Super nice bump for silver today
rah1959
Posts: 964 ✭
The nice bump upwards of silver today made me feel great concerning the many ounces I was able to acquired in silver the last 2 weeks.....at what may be the bottom? 
Good feelings can be fleeting though when dealing with silver (ie rollercoaster ride).....but for today..."I FEEL GOOD!"
RAH1959
Good feelings can be fleeting though when dealing with silver (ie rollercoaster ride).....but for today..."I FEEL GOOD!"
RAH1959
0
Comments
I knew it would happen.
Now we need Congress to end all paper metals.
They MUST be put to death quickly and severe penalties(jail time) to those involved at the upper levels for their actions.
It has to end for this economy to start the rebuilding cycle in a Constitutional manner.
No more manipulation. We know who the perpetrators were. Penalties should be paid in the form of damages until they are wiped out.
Bankers need not reply. You know who you are.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
rodrunner
<< <i>The bottom could well be behind us. >>
I am not so sure.
As people here and others predicted some more institutions failed which
caused investors to get into worry wart panic mode. They fled to PMs
which just a few days earlier were falling consistently. For now gold
and silver have their glow back but for how long? If it requires large
companies to fail for people to recognize gold as a safe haven/possible
investment what will happen when the news cycle is quiet for the
next few months?
As stocks bottom out, which are the bread and butter of most investors,
the P/E ratios will look more interesting. They darn well know
that gold and silver pay no dividends. It costs money to store it and
it has to be protected. Long term the stock market has out performed
it. How long will these finicky investors hang onto their PMs or paper
related to PMs?
I notice how people say the paper funds, SLV and GLD, are instruments
used to manipulate the price. But oh, only when it goes down!! When
it goes up, well, it is as predicted and SLV and GLD are our friends.
Once again manipulation was derided as the reason gold and silver
have fallen but when news comes out that miners will start to act
like OPEC and restrict the flow of the metal.. nary a peep of manipulation
is heard from the gold bugs. This is good manipulation!
It is a natural cycle on Wall Street for companies to fail and fail in spectacular ways.
There is quite a few companies who are smaller, smarter, and savy
enough to take their place.
As the fed injects cash into the system massive amounts of wealth
are being destroyed at the same time. Ask a shareholder who had
stock in one of these companies now in the toilet.
Right now everyone can see why gold/silver is good. After all it just
had its best day in a long time. It is so easy to forget the last month
and how the trend has been down since gold was at 1000.
I say this is a natural cycle of the markets. People did not cry like this
when it was tech stocks bursting.. but with banks it is somehow different?
Other smarter players in the arena will fill the gaps and life
will go on. I imagine the stock magazines in a few years time will be
full of investors who made good money picking out the strongest
banks while everyone was in panic mode while gold owners will hopefully
made some money or at least broke even?
rambling here. may edit my post. just wanted to get some thoughts
out.
<< <i>I'm looking for any signs of all those $6-$9 bottom silver callers. Anyone?
rodrunner >>
What happened to the grand conspiracy to keep down PM prices? Did it take the day off?
2 more days like today and gold will be back over $1,000. Will it really matter that we went down to $740 first (well, other than fleecing the wallets of honest investors and giving it to the banks for safekeeping)? Amazing that it's now apparently possible to reverse a month of FED work in just a couple of days. Things are that critical now as Lehman's nasty hedges are being dissected.
Once again manipulation was derided as the reason gold and silver
have fallen but when news comes out that miners will start to act
like OPEC and restrict the flow of the metal.. nary a peep of manipulation
is heard from the gold bugs. This is good manipulation!
This is funny. The entire capitalization of the gold miners = McDonalds or some other large Fortune 500 company. It's apparent they couldn't manipulate anything. Miners have restricted the flow of metal at times, just like real life manufacturers and producers do. But when banks and hedge funds step in to affect that production (present or future) for immediate gain, that is indeed manipulation of the worst sort. Hedge funds and banks can kill companies and they do it just for profit. Just ask Bear Stearns. Gold miners backing off their production when they are losing money is survival, not manipulation. Companies like Goldcorp would rather stockpile gold for weeks then sell into a distressed market. That's good business, not manipulation.
roadrunner
<$600 gold is about right.
