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C.C. Sabathia - No Cy Young, But He'll Take The MVP
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
C.C. Sabathia has virtually no chance of winning the Cy Young over Brandon Webb, but I think he has a decent chance of winning the MVP. After today's performance (9 ininngs, 1 controversial hit, 0 runs and 11 strikeouts), how can anybody argue against his value to the Brewers.
I just want to know if he tells the bullpen on the days he starts to grab dinner early and he'll meet them at the restaurant. In 11 starts (99 possible innings), Sabathia has pitched 88 innings, a nice 88.9% clip.
/s/ JackWESQ
I just want to know if he tells the bullpen on the days he starts to grab dinner early and he'll meet them at the restaurant. In 11 starts (99 possible innings), Sabathia has pitched 88 innings, a nice 88.9% clip.
/s/ JackWESQ
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Link to yahoo game log
tons of wins against the POS western division, pirates a few times, washington nats a couple times, atlanta... all in all, almost all pathetic, except for 1 against the phils and mets who are of debatable strength.
Im not saying you dont just play the people in front of you, Im saying CC has a MONSTER chance at the NL cy young if he runs the table.
Guy pitches a one hitter and they protest the game. Here are some classy comments about a 20 year vet score keeper from Yost
<< <i>He accomplished a no-hitter and wasn’t given what he deserved. That should have been a no-hitter,” Yost said. “That’s a stinking no-hitter we all got cheated from. I feel horrible for CC.” >>
<< <i>That’s a joke. That wasn’t even close. Whoever the scorekeeper was absolutely denied major league baseball a nice no-hitter right there,” Yost said. “They threw hit up on the board even before LaRoche hit the bag. That’s a play CC makes easily, throws him out by 10 feet—to me it’s a no-brainer. >>
However there is the other side of the story
<< <i>Despite the Brewers’ protests, the play in question is often called a hit and fielders often get angry when they are called for errors on easier plays. The Associated Press polled eight writers from both cities who have reported on the majors for 10 years or more, and six would have called it a hit. >>
And from the scorers own mouth
<< <i>“The way the ball came off the bat, it was spinning, and it went to the left of the mound with a left-handed pitcher going to get it. It’s a difficult play,” Webb said. “The definition requires standard effort, and that would have taken more than an ordinary effort. The runner was well down the line.” >>
Real classy way to win Brewers
those are the teams YOU HAVE to beat.
Steve
dregs of the baseball world.
Link to same for CC
San Diego
Cincinatti
Colorado
San Francisco
St. Louis (winning record)
Atlanta
Washington
Houston (winning record)
Pittsburgh
Only 2 wins against teams with winning records, what a loser
<< <i>C.C. Sabathia has virtually no chance of winning the Cy Young over Brandon Webb, but ... >>
Neither Sabathia nor Webb is gonna win it. Tim Lincecum will win the Cy Young. Lincecum has the best numbers by far.
Charlie
He'll face the Rockies twice, the D-Backs twice, and the Padres once. He's 5-1 (with 5 no-decisions) against these teams, but has dominated them since the AS break. The only question is, will the Giants give him the run support he needs? If they can't then Lincecum can easly end up getting ripped off with 5 no-decisions.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>If Lincecum wins it, I will be incredibly surprised. Giving the Cy Young to the best pitcher in the league, when an inferior pitcher won more games? It's almost unheard of in the history of the award. >>
In 2007, CC won the AL Cy Young award with 19 wins, while Josh Beckett finished with 20 wins.
In 2005, Chris Carpenter won the NL CYA with 21 wins, while Dontrelle Willis finished with 22 wins.
In 2004, Roger Clemens won the NL CYA with 18 wins, while Roy Oswalt finished with 20 wins.
In 2000, Pedro Martinez won the AL CYA with 18 wins, while Tim Hudson and David Wells both had 20 wins.
