Why was the Franklin mint so popular in the 1970's?

pennyannie

I bought a large stack of old coin magazines a few months ago. There were coin mags from the 1960's, 70's, 80's and 1990's. I have enjoyed going thru them and looking at the adds and the prices they ask. Some of the coins and prices were very interesting from the early to mid 70's mags. One thing i think i noticed is that the Franklin mint items seem to be very popular. Lots of ads for the Franklin mint. Articles were written about the mint and so on. Why was the F.M. popular then? Was it silver hoarders? I doubt it since the products carried a hefty premium. With all the cool coins out there at the time to pick and chose from why buy new Franklin Mint products? My guess is the public in large did not trust the dealers of the day and there were no pictures of specific coins for sale? Thanks

rgCoinGuy

My guess is promotion.

GrumpyEd

Maybe at the time it was sort of like HSN is today?

CaptHenway

Good artwork (they hired Chief Engraver Gilroy Roberts away from the Mint for more money) and a lot of advertising.
Plus, silver was on a slow but steady upwards climb, and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
TD

Bayard1908

I believe a significant percentage of the public back then didn't know the difference between the Franklin Mint and the U.S. Mint. If my memory was correct, there was a 60 Minutes story on this very topic.

19Lyds

Mail order advertising!

You could get just about anytype of collectible from them and if you ordered just ONE THING, you would get weekly mailers from them for all kinds of stuff for about a year afterwards!

cladking

Who can explain why anything gets popular.

It was a combination of factors that allowed it from the lack of
silver in circulation to the perception that the medal was under-
valued. Quality for most of these products was simply superb.
Even the aluminum gas station tokens are really pretty well ex-
ecuted.

People started tripping over one another to buy the products
put out by the various mints and especially the Franklin Mint. By
1972 some of the art bars were approaching a couple hundred
on the secondary market. The 1000 grain 1972 FM Christmas
bars was one of the most popular but by the early '90's it barely
still commanded a premium to melt.

It was simply a craze and didn't really end until '77/ '78.

Because there were some scarce and desirable items there are
collectors today for many of these. Today collectors are seeking
scarcity to a higher degree than popularity.

Much of the FM medals, tokens, and coins are grossly underapp-
reciated today. Many of the coins were real coins and have been
used up in commerce in various countries. Much of the gold has
been redeemed and destroyed. The scarcity, attrition, and great
quality pretty much assures that much of this material will be ap-
preciated in the future.

cladking

<< <i>I believe a significant percentage of the public back then didn't know the difference between the Franklin Mint and the U.S. Mint. If my memory was correct, there was a 60 Minutes story on this very topic. >>




This program hardly provides any balanced reporting of anything. They
are character assassins for hire.

Their "expose" on the FM was quite recent; late '90's if memory serves.

ricko

<< I believe a significant percentage of the public back then didn't know the difference between the Franklin Mint and the U.S. Mint. If my memory was correct, there was a 60 Minutes story on this very topic. >>

This program hardly provides any balanced reporting of anything. They
are character assassins for hire.

I agree with CladKing.... they are hired hitmen with an agenda.... Cheers, RickO

FullStrike

Promotion.

I remember the Franklin Mint presented its stuff so convincingly that you just knew it was a good investment. Of course it wasn't but it was so enticing at the time that you just couldn't help but bite. Sort of like US Mint junk now.

Anyway, I remember buying Panama 20 Balboas from the FM. Nice cool big 4 oz Silver Coins that ended up purely bullion pieces. Real junk but I thought they were cool at the time.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>I believe a significant percentage of the public back then didn't know the difference between the Franklin Mint and the U.S. Mint. If my memory was correct, there was a 60 Minutes story on this very topic. >>




This program hardly provides any balanced reporting of anything. They
are character assassins for hire.

Their "expose" on the FM was quite recent; late '90's if memory serves. >>



They did the attack interview at the Houston ANA convention in 1978. I remember watching the hubbub. It aired that Fall.
TD

Frankcoins

<< <i>Maybe at the time it was sort of like HSN is today? >>



Close. Joseph Segel, founder of the Franklin Mint, also founded QVC, a rival to HSN

Frankcoins

<< <i><< I believe a significant percentage of the public back then didn't know the difference between the Franklin Mint and the U.S. Mint. If my memory was correct, there was a 60 Minutes story on this very topic. >>

This program hardly provides any balanced reporting of anything. They
are character assassins for hire.

I agree with CladKing.... they are hired hitmen with an agenda.... Cheers, RickO >>



It's an investigative journalism program, not news. And since that type of reporting is designed to expose
wrongdoing, it does have a point of view. They also do personality profiles, just this past Sunday was a 20
minute interview with Justice Scalia which was quite flattering.