I SHORTED more GLD today. Position is still way green.
I will SHORT more SLV, if it pops good tomorrow. Position is still waaaaayyyyy green.
.............
On the bright-side for those who rode silver down from $21, there was VERY
little SHORT-covering in SLV today.
There was some - but NOT a whole bunch - SHORT covering in GLD.
MUCH of the buying in both was money from the new round of fish.
....................
I have an exit strategy. LONGs should develop one.
How much did you lose in the past few days? And if gold hits $1000 how green will you be? Apparently it will be "way" green until it is in the "red." It must have been nice to be on the trading floor today and see gold short stops being hit left and right and caving in. A nice turnabout don't ya think? Fair is fair.
Didn't the anti-gold crowd "school" us this past month that paper losses are real losses?
roadrunner
<< <i>The bottom could well be behind us.
Now we need Congress to end all paper metals.
They MUST be put to death quickly and severe penalties(jail time) to those involved at the upper levels for their actions.
It has to end for this economy to start the rebuilding cycle in a Constitutional manner.
No more manipulation. We know who the perpetrators were. Penalties should be paid in the form of damages until they are wiped out.
Bankers need not reply. You know who you are. >>
I only have one word concerning the above........."AMEN!!!"
<< <i> Position is way green? .
How much did you lose in the past few days? And if gold hits $1000 how green will you be? Apparently it will be "way" green until it is red.
Didn't the anti-gold crowd "school" us this past month that paper losses are real losses?
roadrunner >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
In the history of the world, gold has never gone up as much in one session as it did today.
If I was LONG gold, I would sell into the strength.
Since I am SHORT GLD, I shorted more into the strength.
These are CORE-Positions; NOT trades. I can hold them and ADD to them.......... forever.
(Just like the LONGs can sit on their bags of metals......forever.)
/////////////
FTR:
In the BIG thread, when I first said it was "almost time" to SHORT GLD, gold was at $980.
When I first moved against SLV, silver was about $19.00+.
These markets are in for a major overhaul. Don't believe me?? Look what happened to the invesment banks
brokers and freddie and fannie in the span of 7 to 10 days...
The brokers selling imaginary silver and gold are next... A nice audit of their vault supply in ratio to shares
sold should be interesting to watch play out....
sold should be interesting to watch play out.... "
....................................
The FACT is that the "vaults" are very well-regulated and audited,
in relation to the ETFs SLV and GLD.
Anybody with info to the contrary, can file a fast claim and it WILL
be investigated. Complainants ONLY need a LITTLE evidence to get
the ball in play.
enforcement@sec.gov
The decline in price was lighting fast and the supply (at that price level) evaporated like water in a desert. The supply is out there , no shortage just a stalemate.
At what level the breaking point will be will be fasinating to watch. At some point one side will have to give in.
<< <i>"The brokers selling imaginary silver and gold are next... A nice audit of their vault supply in ratio to shares
sold should be interesting to watch play out.... "
....................................
The FACT is that the "vaults" are very well-regulated and audited,
in relation to the ETFs SLV and GLD.
Anybody with info to the contrary, can file a fast claim and it WILL
be investigated. Complainants ONLY need a LITTLE evidence to get
the ball in play.
enforcement@sec.gov >>
link to the whole story and many more just like it...
I am going to make a very straight-forward statement. I don’t think short-selling of any kind should be allowed in the shares of the SLV, nor in the shares of the two publicly-traded gold ETFs, GLD and IAU. Of all the tens of thousands of different common stock and other traded securities that are regulated by the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), these three metal ETFs are very unique and distinct from the rest. Out of tens of thousands of different securities, only SLV, GLD, and IAU call for a rigid metal backing, 10 ounces of silver behind each share of SLV, one-tenth of an ounce of gold behind each share of either GLD or IAU. Investors buy shares of these ETFs because they are assured that this specific metal backing exists. Investors buy shares knowing that the sponsors and custodians guarantee the metal to be there.
