Almost ALL commodities have been manipulated. EVERYTHING should go down, because the wealthy speculators/hedge funds will want out. Don't try to match Gold with the Dollar now. It's anyones guess. I think NOW-
GLOBAL slowdown will help the U.S. dollar, hurt oil/gold. You watch...
OK...hard to put a definitive pencil to the topic but some things we do know
1. Banks are hoarding cash and not lending except to guaranteed returns so no risk, no growth.
2. Economic growth has slowed and will continue to slow so no expansion; it will take a good while to recover from this.
3. "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" Herbert Hoover, 1928. Excellent campaign slogan, hummmmm.
4. Physical Metal is valuable. All those anti-PM/Rah Rah equities talking heads...probably looking for a job like the MSNBC anchors (see, we were right). Which would you rather have, gold that you paid $800/oz for and is worth $800 now or a few hundred shares of Freddie mac that you paid $30 for a few months ago and is now worth 37 cents a share? Gold is good.
5. Bank stocks...wait, but if you can pick the three survivors you can maybe recoup some losses here.
6. Energy stocks-buy them cheap; all God's children need energy but watch out for underfunded juniors. The problem with energy is the more growth and expansion there is, the more energy that is required and the more expensive it becomes because of demand. Consequently, with global growth slowing and expansion slowing, energy will be more available and cost less so maybe this is a good time to watch the prices recede before jumping in.
7. Two most safe positions: Physical metal and cash; all the rest are pretenders or a crap shoot.
8. The first thing that happens to stressed companies...sell hard assets (dump metal).
9. Roaring 20's then the 30's great depression, exhuberant 90's then what ever is next. Methinks history is repeating itself (see #7 above).Equities chart
10. Unemployment is rising and will continue to rise significantly and there is nothing that can be done about it if the govt. doesn't want to institute work programs for unemployed. 592,000 lost their jobs last month (bureau of labor statistics)
11. The credit providers are probably checking to see how long they will last with many people choosing to have electricity and a car instead of a good credit history with the issuers...doo dah, your predatory practices killed off your food source...what to do, doo dah, doo dah. Flush
At some point, people will see that holding your own metal and cash is a good plan, ala 1930, funny how history repeats itself. The worry is that we assume the public in general to be completely clueless and will swim into the mullet net but maybe not, maybe this will be the clarion to get a plan and pay attention to your stuff.
Now, on the other hand there is a sociological twist to this. The gulf of separation between those that have wealth, good income producing jobs and those that wish they had those things is going to be greater. Help where you can but remember to take care of yourself and your family first. There's going to be a lot of begging and crying before we see nice growth again. 501 C-3 organization donations are good for a tax credit, give where you can but get your letter of donation from the receipient.
4) i have dibs on Erin if she goes.... she is pretty smart actually and not because she is brunette
7) yes
there is a lot of belt tightening going on, up and down the classes, except for maybe the elite rich, but now it isn't "cool" to drive a Range Rover to Safeway, more like a Prius....
<<You mean like the global slowdown hurt oil/gold in the 1970's? >>
Sure Roadrunner. Another example is the mid-90's (the "Asian Crisis").
<<Two most safe positions: Physical metal and cash;>> I agree - but there are risks for these two of course - storage of gold, inflation risk/currency risk of cash... neighbors and friends that know you got these two!!!
Maybe JPM, Citi, BoA, and HSBC feel slighted by the attention all those other failed banks are getting. They'll get their turn though as these 4 have the largest ratio's of credit derivatives to assets among the remaining large banks.
Who said the FED was not going to hand out any money to Lehman?
JPMorgan Gave Lehman $138 Billion After Bankruptcy
Sept. 16 (Bloomberg) -- JPMorgan Chase & Co. gave $138 billion this week in Federal Reserve-backed advances to the broker dealer unit of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. to settle Lehman trades and keep financial markets stable amid the biggest bankruptcy in history, according to a court filing. One advance of $87 billion was made on Sept. 15 after the pre-dawn bankruptcy filing, and another of $51 billion was made today, Lehman said in court documents. Both advances were made to settle securities transactions with customers of Lehman and its clearance parties, according to the filing. The advances were necessary ``to avoid a disruption of the financial markets,'' Lehman said in the filing.
The first advance was repaid by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York on the night of Sept. 15, Lehman said. JPMorgan said in a statement that the $51 billion advance was also repaid and the process will zero out the advances at the end of each day. ....