RWB

Franklin Mint combined excellent marketing and product development with quality production and interesting, appealing designs for their coins and medals. Many forget that in addition to NCLT pieces for collectors, the also struck circulating coinage for several countries. While most of their NCLT is priced at bullion, quality and design still compare favorably with recent items from private and national mints. Their US bicentennial medals are still among the most interesting issued for the 50 states.

VIP business cards included small bronze or silver proof medals.

7Jaguars

Interestingly some of their coins have been going up in countries that either have growing economies or are near to them. Try pricing a 1984 Papua New Guinea Proof Set with the Papal Visit Coin - this set has gone for over 500 USD on the 'bay, and I think the issue price may have been 85 or so. Other examples out there...

At least as nice looking coins as the '09 Plat (maybe) coming our way!

pmac

Any offers for the stuff my mother bought?

Dentuck

Katherine Jaeger's Guide Book of United States Tokens and Medals has a chapter on the Franklin Mint, with photos and values.

stevek

In a nutshell:

Other than proof coins, those uncirculated sets from the Mint were considered garbage, and there wasn't really anything "new and exciting' that the mint was producing. Didn't bother me because I am a "hard-core" collector - but to newbies I would have to imagine that all the new coins from the Franklin Mint, even though not legal tender, were exciting and interesting. I believe the Mint took a cue from the Franklin Mint in all the new stuff being produced in recent years.

Nap

In a hundred years or so they will probably be as collectible as hard times tokens, civil war tokens, private territorial coinage, etc. Mind you, as collectible, not as valuable.

Coxe

Yes, they were the HSN before the internet. And I agree that a LOT of buyers thought they were the US MInt or some official legacy of Ben Franklin. They did produce some attractive things in their sea of products. They also did mint offical coins for many other countries. I think there were way too many of their medallions made and still extant to become important tokens in the fuure, but never know. I do think the US Mint is becoming a similar joke, though sanctioned by Congress.

Whitby

<< <i>In a nutshell:

Other than proof coins, those uncirculated sets from the Mint were considered garbage, and there wasn't really anything "new and exciting' that the mint was producing. Didn't bother me because I am a "hard-core" collector - but to newbies I would have to imagine that all the new coins from the Franklin Mint, even though not legal tender, were exciting and interesting. I believe the Mint took a cue from the Franklin Mint in all the new stuff being produced in recent years. >>



I agree with you

cladking

<< <i>In a hundred years or so they will probably be as collectible as hard times tokens, civil war tokens, private territorial coinage, etc. Mind you, as collectible, not as valuable. >>



I believe you're grossly underestimating the potential of a lot
of this material. It's true that even the finest silver medals may
never have a large premium because of mintages in the thous-
ands and the very high mintage aluminum tokens might not have
enough attrition even in a hundred years to make them valuable
but the fact is that some of what they made was made in very
small quantity and could easily garner substantial demand. They
made hundreds of different gold coins for various countries for
instance. Some are sufficiently common and have such low attri-
tion that they aren't likely to attract attention unless something
changes in the future. But what about something like the 1984
BVI $25 gold. These had a mintage of "97". Being a part of the
British empire certainly gives them a huge potential base of de-
mand. Even many of the coins minted in the thousands have had
spectacularly high attrition. These coins are rounded up and re-
deemed for their high face values.

It's not as though the potential stops there. The simple fact is one
can't predict where future collectors will specialize. With wider av-
ailability of collectibles made possible by the net there might well
be more people collecting by themes. This would affect virtually ev-
ery Franklin Mint product to some degree.

Civil war and hard times tokens usually had mintages of a thousand
or multiples of it. Attrition was pretty tame by the standards of some
FM items. The quality of the old tokens is generally not extremely
good and almost none might be said to be "artistic".

The Franklin Mint stuff is much nicer and much scarcer and you just
might not need to wait 100 years to see much higher prices on some
of it.

cladking

<< <i>In a nutshell:

Other than proof coins, those uncirculated sets from the Mint were considered garbage, and there wasn't really anything "new and exciting' that the mint was producing. Didn't bother me because I am a "hard-core" collector - but to newbies I would have to imagine that all the new coins from the Franklin Mint, even though not legal tender, were exciting and interesting. I believe the Mint took a cue from the Franklin Mint in all the new stuff being produced in recent years. >>




People simply didn't collect any modern coins until just ten years ago. People
didn't buy mint sets because they thought the sets were exciting. They bought
them because they were available and it was believed a profit was a sure thing.
It was the high mintages of the mint sets that assured they were a lousy long
term hold.

Time has a way of changing everything. Even though mintages of the mint sets
were high the attrition has also been high. Things men don't value simply won't
survive. Since no one was collecting moderns no one even knew that the best
quality was found in these sets. Yes, they are usually very poor quality but there
was no better quality and no one saved anything else.

This has set up the situation where high grade coins have value because there
are a few collectors now. The average mint set might still be a lousy long term in-
vestment but it might not be so long until this changes too. There just aren't that
many of these sets left and two out of three of these sets do have a nice choice
coin in them. That means the average mint set is desirable when the demand is
great enough.

