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The Most Overrated Player in Baseball........
SeatedCoin
Posts: 1,040
in Sports Talk
just passed Babe Ruth last night on the Yankee All Time Hit List....2520 and counting. If everything goes as planned he should pass #1 Lou Gehrig in September of 2009 in the new stadium. How fitting, The new stadium will be called The House that ______ Built
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
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PS: I'm sorry this happened to you
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Dave
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
more strikeouts than walks, single digit homeruns, might get 20 doubles... and OPS about .750 come on.
I'd be curious to know if anyone can look it up: who has the least amount of extra base hits in a 200+ hit season? Is Ichiro on pace to obliterate the record?
<< <i>I'd be curious to know if anyone can look it up: who has the least amount of extra base hits in a 200+ hit season? Is Ichiro on pace to obliterate the record? >>
You have to go back to the deadest part of the deadball era, when hitting the ball out of the infield was considered a feat of strength. to find many players with numbers that look anything like Ichiro's. Wee Willie Keeler got 29 extra base hits, and 175 singles, in 1900. Ichiro will probably not break that record; with 18 games left he will probably get the three extra base hits he needs to pass Keeler. But he also may not, and if he only passes him by one he will tie Matty Alou for the "modern" record of 30.
If Ichiro makes the HOF someday, he will be a very legitimate contender for all-time most overrated player, a title currently held by George Sisler who was very similar to Ichiro but better.
Jeter, on the other hand, is overpaid but generally underrated. The two are not the same thing.
"Jeter, on the other hand, is overpaid but generally underrated. The two are not the same thing."
I am going to sue! I was laughing so hard when I read that Jeter is underrated that I fell out of my chair and injured myself.
Yeah, it's true. And if Jeter had been the Red Sox Shortstop since his Rookie year in 1996, I guarantee you that the Red Sox would not have had to wait for their 1st title in 86 years. In fact they probably would have another 2 or 3. As Mel Allen used to say "How about that!!!!"
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
<< <i>the entire yankee team is overated and over paid. but thats ok they,ll be taking vacation soon. >>
And the entire Mets team still plays second fiddle to the Yankees no matter how bad the Bronx Bombers are.
<< <i>
<< <i>the entire yankee team is overated and over paid. but thats ok they,ll be taking vacation soon. >>
And the entire Mets team still plays second fiddle to the Yankees no matter how bad the Bronx Bombers are. >>
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I'll 3rd Ichiro....yes he is decent in the field...but I'll take a .280 hitter with decent power over his 200+ singles/year
If he does eventually make the hall.....it will be for pure stats and thats all.
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<< <i>Jeter is overshadowed by arod for sure.......he is very solid and certainly not overrated.
I'll 3rd Ichiro....yes he is decent in the field...but I'll take a .280 hitter with decent power over his 200+ singles/year
If he does eventually make the hall.....it will be for pure stats and thats all. >>
Oh, yeah. How could I forget about the other one. Too bad that the Red Sox didn't get him in 2004 for they surely would never have won their 1st championship in 86 years.
It's simply amazing how some people can say Jeter is overrated when he just broke a record of Babe Ruth, who many consider the best player ever!!!!
What really annoys me about ARod is he came crawling back to the Yankees after he opted out of his contract. Hank Steinbrenner had no backbone and could have surely gotten him for less $ because Ii don't think any team would have even paid him even $25 Million for 10 years.
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
<< <i>Isn't Jeter the 2nd best SS on the Yanks? >>
Yes, he is. And he is underrated. Judging by this board, he is the most underrated player of all time, but I don't think Jeter Derangement Syndrome is as widespread everywhere else.
Or maybe it's Yankee Derangement Syndrome, because if there is a contender for most underrated on this board, it would have to be A-Rod - BY FAR the best player of our time, and year in and year out the best player in the AL, including this year. Of Aaron, Mantle and Mays, it is still very much a possibility that Rodriguz will pass all three on the greatest players ever list; he has probably already passed Aaron. Calling someone a worse shortstop than A-Rod is about the mildest insult I can imagine.