Everything neatly rezeroed. You have to spank them zeroes to keep them in line when they get feisty. Everything fixed. Carry on.
Looks like by the AM the FED will be stakeholders in AIG. Welcome to the bailout club!
Sinclair was suggesting $90 BILL needed to make the deal. It may only cost $85 BILL. For those insured via AIG does this mean you can cease paying premiums? Why bother paying yourself??
80% stake now in AIG, they just went and nationalized an insurance company. The future is always unknown but this really makes it unsettling. IMO this makes physical PMs all the more desireable for a greater number of people, although it may raise fears of a 1932 move some where down the line.
Have a long time friend who is in insurance, family business. It's all he has ever done and he's near retirement.
A year ago he told me that AIG was getting far too over extended in that area.
They were losing money hand over fist and kept selling policies too cheap, I suppose they figured they would make it up in volume.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I had moved all of my clients to cash and bonds. 15% exposure to the markets, which is STILL too high.
I thought gold and other commodites would suffer because of global slowdown, but I own more gold (coins) than what I have in stocks. (well not tough to beat - almost NOTHING in stocks).
Anyways, I DO want gold to go up, which it is doing today in a "take no prisoners" way!!! I am though shocked. But thrilled. I should have listened to Brian years ago - would have saved my clients a ton more from the greedy wall street markets...
Seems to me part of the rise might have been a liquidation of short postions of gold and long positions of oil. Gee, I wonder who that could be--------------------------BigE
Seems to me part of the rise might have been a liquidation of short postions of gold and long positions of oil. Gee, I wonder who that could be--------------------------BigE
Good observation. Things are moving fast and furious today.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I had moved all of my clients to cash and bonds. 15% exposure to the markets, which is STILL too high.
I thought gold and other commodites would suffer because of global slowdown, but I own more gold (coins) than what I have in stocks. (well not tough to beat - almost NOTHING in stocks).
Anyways, I DO want gold to go up, which it is doing today in a "take no prisoners" way!!! I am though shocked. But thrilled. I should have listened to Brian years ago - would have saved my clients a ton more from the greedy wall street markets... >>
Welcome to the shiney side, Lloyd.
Brian and I will always say you are a man of your word. (personal inside dealings)
Yeah, I'm sure we also own more gold than stocks.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Seems to me part of the rise might have been a liquidation of short postions of gold and long positions of oil. Gee, I wonder who that could be--------------------------BigE >>
My CNY currency went from 37 to 29.50 and back to 38+. Someone...unloaded...obviously forced out of the market. Did I have the nerve to step in and buy some in the low 30s? Of course not.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
They seem to be remaing sound, but it could all be hype.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>WAMU is looking for a buyer...... Wachovia, too
>>
WaMu has been looking. They are one of the next to fail.
I figured they would already be gone by now. If BofA turned them down, they are about to be toast.
Citigroup is the one that is going to fold and bring the real Hellstorm. They arent that far away.
I found this straw outside, it was on a camel. His back was broken, it was the last one.........
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>WAMU is looking for a buyer...... Wachovia, too
>>
BofA already owns 60% of Wachovia, they will just gobble them up once and for all very soon for the last few pennies on the dollar.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
>>>>The depth of the money-market problems became clear at lunchtime in London, when the British Bankers' Association published Tuesday's Libor borrowing costs. Every day, 16 banks report what it would cost them to borrow at certain maturities and currencies. Overnight dollar Libor soared to 6.4375% from 3.10625%, the largest jump on record. Three-month dollar Libor rose to 2.876% from 2.816%. Big global banks such as Bank of America, Credit Suisse Group, UBS, Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC and others reported overnight borrowing costs of 6% or higher in dollars, compared with 3% just a day earlier.<<<<
Lloyd certainly handles these market zigs with a lot more class than our resident "gold is a poor investment" crowd. Tip o' the hat to Lloyd. None of us have come here for the past 4 years to profit at other's expense. We don't need to line up more people with us to make our bets more likely to come in. We've just felt from our hearts what was going to play out. The worst volatility and pain is way down the road as these credit derivatives are just beginning to unwind. Sinclair says that Lehman stating under $1 TRILLION in derivatives exposure is pure bunk. They have TRILLIONS to unwind with many of those totally worthless. And he has said many times that when you fail, derivative's notional value becomes actual value. 100%...the whole enchildada. In other words you and your counter party are cooked.