But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold.
Here’s the disturbing question - which buyers’ shares are left without silver backing when short sellers are involved in the transaction? Just the hapless and unsuspecting buyer who was unlucky enough to happen to have his purchase short sold, or do all SLV shareholders get shaved proportionately, like a silver coin clipped in olden times? Don’t look to the prospectus for answers, because you won’t find any.
For those who were unaware of this and don’t understand how shares can be sold with no metal backing (or doubt my contention), there is hard proof. There is a short position list reported that proves short selling exists. Currently, the SLV shows a small published short position on the American Stock Exchange of around 250,000 shares, or the equivalent of 2.5 million ounces. On March 11, this reported short position hit almost 1 million shares, or nearly 10 million ounces. So, there can be no doubt that some short selling exists, which raises all sorts of disturbing questions. In my opinion, this aspect of the metal-only ETFs wasn‘t fully thought through before their introduction. Unfortunately, the problem may be worse than just this SLV short selling; maybe much worse.
Around this past April 15 I began to notice a more pronounced delay of silver deliveries into the SLV. This was for much larger amounts of silver than I previously observed. In fact, the amount of short selling in SLV shares began to look extreme.
Just a short word on short-selling. Please don’t confuse this discussion on the short selling of shares of the SLV (and GLD and IAU) with the short selling I continually discuss in COMEX silver futures. I know this can be a complicated topic, but it is important for you to understand it. In futures, there must be a short for every long. Therefore, the problem in silver futures is not the presence of shorts, but the documented concentrated nature of this short position, namely, an extremely large short position held by just a few traders. Less extreme concentrations in other commodities have always been considered manipulative by the CFTC in the past; just not now in silver (and gold), for some reason.
Due to relaxations in the restrictions on short selling over the past decade by the SEC, the new phenomenon of naked short selling has exploded. Naked short selling in stocks doesn’t involve first borrowing the shares in which to sell short. The naked short seller just sells short without borrowing shares. The short seller then fails to deliver the shares to the buyer on settlement date. The punishment for what is essentially a delivery default? The SEC puts out a (long) list of stocks which have fails to deliver. That’s all it does, it makes a list. No fines, no forced buy backs, no identification of who is naked short selling, no staying after school for detention. And yes, SLV is on that list from time to time. To SLV owners, that should be disturbing.
One last kick in the teeth for SLV and silver investors. All investors who purchase SLV shares must pay in full for their shares (or borrow from their brokers at sky-high margin interest rates). Not only do the naked short sellers not have to deposit a dime for their short sales, nor deposit one ounce of real silver, they receive the full cash proceeds that the buyers put up and get to earn interest and deploy that cash until they buy back their short sales. Which may be never, as no one is pressuring them. This is a Wall Street scam and fleecing of the first order.
While it is simple to prove that both short selling and naked short selling in the SLV exists, it is not easy to quantify the amount. I’m convinced much of the naked short selling is done on an unreported basis. My best current guess of the amount of cumulative short selling in SLV shares since April 15, is between 2.5 to 5 million shares. This represents an amount of silver of between 25 to 50 million ounces. Let me be clear. I believe that buyers have paid for and hold shares in SLV for more than 25 to 50 million ounces of silver than are deposited in the trust. Can I prove this? No. Do I make this statement loosely and without careful consideration? No. Could the amount of naked short sales of SLV be less than my estimate? Yes. Could the amount of naked short sales be more than my estimate? Yes.
