. Unfortunately it always turns out the same way.
Here is something else to think about, (hope I haven't offended anyone), Montana never received an MVP award. Meaning in no one year was Montana considered the best player.
Thought I would comment on a couple of the other QB's.
Terry Bradshaw - "good but too erratic early in his career to win early." True, this was because Bradshaw doesn't understand football. He even noted on FOX once that he did not read formations, rather just threw it to the open guy. The guy seems lost all the time. I guess whatever works. I do like his interviews and humor.
Ken Stabler - Great quarterback, but not a HOF and should not be. I would compare him talent wise best to Jeff Garcia. Would not mind him leading my team. But not likely to be the #1 QB of the year and doesn't even really belong in the discussion.
PS: Young has "The Catch II."
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.