HSBC may not have as many total bets as the bigger Citi, JPM, etc. but they are leveraged at 6:1 credit derivatives to assets. That puts them at the top of the heap and squarely in harm's way to eventually go down.
You can bet that Goldman is on the right side of the current move up in gold just like when they shorted MBS's. Funny how they played those.
To those that were proclaiming they'd be buying in at $850 gold, then $800, then $750, and finally $650-$750, I sincerely hope you didn't get too greedy and miss the boat once again. $100 move in gold in 2 days is pretty intense. Incredible actually at this point even with the massive bank tank-down that we all know occurred (forget the no manipulation crap). But what gets tanken down quickly can rise just as quick.
But the new news is that gold can now move $100 up in a day. That changes the complexion of the shorts and longs considerably.
We already knew the PPT could help knock gold down $100 over several days. Now we know the opposite is true. This same lesson was learned when gold was $400 and the PPT would NOT allow gold to move up more than $6-9 a day. That occurred for a few years when finally gold had it's first $10 day! It seemed like such a big step - a daily double digit move! Then we got a $20 day, etc, etc. Baby steps but each step with less and less cartel control. Eventually we will see a $200 day move - up or down, possibly much more. And that means $20-$30 oil moves too. The fact that the cartel allowed this to happen is big news.
<< <i>That kind of volatility sounds like ambrosia to paper traders, which I don't think will make deadhorse too happy! >>
I don't have any problem with paper traders who deal in real assets, as long as the commodity is actually there to start with.
Things like soybeans, wheat, oil, all the regular commodities.
My problem is with the paper metal creators. There is no jurisdiction there. There is probably more paper silver than there is physical silver on the planet, but I'm sure the books are cooked and there is no way to know, there is no doubt that they don't own anywhere near the silver to back the paper thay have printed.
That's the crime! I want to see SLV digging up graves and pulling out the fillings from corpses to produce the real thing they claim they have and freely trade and manipulate. They are essentially printing money, counterfeit money with little backing, I believe that by law only Congress can authorize the printing of money.
Anyone who buys into them is hurting the real investors. They aren't selling silver, ask for your silver and see what it costs you to pry it from their greedy fingers. It's cheaper to just buy the physical to start with. If everybody asked for their real silver, they would go belly up overnight and off to prison for fraud. Also, for those who buy and sell it, don't forget your 28% tax on any profits. It's not treated like stock by the IRS. You may fool them for a while, but it will catch up to you.
You are really only buying a share of a bet on the spot price, one they have shown they can manipulate. How foolish do you have to be to put your portfolio there? Does anybody remember or has studied what happened to paper silver owners in 1980? I was there, I remember, they deserved what they got. With SLV, you are really getting into a derivatives game, not buying silver. If it looks like a duck, etc. When the hammer falls, the Government isn't going to bail out individual investors.
I wasn't aware that HSBC was that far out on a limb. I guess what I have read really was hype. I had thought it was only leveraged at around 2:1. What happened to the Scottish banking attitude that they had for so long? Greed, I suppose, just like the rest of them.
On a brighter note, I guess we all get free insurance now as we just bought AIG. Think I'll call them when we get phones back and ask for my coverage and explain that as a taxpayer I just paid them 85 Billion $ for my premiums. If nothing else, I can waste some of their valuable time with an agent.
What many of us knew for years was going to happen is now happening. I had thought that it would be in '09 as the Fed always props things up in an election year. Only a matter of time till real assests and real money, like gold and silver finally come to the fore and those of us who planned for this are going to be quite comfortable. We ain't seen nothing yet!
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<<<Almost ALL commodities have been manipulated. EVERYTHING should go down, because the wealthy speculators/hedge funds will want out. Don't try to match Gold with the Dollar now. It's anyones guess. I think NOW-
GLOBAL slowdown will help the U.S. dollar, hurt oil/gold. You watch... >>> September 15th
Boy I hate being right some of the time!!!
I think this will CONTINUE for some time. Gold could test 3-year lows, along with the other metals/commodities. THE RISE OF THE DOLLAR hurts oil/gold, but it is NOT THAT OUR ECONOMY IS ANY BETTER, we are just not as bad (today) as the rest of the globe.
<< <i>To those that were proclaiming they'd be buying in at $850 gold, then $800, then $750, and finally $650-$750, I sincerely hope you didn't get too greedy and miss the boat once again.
Consider me greedy ... I'll wait for a bottom, may it bee $400 or $650...Not going to get cought up in the doomsday buying scenarios...