In the interest of full disclosure, I did try to take the high road in this matter. Several weeks ago, I notified Barclays Global Investors (BGI), of my specific concerns and asked them to resolve the issue privately. Since I have seen no effort on their part to do so, nor to refute my contentions, I decided to go public with this. In addition, a colleague of mine, Carl Loeb, also wrote to Barclays, which resulted in an exchange that either confirmed or did not deny the information I am describing today.
So what does this all mean to the silver market and, especially, to SLV investors? For the silver market, nothing could be more bullish or more disturbing. If I am correct, one or more Authorized Participants (APs), perhaps even Barclays, are the most likely candidates to be the big naked shorts in SLV. And it is hard to imagine that such naked short sellers of SLV are not one and the same as the big concentrated COMEX shorts.
What makes this so bullish for silver is that there is only one good reason for anyone to naked short sell SLV shares - because the available silver needed to be purchased and put into the custodian’s vault doesn’t exist. Rather than go out and aggressively bid up the price of world silver, it is infinitely easier just to sell shares of SLV short. No one would be the wiser and it keeps the price nice and orderly. But this also confirms that real silver may be unavailable in wholesale quantities. In other words, this would be proof of a wholesale shortage of silver to go along with a retail shortage.
Not a single ounce of this silver actually exists and none of it will ever be delivered to a buyer of silver. The whole transaction will be settled some time in the future in paper and in effect has no influence on the true supply or demand for silver metal even though it has a huge influence on the price.
www.investmentrarities...
/Show more... /Show less.Aug 23 11:53 AM
Gold hit my 80 and 240 ma (They crossed today) today, right in the axis, stopped it cold.
I almost shorted, but couldn't pull the trigger because of the extreme volume 50.1 % over average.
I think you may have pegged that gld short absolute- Brave man. Must have a lot of trading experience and
a cool steady trigger finger.
in relation to the ETFs SLV and GLD.
Anybody with info to the contrary, can file a fast claim and it WILL
be investigated. Complainants ONLY need a LITTLE evidence to get
the ball in play.
enforcement@sec.gov
----------------------
The thing is with SLV shares one can naked short sell them thus creating silver out of nowhere. All it takes to create fake shares is to get a broker to show they can reasonably find the shares you wish to sell short.
The broker does not have to actually locate any real shares for months. By that time can be in and out of a short before it even becomes an issue. Happens all the time.
SEC does not have the time or ability to check millions of daily transactions. They only step in when thing get too far gone.
Check out how many stocks make a home on the regulation SHO list every day. Many of those stocks stay there for years. All victums of continued FTD's(failure to deliver)
IF he had any evidence, he would have used it.
SHORTing legitimately-borrowed shares has ZERO effect on the
obligations of the ETF-Trusts.
Butler writes for folks who have no clue how the ETF markets work.
His essay is full of ridiculous assertions.
///////////////////////
At midnight tonight, the fools/criminals at the SEC claim they will be looking
to put naked-shorts in prison. The "new" regs have been - essentially -
in place for years; now, they say they are going to enforce them.
/////////////////
There are NO instances that I can find of SLV or GLD being on the Reg.SHO-List.
(The list of "falied to deliver" securities.) Naked-Shorting is a non-issue in
SLV and GLD.
For newbies to the subject, here is a
Primer On Naked Shorting:
bizjive
Please, since you seem so sure of your position. And we wouldn't want to mis lead any new investors
on this board.
Please PM me the third party auditor who does a regular Bar audit of the Barclay vaults....
I have searched for the Bar audit results and cannot find a single audit of Barclays vault holding the single
largest stockpile of silver bullion....
This shouldn't be a problem for you since EVERY share is protected by physical silver..
In order to claim a basket of iShares it has to be a minimum of 50,000 shares. Then you pay a
2000.00 fee to barclays to redeem your iShares. On top of any other fee's incured by the authorized
participants..
The trust will have limited duration. If certain events occur, at any time, the trustee will have to terminate the trust. Otherwise, the trust will terminate automatically after forty years.