The list goes on. It's not unheard of. Total victories doesn't always tell the story.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>1 controversial hit
Guy pitches a one hitter and they protest the game. Here are some classy comments about a 20 year vet score keeper from Yost >>
Anyone who knows me well knows that I don't like Ned Yost as the manager of the Brewers. I think the team is winning games in spite of him and losing games because of him. That's a different topic for a different thread, though, so I'll stick to the hijacked topic rather than hijacking in a different direction.
I agree with Ned here. Watch the play again. The runner wasn't even halfway down the line when CC dropped the ball. If he had used his glove to pick the ball, he would have gotten him out. Don't forget that the man has a cannon hanging from his left shoulder.
Ultimately, the league will decide this and their decision will be final. I hope they overturn the score keeper's call, but if they don't, I can live with it. A win is a win. A no-hitter goes down in history. In fact, if the hit is overturned by the league and changed to an error, it would be the first time in the history of the game that a no-hitter has been awarded after the fact. The Brewers won an appeal to the league earlier in the season. I didn't even know you could do that.
At the end of the day, Ned Yost earned a little bit of my respect for standing behind his player like this. Many have been complaining about the number of innings that Ned leaves CC in there and are saying he is being careless and treating CC like a "rental". I think this very situation proves that Ned actually cares about his players. I've never doubted that...after all, you have to care about somebody a whole lot to keep a guy like Ray Durham on the bench and put the human-error-machine Rickie Weeks at second base.
To the original topic, I would say that you should never say never when it comes to CC getting the Cy Young. It has happened before, so why not here? The guy has started 11 games for the Brewers and is 9-0 with 6 complete games and 3 shutouts. In 3 of the other wins he only gave up 1 run. He has a 1.43 ERA with the Brewers.
Also, don't discount his full season statistics. He is now 15-8 with a 2.82 ERA. His WHIP is 1.13 and he has 208 strikeouts. Brandon Webb is 19-6 with a 3.19 ERA. His WHIP is 1.17 and he has 160 strikeouts. CC has given up 2 fewer runs in 18 1/3 more innings. I would say that CC is an obvious contender for the award here.
Then again, back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back perfect games and 135 consecutive men retired can sway a lot of votes.
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>The list goes on. It's not unheard of. Total victories doesn't always tell the story. >>
Point taken, but if we throw out the years where a reliever won the award (no reliever has ever been the best pitcher in the league), which list do you think would be longer, yours or the one where the inferior wins leader won it?
And notice that all of the pitchers on your sample list were either 1 or 2 behind in wins. Webb is 4 up on Lincecum; I will be very surprised, and impressed, if Lincecum wins the Award, unless Webb falters and lets Lincecum get at least two wins closer than he is.
<< <i>Point taken, but if we throw out the years where a reliever won the award (no reliever has ever been the best pitcher in the league), which list do you think would be longer, yours or the one where the inferior wins leader won it? >>
Here we go, stat time.
Historically, yes, the league leader in wins usually wins the award.
In 94 total Cy Young awards given,
57 have been given to league leaders in wins.
28 have been given to guys who were not the league leaders in wins.
9 have been given to relievers.
However, in the past 10 years, the trend changed drastically..
In 20 total Cy Young Awards given since 1998
10 have been given to league leaders in wins.
9 have been given to guys who were NOT the league leaders in wins.
1 was given to a reliever.
I'm not suggesting that if Lincecum was deactivated today that he'd win the award. However, if he guts out the last 5 games with the same stuff he's been bringing since the AS break, he's got a solid chance of shining far brighter than his win total. Keep in mind that the pathetic Giants bullpin has been responsible for converting 6 of his win situations into no-decisions for him so far this season. The writers have already been taking note of that.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
The overall subject made me curious about pitchers who have won both awards in the same season. Below is the list of 7 pitchers who have achieved the feat. I never realized that in 1968 they had a dual winner in both leagues!
1992 - Dennis Eckersley (RP) 7-1, 1.91 ERA, 93 K, 51 Saves
1986 - Roger Clemens (SP) 24-4, 2.48 ERA, 238 K
1981 - Rollie Fingers (RP) 6-3, 1.04 ERA, 61 K, 28 Saves
1968 - Denny McLain (SP) 31-6, 1.96 ERA, 280 K
1968 - Bob Gibson (SP) 22-9, 1.12 ERA, 268 K
1963 - Sandy Koufax (SP) 25-5, 1.88 ERA, 306 K
1956 - Don Newcombe (SP) 27-7, 3.06 ERA, 139 K
He never wants to face Boston in the ALCS again. Too many nightmares.