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
To those that were proclaiming they'd be buying in at $850 gold, then $800, then $750, and finally $650-$750, I sincerely hope you didn't get too greedy and miss the boat once again. $100 move in gold in 2 days is pretty intense. Incredible actually at this point even with the massive bank tank-down that we all know occurred (forget the no manipulation crap). But what gets tanken down quickly can rise just as quick.
Nope, they didn't miss the boat on that move. But according to Storm888 they lost money by not getting in on that move....his words not mine. But they still haven't bought and apparently have totally "changed" their minds about buying. Just a note that those who preach, and then don't follow through on their written convictions, don't really have any strong convictions imo.
They seem to be remaing sound, but it could all be hype. >>
It's Hong Kong Shanghai bank and think it's the 2nd largest bank in the world ( least it was at one point). Great bank by the way. >>
Huh. I googled it to be sure and came up with Singapore. Oh well.
They were originally started by a Scotsman and have remained fairly close to Scottish banking principles.
I don't think too highly of them, but then each has their own experiences to judge from.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
When I googled HSBC awhile back I recall coming up with Benefit Finance, and other older name brands that were all merged over the years. HSBC is out of Scotland, UK but they have a North America branch and are probably all over the world. My computer is too slow to regoogle this all over again.
<< <i><<<Almost ALL commodities have been manipulated. EVERYTHING should go down, because the wealthy speculators/hedge funds will want out. Don't try to match Gold with the Dollar now. It's anyones guess. I think NOW-
GLOBAL slowdown will help the U.S. dollar, hurt oil/gold. You watch... >>> September 15th
Boy I hate being right some of the time!!!
I think this will CONTINUE for some time. Gold could test 3-year lows, along with the other metals/commodities. THE RISE OF THE DOLLAR hurts oil/gold, but it is NOT THAT OUR ECONOMY IS ANY BETTER, we are just not as bad (today) as the rest of the globe. >>
Well, you're on the money(no pun intended) there.
Yeah, as much trouble as our economy is in, and the politicians are just prolonging it and that will make it much, much worse in the final tally, the sad scary fact is that the rest of the world is in much worse shape.
Some might say this sort of situation leads to wars, maybe even big wars. Again, we win in any conflict, but the damage world-wide will be horrible.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Yeah, as much trouble as our economy is in, and the politicians are just prolonging it and that will make it much, much worse in the final tally, the sad scary fact is that the rest of the world is in much worse shape.
Some might say this sort of situation leads to wars, maybe even big wars. Again, we win in any conflict, but the damage world-wide will be horrible. >>
Yep, global contraction...then some countries percieve weakness and take what they want. Wars over oil, no doubt. Someone wants Israel wiped off some maps. A few countries and economies collapse. Global restructuring begets Bretton II hampering the USA. Certain countries get caught napping in self pity as a New Order (not the band) passes them by. Some countries get overcome by mass inflation. People starve. Race riots. Other than that, it looks all right.
Comments
GLOBAL slowdown will help the U.S. dollar, hurt oil/gold. You watch...
roadrunner
1. Banks are hoarding cash and not lending except to guaranteed returns so no risk, no growth.
2. Economic growth has slowed and will continue to slow so no expansion; it will take a good while to recover from this.
3. "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" Herbert Hoover, 1928. Excellent campaign slogan, hummmmm.
4. Physical Metal is valuable. All those anti-PM/Rah Rah equities talking heads...probably looking for a job like the MSNBC anchors (see, we were right). Which would you rather have, gold that you paid $800/oz for and is worth $800 now or a few hundred shares of Freddie mac that you paid $30 for a few months ago and is now worth 37 cents a share? Gold is good.
5. Bank stocks...wait, but if you can pick the three survivors you can maybe recoup some losses here.
6. Energy stocks-buy them cheap; all God's children need energy but watch out for underfunded juniors. The problem with energy is the more growth and expansion there is, the more energy that is required and the more expensive it becomes because of demand. Consequently, with global growth slowing and expansion slowing, energy will be more available and cost less so maybe this is a good time to watch the prices recede before jumping in.