Upon termination of the trust, the trustee will sell silver in the amount necessary to cover all expenses of liquidation, and to pay any outstanding liabilities of the trust. The remaining silver will be distributed among investors surrendering iShares. Any silver remaining in the possession of the trustee after 90 days may be sold by the trustee and the proceeds of the sale will be held by the trustee until claimed by any remaining holders of iShares. Sales of silver in connection with the liquidation of the trust at a time of low prices will likely result in losses, or adversely affect your gains, on your investment in iShares.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm looking for any signs of all those $6-$9 bottom silver callers. Anyone?
rodrunner >>
What happened to the grand conspiracy to keep down PM prices? Did it take the day off?
Could be that buyers are now demanding physical, instead of 'paper' driven by the Comex manipulated price.
An observation that I posted in another thread, for those who maintain that there is no shortage of silver, and as their evidence that many of the bullion dealers have plenty of 1000 ounce bars.......
One or two days ago, Tulving had 90 of the 1000 ounce bars available ..... today they are SOLD OUT. Tells me that something has definitely changed, and perhaps some big money has now entered the market and purchasing PHYSICAL silver.
No, I have not checked other bullion dealers, so perhaps I am off base with this observation. I have only checked Tulving the last couple of days.
<< <i>"The brokers selling imaginary silver and gold are next... A nice audit of their vault supply in ratio to shares
sold should be interesting to watch play out.... "
....................................
The FACT is that the "vaults" are very well-regulated and audited,
in relation to the ETFs SLV and GLD.
Anybody with info to the contrary, can file a fast claim and it WILL
be investigated. Complainants ONLY need a LITTLE evidence to get
the ball in play.
enforcement@sec.gov >>
Sorry, but I have to LOL on this one. Yes, they are well audited.... on the paper side. Actual physical auditing is an entirely different story. Try finding an auditor (that does not belong to one of the banks) who has atually set foot inside any of the 'vaults' unannounced or with an absolute mininum amount of time notice. Most audits consist of tracking the PAPER trail to ensure all is in order.......
////////////////////////////////////
That is largely correct.
Delivery tickets are counted/matched to deliveries AND inventory ALL DAY LONG; repeatedly; 24/7.
There are some good reasons that SLV/GLD are not a good-stash. The false allegation that
"the metals are not there," is not one of those reasons.
The audited financials - GAAP - are available at EDGAR-Online and/or any online-brokerage. The SEC filings
are easy to review.
ANYBODY who has ANY evidence that the metals are "missing," should contact the SEC immediately.
<< <i>"...Most audits consist of tracking the PAPER trail to ensure all is in order....... "
////////////////////////////////////
That is largely correct.
Delivery tickets are counted/matched to deliveries AND inventory ALL DAY LONG; repeatedly; 24/7.
There are some good reasons that SLV/GLD are not a good-stash. The false allegation that
"the metals are not there," is not one of those reasons.
The audited financials - GAAP - are available at EDGAR-Online and/or any online-brokerage. The SEC filings
are easy to review.
ANYBODY who has ANY evidence that the metals are "missing," should contact the SEC immediately. >>
Barclays must have some real good KoolAid at refreshment time........
Link us to a Physical Silver Bar Audit done by a third party, PLEASE
You keep defending your position without any proof to back it up. I cannot find a physical vault audit anywhere.
And I am not the only one thinking it. Google, Barclays physical bar vault audit, and link it to the board.
There are plenty of discrepencies concerning the actual shares sold and any coresponding deliveries.
Backup your post claiming "false allegation" with hard proof. That's all I am asking for.
I guess the investors can feel safe with the PAPER audits that are out there.. I am sure Lehmans and AIG investors
feel better about their past audits.... Of course their PAPER looked good until the investors decided to SELL OFF
their shares..
I guess we will both hold valid points. At least until the holders of PAPER decide they want REAL silver...
......I hate smart serious fellas...
I don't mind though, good to have another solid voice around here.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
they pee'd in their pants and wanted their momma' and ran for cover under her apron
Yup, been that way forever.