When you consider that most of the clad in the mint sets have lower surviving
populations than the '50-D nickel when it got up to $175 in today's money that
could make the sets a pretty good buy. It sure would seem to make the gems
a steal.

phillymatt

Ditto:

<< <i>Any offers for the stuff my mother bought? >>



We have some of the same stuff around, I guess the only upside is the silver content of some.

7Jaguars

Uhhh, the mint sets have and are doing pretty well now in the secondary market & quite cheap at that with probable growth.I have followed these and note a recent upsurge of modest proportions.

Some of the bronze statues are casting of quality and also quite cheap which is good.

As far as the model cars, planes, and porcelein (sp?), well they are a matter of individual taste and not too great in my opinion.

ambro51

I worked in a bindery in those days. This is the place that got work from the printer and then cut and folded it. Heavy work. AND, that Franklin Mint advertised like hell by direct mail. Nice glitzy adds, hundreds of products. Cheap slippery paper that was a devil to fold. Personally Lifted, without a doubt, at least a half billion pieces of their work over the years.

Now, binderies are all fading out, paper printing is becoming a thing of the past, and the guys I used to work for are all going out of business. boo hoo.

WoodenJefferson

quote: QVC, a cable shopping network which broadcasts live 24 hours a day, was started in June, 1986 by Franklin Mint founder, Joseph Segel, and began operations in November 1986. In the United States, QVC operates two cable shopping services -- the original QVC, which broadcasts from West Chester, Pennsylvania, and Q2, which broadcasts from New York. The network has a sister station in the United Kingdom called QVC The Shopping Channel.


Now, if my memory serves me correctly, it was either the Franklin Mint or the Morgan Mint that the FCC went after in the early 70's to have them add a disclaimer to all their advertisements that they were in no way connected to the United States Mint or affiliated with any branch of the United States Government.

stevek

<< <i>quote: QVC, a cable shopping network which broadcasts live 24 hours a day, was started in June, 1986 by Franklin Mint founder, Joseph Segel, and began operations in November 1986. In the United States, QVC operates two cable shopping services -- the original QVC, which broadcasts from West Chester, Pennsylvania, and Q2, which broadcasts from New York. The network has a sister station in the United Kingdom called QVC The Shopping Channel.


Now, if my memory serves me correctly, it was either the Franklin Mint or the Morgan Mint that the FCC went after in the early 70's to have them add a disclaimer to all their advertisements that they were in no way connected to the United States Mint or affiliated with any branch of the United States Government. >>



I used to work with Segel's son at a camera shop in Philadelphia. For whatever reason his son wanted to go his own way, but he was still friendly with his father and family, just didn't work at the Franklin Mint. But he knew from our conversations that I was an avid coin collector, a member of several coin clubs including the Double Eagle Coin Club, and he used to bring in for me to look at, some of the finest stuff that the Franklin Mint produced - stuff that was their top of the line merchandise. Was it "pretty" and enjoyable to look at? Of course it was but I never told him this and to be honest even while looking at the beauty of it, I was always thinking to myself that I'd rather be looking at a collection of even XF Indian Head pennies or Barber dimes, etc. The Franklin Mint coins just never really deep down "appealed" to me to want to collect them, but I can certainly understand how others would find them interesting and collectible, and of course the Franklin Mint collectors also hoped that these products would be a good investment as well.

cladking

<< <i> The Franklin Mint coins just never really deep down "appealed" to me to want to collect them, but I can certainly understand how others would find them interesting and collectible, and of course the Franklin Mint collectors also hoped that these products would be a good investment as well. >>



Not many original buyers will do well on this stuff if they're waiting
for a profit. But in the time since they were sold most have been and
still are available for next to nothing. You can pick up spectacular
bronze medals for about double the price of their copper. Silver's
a steal and gold is sometimes less than the face value.

It's hard to believe that people won't start seeing some of the value
here. As 7jaguars mentioned some of this stuff is styarting to draw
attention. It's not only stuff like the Papua New Guinea proof sets
but even their circulating coinage as well. This stuff has circulated
for decades now and there's an ongoing coin shortage. I guess we'll
see what survives over the next few years but it won't be a lot.

ScarsdaleCoin

I collect a lot of the Franklin Mint products, the quality is some of the best in the business....take a look at their silver sets and judge for your self great workmanship and to this day highly collectible... of course the fact that silver has gone up so much has taken some of the luster off the sets since they contain a lot of metal

Broadstruck

Why was Disco so popular in the 1970's?

BlindedByEgo

My uncle bought and sold a ton of the stuff through his coin shop in Greensboro, NC back in the 80's. Occasionally he would send me an interesting piece just for fun, but FM stuff never really floated my boat. I still have a few pounds of it laying around, though.