7. Two most safe positions: Physical metal and cash; all the rest are pretenders or a crap shoot.
8. The first thing that happens to stressed companies...sell hard assets (dump metal).
9. Roaring 20's then the 30's great depression, exhuberant 90's then what ever is next. Methinks history is repeating itself (see #7 above).Equities chart
10. Unemployment is rising and will continue to rise significantly and there is nothing that can be done about it if the govt. doesn't want to institute work programs for unemployed. 592,000 lost their jobs last month (bureau of labor statistics)
11. The credit providers are probably checking to see how long they will last with many people choosing to have electricity and a car instead of a good credit history with the issuers...doo dah, your predatory practices killed off your food source...what to do, doo dah, doo dah. Flush
At some point, people will see that holding your own metal and cash is a good plan, ala 1930, funny how history repeats itself. The worry is that we assume the public in general to be completely clueless and will swim into the mullet net but maybe not, maybe this will be the clarion to get a plan and pay attention to your stuff.
Now, on the other hand there is a sociological twist to this. The gulf of separation between those that have wealth, good income producing jobs and those that wish they had those things is going to be greater. Help where you can but remember to take care of yourself and your family first. There's going to be a lot of begging and crying before we see nice growth again. 501 C-3 organization donations are good for a tax credit, give where you can but get your letter of donation from the receipient.
7) yes
there is a lot of belt tightening going on, up and down the classes, except for maybe the elite rich, but now it isn't "cool" to drive a Range Rover to Safeway, more like a Prius....
Sure Roadrunner. Another example is the mid-90's (the "Asian Crisis").
<<Two most safe positions: Physical metal and cash;>>
I agree - but there are risks for these two of course - storage of gold, inflation risk/currency risk of cash...
neighbors and friends that know you got these two!!!
Who said the FED was not going to hand out any money to Lehman?
JPMorgan Gave Lehman $138 Billion After Bankruptcy
Sept. 16 (Bloomberg) -- JPMorgan Chase & Co. gave $138 billion this week in Federal Reserve-backed advances to the broker dealer unit of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. to settle Lehman trades and keep financial markets stable amid the biggest bankruptcy in history, according to a court filing. One advance of $87 billion was made on Sept. 15 after the pre-dawn bankruptcy filing, and another of $51 billion was made today, Lehman said in court documents. Both advances were made to settle securities transactions with customers of Lehman and its clearance parties, according to the filing. The advances were necessary ``to avoid a disruption of the financial markets,'' Lehman said in the filing.
The first advance was repaid by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York on the night of Sept. 15, Lehman said. JPMorgan said in a statement that the $51 billion advance was also repaid and the process will zero out the advances at the end of each day. ....
Everything neatly rezeroed. You have to spank them zeroes to keep them in line when they get feisty. Everything fixed. Carry on.
roadrunner
Sinclair was suggesting $90 BILL needed to make the deal. It may only cost $85 BILL. For those insured via AIG does this mean you can cease paying premiums? Why bother paying yourself??
roadrunner
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
A year ago he told me that AIG was getting far too over extended in that area.
They were losing money hand over fist and kept selling policies too cheap, I suppose they figured they would make it up in volume.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I had moved all of my clients to cash and bonds. 15% exposure to the markets, which is STILL too high.
I thought gold and other commodites would suffer because of global slowdown, but I own more gold (coins) than what I have in stocks. (well not tough to beat - almost NOTHING in stocks).
Anyways, I DO want gold to go up, which it is doing today in a "take no prisoners" way!!! I am though shocked. But thrilled. I should have listened to Brian years ago - would have saved my clients a ton more from the greedy wall street markets...
Good observation. Things are moving fast and furious today.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>For once, I am on Brian (roadrunners) side:
I had moved all of my clients to cash and bonds. 15% exposure to the markets, which is STILL too high.
I thought gold and other commodites would suffer because of global slowdown, but I own more gold (coins) than what I have in stocks. (well not tough to beat - almost NOTHING in stocks).
Anyways, I DO want gold to go up, which it is doing today in a "take no prisoners" way!!! I am though shocked. But thrilled. I should have listened to Brian years ago - would have saved my clients a ton more from the greedy wall street markets... >>
Welcome to the shiney side, Lloyd.
Brian and I will always say you are a man of your word. (personal inside dealings)
Yeah, I'm sure we also own more gold than stocks.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Seems to me part of the rise might have been a liquidation of short postions of gold and long positions of oil. Gee, I wonder who that could be
My CNY currency went from 37 to 29.50 and back to 38+. Someone...unloaded...obviously forced out of the market. Did I have the nerve to step in and buy some in the low 30s? Of course not.
down, we can all stop worrying.
Because there will be nothing left to fail.
