Thursday at Long Beach; Glad I Went
Elcontador
Posts: 7,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
While I found a number of coins I liked, and two I wanted to buy, I left empty handed because I thought the prices for these coins were excessive.
There was quite a bit of mid grade Unc. material (chiefly MS 63 & 4) re Seated and Barber coinage. Some Later dated Large and Half Cents were available in these grades, usually in BN. Everyone on the planet seemed to selling Commems. Several dealers had a large number of Capped Bust Halves in AU to MS 63. I didn't see a single CBH in 5 on the floor, and no slabbed early copper which appealed to me. I did not pay any attention to the plethora of Morgans, Walkers and various gold, as I don't collect these coins.
The following are my observations / opinions:
1) I looked at a number of MS 66 Liberty Nickels and other coins of Barber vintage in the same grade. It appears that the grading services are letting an increasing number of coins into 6 holders which in my opinion have an excessive number of contact marks on their surfaces.
These 6s have nice eye appeal. Some are nicely toned, and some are dipped. Re the latter, you can see tracs of dip residue if you look at the coin closely. Might add that I thought all of these dipped coins had attractive eye appeal. The offending contact marks are either too many small ones on Miss Liberty's face or neck, or one large contact mark in a grade sensitive area of the coin. Imo, an eye-catching contact mark in a grade sensitive area of a coin (ie., in back of Miss Liberty's mouth) should prevent it from being in a 6 holder. A light contact mark or two on both the obverse & reverse should be all you see on these coins.
Bottom line, imo, more coins which are labeled as supergrade ARE OVERGRADED.
2) Related to 1), a good reason for going to a show -- whether or not you plan on actually buying anything -- is to see how the grading services are grading coins which interest you.
3) There is still nice material being bought and sold. I saw far more attractive coins this time around than I did at the last Long Beach Show. Kathleen Duncan's 06 S Barber Half in PC 5 in itself made the trip to Long Beach worthwhile. It is one of the nicest Barber Halves in 5 I've ever seen. If I didn't already have an attractive 05 O in 5, I would have bought this coin. The 06 S has original skin and attractive toning. Not a mark on it, either. It's in a 5 holder because believe PC didn't deem the luster to be booming enough to be in a 6 holder.
4) One dealer I know was kind enough to show me new purchases. Thank you for the consideration.
5) A number of dealers are still pricing average material as if it is PQ. Some things never change. Know who they are and avoid them.
6) Buying nice material. This is tough. You need to keep an eye on all major auctions. Most of this stuff comes from auctions, and while Heritage imo is by far the best run organization, the other auction houses do seem to get their share of nice coins. Some people continue to pay outrageous prices for nice material.
Once a coin like this gets to a dealer, it gets marked up even more, which means the price is now prohibitive. Unless you're TDN, Tahoe Dale, or Sunnywood, and know that if you don't buy this particular coin now, you won't see another one for 10 years, I'd tell you to wait. I have seen coins like this sit in dealer cases for months, in several situations, nearly a year. These coins either wind up at auctions with high reserves (where they don't sell), get discretely resold to other dealers at reduced prices months later, or else some pendejo actually sells his first born to buy them.
The reason I did not buy either of the two coins which I liked, was I wasn't about to pay $4,000 for what was maybe a $2,800 or $3,000 coin, max. Another coin was offered to me at $8K, when imo it may have been a $6K coin max which was overbought and then consigned to a dealer. I probably won't see coins like these two again for several years or more, but that's okay. A coin is a discretionary purchase, and either I get it at my price, or else I don't buy it.
6) Stickers - I saw quite a few of them. All green; have not yet seen a gold one. Like the grading of coins, they represent the opinion of experts re the quality of a coin, though in this case on the continnum of a coin's particular grade. Like with pre-stickered coins, I agree with their opinions some of the time, and disagree with them on other occasions.
My suggestion - learn to grade the coins yourself and form your own opinons. Get a second set of eyes to check out an expensive purchase before you buy in any case. I either like a coin or I don't like it. I don't care what grade is on the holder or whether or not it has a sticker. If I like a coin, I'll discuss price. If I don't like it, I don't want it, period.
7) Miscellaneous - It was good to see forum members JOM, Tom Killian, Cape and Truthteller. Laura even smiled at me. This surprised me, because I've gotten accustomed to her scowl over the years.
There was quite a bit of mid grade Unc. material (chiefly MS 63 & 4) re Seated and Barber coinage. Some Later dated Large and Half Cents were available in these grades, usually in BN. Everyone on the planet seemed to selling Commems. Several dealers had a large number of Capped Bust Halves in AU to MS 63. I didn't see a single CBH in 5 on the floor, and no slabbed early copper which appealed to me. I did not pay any attention to the plethora of Morgans, Walkers and various gold, as I don't collect these coins.
The following are my observations / opinions:
1) I looked at a number of MS 66 Liberty Nickels and other coins of Barber vintage in the same grade. It appears that the grading services are letting an increasing number of coins into 6 holders which in my opinion have an excessive number of contact marks on their surfaces.
These 6s have nice eye appeal. Some are nicely toned, and some are dipped. Re the latter, you can see tracs of dip residue if you look at the coin closely. Might add that I thought all of these dipped coins had attractive eye appeal. The offending contact marks are either too many small ones on Miss Liberty's face or neck, or one large contact mark in a grade sensitive area of the coin. Imo, an eye-catching contact mark in a grade sensitive area of a coin (ie., in back of Miss Liberty's mouth) should prevent it from being in a 6 holder. A light contact mark or two on both the obverse & reverse should be all you see on these coins.