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<< <i>
if there is a contender for most underrated on this board, it would have to be A-Rod - BY FAR the best player of our time, and year in and year out the best player in the AL, including this year. . >>
This gentlemen obviously has not watched many Yankee games this year. AROD has been the worst performer in the American League this year. I'll agree with you that he puts up nice numbers. I'll agree that many of the Yankees have decent numbers. Look, they are supposed to do that. They are the Yankees. The Yankee owners buy very good ballplayers, and they're supposed to perform at a certain level. Arod has hit into more DP's, or pop outs in CLUTCH situations then any other ballplayer this entire year. Listen, he is being routinely booed in his own park, by his own fans. He's being booed because he's underperformed the whole year. He really SUCKS when the game is on the line. Yeah, he goes 3-5 when his team wins or loses 10-1, but when there is a close game he always SUCKS.
<< <i><<Isn't Jeter the 2nd best SS on the Yanks?>>
Oh, yeah. How could I forget about the other one. Too bad that the Red Sox didn't get him in 2004 for they surely would never have won their 1st championship in 86 years.
It's simply amazing how some people can say Jeter is overrated when he just broke a record of Babe Ruth, who many consider the best player ever!!!!
What really annoys me about ARod is he came crawling back to the Yankees after he opted out of his contract. Hank Steinbrenner had no backbone and could have surely gotten him for less $ because Ii don't think any team would have even paid him even $25 Million for 10 years. >>
I didn't understand that either. Bad business decision to give Arod a raise when a pay cut was likely do-able.
jeter would have to play 15 more years to equal the impact of Babe Ruth.
People are equating this 'accomplishment' of passing Ruth in hits as if it makes him comparable somehow to him. Had he passed him in lifetime SLG%, then you may get my attention! Otherwise, it has little meaning.
For the record, Arod has been terrible this year in High LEverage situations, and very good in Low Leverage Situations.
However, for his career he has performed equally in both HIGH and LOW leverage situations.
Jeter has performed a little better in High leverage, but poor in Very High Leverage. In Late/Close at bats he hasn't done so great. Arod is also low in Late/Close performance for his career.
I put in a vote for Andruw Jones and the Most Overated Player in Baseball. Never mind that doesn't count since everyone knows he sucks. lol
<< <i>
I put in a vote for Andruw Jones and the Most Overated Player in Baseball. Never mind that doesn't count since everyone knows he sucks. lol >>
how often does a player not even hit for an average at least equal to his weight?
<< <i>how often does a player not even hit for an average at least equal to his weight? >>
If the idea that being the Yankees all-time hit leader is some sort of ultimate expression of greatness that would be extremely overrated
<< <i> Arod is also low in Late/Close performance for his career. >>
Just to be clear, an OPS of .914 is not "low", it is outstanding. It is a bit lower than the stndard that A-Rod has established over the course of his career, yes, but it is not low. Compare it to Jim Rice's .790 or Mike Schmidt's .890 to get a little perspective. For his career, A-Rod is much better in RISP and Men On situations than he is in none on situations, and his bases loaded performance is just absurdly great. The notion that he falls apart in "clutch" situations is 99% silliness, and is almost entirely a result of the standards unreasonable fans have set for him in their minds - which is that he needs to be as good as Ruth or they will boo him. He's not as good as Ruth; by the time he hangs it up, Ruth may be the only player ever that A-Rod was not as good as.
<< <i>....In Late/Close at bats he hasn't done so great. Arod is also low in Late/Close performance for his career. >>
Is there not usually a slight dip in most cases for late/close stats with a big enough sample?
It seems like most teams have decent 8th/9th inning type of pitchers and stats would normally go down a small bit.
His performance is lower compared to his performance in other situations. What it means(and what I was implying/saying), is that when looking at his overall numbers they are worth a smidge less when compared to somebody else with the similar numbers who has hit BETTER in Late/Close. In other words, the other player would have won a few more games.
But Arod's performance is still excellent in those Late/Close situations with a career OPS of .906. Jeter's career Late/Close OPS is .806.
SO Arod has actually come through MORE than Jeter....but just not as much as himself in other situations.
But Arod isn't as good as a guy like Vlad with a .964 in Late/Close, nor Bonds(.990 w/ some non live ball years), nor Pujols at 1.062 though not many years.