Camelot
Hong Kong - Singapore Bank.
Probably the largest left or very close to BofA.
They seem to be remaing sound, but it could all be hype.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Wachovia, too
<< <i>WAMU is looking for a buyer......
Wachovia, too
WaMu has been looking. They are one of the next to fail.
I figured they would already be gone by now. If BofA turned them down, they are about to be toast.
Citigroup is the one that is going to fold and bring the real Hellstorm. They arent that far away.
I found this straw outside, it was on a camel. His back was broken, it was the last one.........
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>WAMU is looking for a buyer......
Wachovia, too
BofA already owns 60% of Wachovia, they will just gobble them up once and for all very soon for the last few pennies on the dollar.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
>>>>The depth of the money-market problems became clear at lunchtime in London, when the British Bankers' Association published Tuesday's Libor borrowing costs. Every day, 16 banks report what it would cost them to borrow at certain maturities and currencies. Overnight dollar Libor soared to 6.4375% from 3.10625%, the largest jump on record. Three-month dollar Libor rose to 2.876% from 2.816%. Big global banks such as Bank of America, Credit Suisse Group, UBS, Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC and others reported overnight borrowing costs of 6% or higher in dollars, compared with 3% just a day earlier.<<<<
WSJ somewhere online today
None of us have come here for the past 4 years to profit at other's expense. We don't need to line up more people with us to make our bets more likely to come in. We've just felt from our hearts what was going to play out. The worst volatility and pain is way down the road as these credit derivatives are just beginning to unwind. Sinclair says that Lehman stating under $1 TRILLION in derivatives exposure is pure bunk. They have TRILLIONS to unwind with many of those totally worthless. And he has said many times that when you fail, derivative's notional value becomes actual value. 100%...the whole enchildada. In other words you and your counter party are cooked.
HSBC may not have as many total bets as the bigger Citi, JPM, etc. but they are leveraged at 6:1 credit derivatives to assets. That puts them at the top of the heap and squarely in harm's way to eventually go down.
You can bet that Goldman is on the right side of the current move up in gold just like when they shorted MBS's. Funny how they played those.
To those that were proclaiming they'd be buying in at $850 gold, then $800, then $750, and finally $650-$750, I sincerely hope you didn't get too greedy and miss the boat once again. $100 move in gold in 2 days is pretty intense. Incredible actually at this point even with the massive bank tank-down that we all know occurred (forget the no manipulation crap). But what gets tanken down quickly can rise just as quick.
roadrunner
We already knew the PPT could help knock gold down $100 over several days. Now we know the opposite is true. This same lesson was learned when gold was $400 and the PPT would NOT allow gold to move up more than $6-9 a day. That occurred for a few years when finally gold had it's first $10 day! It seemed like such a big step - a daily double digit move! Then we got a $20 day, etc, etc. Baby steps but each step with less and less cartel control. Eventually we will see a $200 day move - up or down, possibly much more. And that means $20-$30 oil moves too. The fact that the cartel allowed this to happen is big news.
roadrunner
<< <i>That kind of volatility sounds like ambrosia to paper traders, which I don't think will make deadhorse too happy! >>
I don't have any problem with paper traders who deal in real assets, as long as the commodity is actually there to start with.
Things like soybeans, wheat, oil, all the regular commodities.
My problem is with the paper metal creators. There is no jurisdiction there. There is probably more paper silver than there is physical silver on the planet, but I'm sure the books are cooked and there is no way to know, there is no doubt that they don't own anywhere near the silver to back the paper thay have printed.
That's the crime! I want to see SLV digging up graves and pulling out the fillings from corpses to produce the real thing they claim they have and freely trade and manipulate. They are essentially printing money, counterfeit money with little backing, I believe that by law only Congress can authorize the printing of money.
Anyone who buys into them is hurting the real investors. They aren't selling silver, ask for your silver and see what it costs you to pry it from their greedy fingers. It's cheaper to just buy the physical to start with. If everybody asked for their real silver, they would go belly up overnight and off to prison for fraud. Also, for those who buy and sell it, don't forget your 28% tax on any profits. It's not treated like stock by the IRS. You may fool them for a while, but it will catch up to you.
You are really only buying a share of a bet on the spot price, one they have shown they can manipulate. How foolish do you have to be to put your portfolio there? Does anybody remember or has studied what happened to paper silver owners in 1980? I was there, I remember, they deserved what they got. With SLV, you are really getting into a derivatives game, not buying silver. If it looks like a duck, etc. When the hammer falls, the Government isn't going to bail out individual investors.