Bottom line, imo, more coins which are labeled as supergrade ARE OVERGRADED.
2) Related to 1), a good reason for going to a show -- whether or not you plan on actually buying anything -- is to see how the grading services are grading coins which interest you.
3) There is still nice material being bought and sold. I saw far more attractive coins this time around than I did at the last Long Beach Show. Kathleen Duncan's 06 S Barber Half in PC 5 in itself made the trip to Long Beach worthwhile. It is one of the nicest Barber Halves in 5 I've ever seen. If I didn't already have an attractive 05 O in 5, I would have bought this coin. The 06 S has original skin and attractive toning. Not a mark on it, either. It's in a 5 holder because believe PC didn't deem the luster to be booming enough to be in a 6 holder.
4) One dealer I know was kind enough to show me new purchases. Thank you for the consideration.
5) A number of dealers are still pricing average material as if it is PQ. Some things never change. Know who they are and avoid them.
6) Buying nice material. This is tough. You need to keep an eye on all major auctions. Most of this stuff comes from auctions, and while Heritage imo is by far the best run organization, the other auction houses do seem to get their share of nice coins. Some people continue to pay outrageous prices for nice material.
Once a coin like this gets to a dealer, it gets marked up even more, which means the price is now prohibitive. Unless you're TDN, Tahoe Dale, or Sunnywood, and know that if you don't buy this particular coin now, you won't see another one for 10 years, I'd tell you to wait. I have seen coins like this sit in dealer cases for months, in several situations, nearly a year. These coins either wind up at auctions with high reserves (where they don't sell), get discretely resold to other dealers at reduced prices months later, or else some pendejo actually sells his first born to buy them.
The reason I did not buy either of the two coins which I liked, was I wasn't about to pay $4,000 for what was maybe a $2,800 or $3,000 coin, max. Another coin was offered to me at $8K, when imo it may have been a $6K coin max which was overbought and then consigned to a dealer. I probably won't see coins like these two again for several years or more, but that's okay. A coin is a discretionary purchase, and either I get it at my price, or else I don't buy it.
6) Stickers - I saw quite a few of them. All green; have not yet seen a gold one. Like the grading of coins, they represent the opinion of experts re the quality of a coin, though in this case on the continnum of a coin's particular grade. Like with pre-stickered coins, I agree with their opinions some of the time, and disagree with them on other occasions.
My suggestion - learn to grade the coins yourself and form your own opinons. Get a second set of eyes to check out an expensive purchase before you buy in any case. I either like a coin or I don't like it. I don't care what grade is on the holder or whether or not it has a sticker. If I like a coin, I'll discuss price. If I don't like it, I don't want it, period.
7) Miscellaneous - It was good to see forum members JOM, Tom Killian, Cape and Truthteller. Laura even smiled at me. This surprised me, because I've gotten accustomed to her scowl over the years.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste,
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
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Comments
<< <i>6) Stickers - I saw quite a few of them. All green; have not yet seen a gold one. Like the grading of coins, they represent the opinion of experts re the quality of a coin, though in this case on the continnum of a coin's particular grade. Like with pre-stickered coins, I agree with their opinions some of the time, and disagree with them on other occasions. >>
I think the gold sticker is an urban legend?
<< <i>1) I looked at a number of MS 66 Liberty Nickels and other coins of Barber vintage in the same grade. It appears that the grading services are letting an increasing number of coins into 6 holders which in my opinion have an excessive number of contact marks on their surfaces. These 6s have nice eye appeal. Some are nicely toned, and some are dipped. >>
If the stickering service would exclude dipped coins from getting a sticker - then it really would be worthwhile, IMHO.
<< <i>
<< <i>6) Stickers - I saw quite a few of them. All green; have not yet seen a gold one. Like the grading of coins, they represent the opinion of experts re the quality of a coin, though in this case on the continnum of a coin's particular grade. Like with pre-stickered coins, I agree with their opinions some of the time, and disagree with them on other occasions. >>
I think the gold sticker is an urban legend?
There was a capped bust half dime in MS-61 in a rattler holder on last week's Teletrade auction that had a gold sticker. I would post it but I can't access TT from my work computer- but a quick search will show that the gold sticker does indeed exist---.
-Randy Newman
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thanks for taking the time.
<< <i>I think you were being a little conservative to say that some coins may sit in inventory for "months or a year" when in most cases it is "years". I guess some dealers would rather keep a coin than sell it for what they paid or less. >>
What is the difference between holding one coin for a year and making $1,000 or buying and selling ten coins in a year at $100 profit each? As long as the dealer believes in the coin and its value, he should just hold it.
<< <i>Laura even smiled at me. This surprised me, because I've gotten accustomed to her scowl over the years. >>
Great Show Report Elcontador!
Appreciate your view(s).. Thanks!
I really think a lot of dealers do not understand the impact inventory carrying costs can have on their bottom line...Thanks for the great report!!
K
edited to add the thanks!
I too saw the Barber Half at Pinnacle. Very nice.
I also saw some nice coins but all were priced above what I wanted to pay. One in particular had been with the dealer at the same price since at least the Feb show. He wanted 3.5X bid for the coin. I love the coin but not at that price. However, it is the dealers prerogative to sell any of his coins as he sees fit. I don't whine about it because that's just the way it works. Dealers need to find just that right buyer...that's just business.
jom
Hate to say it but...I thought the pic was in bad taste.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.