I do want to return the clarifying favor though. Arod's career percentages are done in the live ball era, as compared to Rice or Schmidt. Those numbers still have to be looked at in context...and Arod has not gone through his inevitable down phase as Rice and Schmidt(though Rice never had any old man years either of course as he was finished by 35).
Yes, I put Bonds on the list, but I am not any more confident that Arod was/is enhancer free than I am Bonds was.
Decent? What game are you watching????
Dave
<< <i>Is Bill Mazeroski... >>
Touche.....
And I know I covered a lot of ground with the word, but I did say that A-Rod "may" finish behind only Ruth on the All-Time list; he needs to have a long, slow decline phase to achieve that, but he "may" do it. I do stand by my opinion that A-Rod is underrated - at least on this board. Unless his career ends next year, he will ultimately compare very well to Aaron, Gehrig and Musial and this fantasy that he has been some kind of bum in the clutch makes it sound like people want to compare him unfavorably to Jim freakin' Rice.
What if one of the top 10 players in MLB history played his entire career right in front of your face and you missed it? It's sad, really.
However, because he is so hi profile every time he GIDP, pops up late or K's when the game is on the line
it gets magnified. Hoopster threw around stats that contradicted stats that were presented in that yahoo article.
Were the Hoopster stats from his entire career? The yahoo article was strictly A-Rod in NY.
Again, perception can be a bad thing and perhaps you guys are correct.
The fact remains though he has never won anywhere, and teams seemed to improve after he left them.
Coincidence?
The fact he opted out of that contract last year and the time he tried to slap the ball out of the pitchers hand
also shows him not in the greatest of lights.
IMO and it is only my opinion he may be a great ballplayer but he is not a Ruth, Aaron, Mays or Musial.
Steve
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Trying to blame one position player - or credit one position player - for making or not making the playoffs just doesn't make any sense. A-Rod has spent his entire career playing with pitching staffs that were nowhere close to World Series quality. That's the entire story. And forget Ernie Banks, the better analogy is Ted Williams since A-Rod is closer to Williams than Banks. Sometimes great players play on less than great teams. Mock Steinbrenner all you want for what he pays his players - he deserves it - but the current Yankees are not a great team and there is nothing more A-Rod could do to make it one.
<< <i>Ichiro does not play for the Yankees. >>
Amen, brother.
That makes sense, logically, and all yr points are valid ones, but in a sport whose followers acre called "fans" short for "fanatics" logic takes a backseat to winning, and Arod is the Dan Marino of baseball to this point. Who knows? Maybe he's got an Elway finish in store for him, though Elway was also perceived as "clutch" by football fans, even before he managed to win those two Super Bowls.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
"On a statistical front, Jeter had a doubleheader to remember, stroking three hits in the first game and three more in the nightcap. That gave him 1,266 for his career at Yankee Stadium, closing within three hits of Lou Gehrig's all-time mark of 1,269 with eight regular-season games remaining in the Bronx."
Linky
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
<< <i> 3 more hits away from a record which will never be broken
"On a statistical front, Jeter had a doubleheader to remember, stroking three hits in the first game and three more in the nightcap. That gave him 1,266 for his career at Yankee Stadium, closing within three hits of Lou Gehrig's all-time mark of 1,269 with eight regular-season games remaining in the Bronx." >>
I'm happy to see Jeter should be the all time hits leader, but wouldn't that be cool if Jeter tied Gehrig and stay tied at 1269 hits. That would seem like a good way to close down the stadium.
<< <i> 3 more hits away from a record which will never be broken
"On a statistical front, Jeter had a doubleheader to remember, stroking three hits in the first game and three more in the nightcap. That gave him 1,266 for his career at Yankee Stadium, closing within three hits of Lou Gehrig's all-time mark of 1,269 with eight regular-season games remaining in the Bronx."
Linky >>
Well it sure looks like it will happen this week. The earlier the better. It will be an awesome thing to witness in an otherwise very disappointing season. Jeter is back to a .303 BA so I guess he is quieting down the Jeter is done crowd as well.
Of course you neglected to mention Jeter who by the way had 6 hits yesterday and raised his average over 300.
Steve
Jeter has had some great years, but this isnt one of them. Definitely had some nagging injuries the first half. If he can remain healthy and productive he will finish with stellar numbers. I dont think Jeter is either over or underrated.
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."