I wasn't aware that HSBC was that far out on a limb. I guess what I have read really was hype. I had thought it was only leveraged at around 2:1. What happened to the Scottish banking attitude that they had for so long? Greed, I suppose, just like the rest of them.
On a brighter note, I guess we all get free insurance now as we just bought AIG. Think I'll call them when we get phones back and ask for my coverage and explain that as a taxpayer I just paid them 85 Billion $ for my premiums. If nothing else, I can waste some of their valuable time with an agent.
What many of us knew for years was going to happen is now happening. I had thought that it would be in '09 as the Fed always props things up in an election year. Only a matter of time till real assests and real money, like gold and silver finally come to the fore and those of us who planned for this are going to be quite comfortable. We ain't seen nothing yet!
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
GLOBAL slowdown will help the U.S. dollar, hurt oil/gold. You watch... >>> September 15th
Boy I hate being right some of the time!!!
I think this will CONTINUE for some time. Gold could test 3-year lows, along with the other metals/commodities. THE RISE OF THE DOLLAR hurts oil/gold, but it is NOT THAT OUR ECONOMY IS ANY BETTER, we are just not as bad (today) as the rest of the globe.
<< <i>To those that were proclaiming they'd be buying in at $850 gold, then $800, then $750, and finally $650-$750, I sincerely hope you didn't get too greedy and miss the boat once again.
Consider me greedy ... I'll wait for a bottom, may it bee $400 or $650...Not going to get cought up in the doomsday buying scenarios...
<< <i>HSBC
Hong Kong - Singapore Bank.
Probably the largest left or very close to BofA.
They seem to be remaing sound, but it could all be hype. >>
It's Hong Kong Shanghai bank and think it's the 2nd largest bank in the world ( least it was at one point). Great bank by the way.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Nope, they didn't miss the boat on that move. But according to Storm888 they lost money by not getting in on that move....his words not mine. But they still haven't bought and apparently have totally "changed" their minds about buying. Just a note that those who preach, and then don't follow through on their written convictions, don't really have any strong convictions imo.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>HSBC
Hong Kong - Singapore Bank.
Probably the largest left or very close to BofA.
They seem to be remaing sound, but it could all be hype. >>
It's Hong Kong Shanghai bank and think it's the 2nd largest bank in the world ( least it was at one point). Great bank by the way. >>
Huh. I googled it to be sure and came up with Singapore. Oh well.
They were originally started by a Scotsman and have remained fairly close to Scottish banking principles.
I don't think too highly of them, but then each has their own experiences to judge from.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
roadrunner
<< <i><<<Almost ALL commodities have been manipulated. EVERYTHING should go down, because the wealthy speculators/hedge funds will want out. Don't try to match Gold with the Dollar now. It's anyones guess. I think NOW-
GLOBAL slowdown will help the U.S. dollar, hurt oil/gold. You watch... >>> September 15th
Boy I hate being right some of the time!!!
I think this will CONTINUE for some time. Gold could test 3-year lows, along with the other metals/commodities. THE RISE OF THE DOLLAR hurts oil/gold, but it is NOT THAT OUR ECONOMY IS ANY BETTER, we are just not as bad (today) as the rest of the globe. >>
Well, you're on the money(no pun intended) there.
Yeah, as much trouble as our economy is in, and the politicians are just prolonging it and that will make it much, much worse in the final tally, the sad scary fact is that the rest of the world is in much worse shape.
Some might say this sort of situation leads to wars, maybe even big wars. Again, we win in any conflict, but the damage world-wide will be horrible.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Well, you're on the money(no pun intended) there.
Yeah, as much trouble as our economy is in, and the politicians are just prolonging it and that will make it much, much worse in the final tally, the sad scary fact is that the rest of the world is in much worse shape.
Some might say this sort of situation leads to wars, maybe even big wars. Again, we win in any conflict, but the damage world-wide will be horrible. >>
Yep, global contraction...then some countries percieve weakness and take what they want. Wars over oil, no doubt. Someone wants Israel wiped off some maps. A few countries and economies collapse. Global restructuring begets Bretton II hampering the USA. Certain countries get caught napping in self pity as a New Order (not the band) passes them by. Some countries get overcome by mass inflation. People starve. Race riots. Other than that, it looks all right.
Ren
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