If they somehow beat out the Cubs and win the division he may get even more votes.
At one point in time I thought it was Chipper Jones to lose but now he is not
even leading the league anymore, or at least he wasn't the last time I looked.
Pujols is having another MVP type season so I'm sure he will get some votes too.
Steve
When the Yankees throw $25m/yr at him, he will quickly forget about those "nightmares". We better start accepting the fact now that Sabathia is a Yankee next year. There won't be a better top 3 in baseball than CC, Joba, and Wang, either.
<< <i><<<C.C. will never come back to the AL East. He likes the cozy comforts of the NL. He never wants to face Boston in the ALCS again. Too many nightmares. >>>
When the Yankees throw $25m/yr at him, he will quickly forget about those "nightmares". We better start accepting the fact now that Sabathia is a Yankee next year. There won't be a better top 3 in baseball than CC, Joba, and Wang, either. >>
I wonder if CC will go back to the AL. He's clearly one of the best, if not the best, NL pitchers. In addition to millions of dollars, certainly he's got to be looking for "validation" of his skills -- which is abundantly available in the NL
With that said, I don't think C.C. will win the MVP, but could win the Cy Young. I think the MVP comes down to Ryan Braun and Albert Pujols. With the Cardinals stinking it up the last week, Pujols' chances are diminishing.
Shane
Pujuls looks to secure the batting crown and have 30+ hommers and 100+ Rbi again. He may eek out the MVP. it should be a close vote.
<< <i>Just going off of memory, but I don't think that 2 different pitchers has ever claimed the Cy Young and the MVP. If a pitcher has ever won the MVP, that same pitcher has won the Cy Yount award.
With that said, I don't think C.C. will win the MVP, but could win the Cy Young. I think the MVP comes down to Ryan Braun and Albert Pujols. With the Cardinals stinking it up the last week, Pujols' chances are diminishing. >>
In 1968 both Denny McClain and Bob Gibson won their league's MVP and Cy Young awards.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just going off of memory, but I don't think that 2 different pitchers has ever claimed the Cy Young and the MVP. If a pitcher has ever won the MVP, that same pitcher has won the Cy Young award.
With that said, I don't think C.C. will win the MVP, but could win the Cy Young. I think the MVP comes down to Ryan Braun and Albert Pujols. With the Cardinals stinking it up the last week, Pujols' chances are diminishing. >>
In 1968 both Denny McClain and Bob Gibson won their league's MVP and Cy Young awards. >>
What I meant was that no pitcher (in one league) has won an MVP while another pitcher in the same league has won the Cy Young.
Shane
Steve
What I meant was that no pitcher (in one league) has won an MVP while another pitcher in the same league has won the Cy Young
ahhh gotcha.
Steve
have all won both the MVP and CY Award. Thus it has happened 8 times.
Steve
I like Lincecum as well. At least it is an interesting race in both leagues this year. No Terry Pendletons I hope.
BRB I'll check and see if he won both.
Steve
edited to add: Yup he did it as well so that makes 9 pitchers that won the MVP and Cy Young award in the same season.
Newcombe 1957
Koufax 1963
McClain 1968
Gibson 1968
Blue 1971
Fingers 1981
Hernandez 1984
Clemens 1986
Eckersley 1992
Steve
If CC ends up about 14-2 or so I think he wins the NL Cy Young. I think he had 6 wins in the AL, which I guess should not "count", but 20 wins and a most unbelievable time in the NL!? That wins the Cy Young I think!
History will be on his side as I think Rick Sutcliffe dod basically the same thing for the Cubs in 1984
He went 4 and 5 in the AL then 16 and 1 or something like that in the NL.
He won the NL CY Young award.
Steve
I agree that the no hitter protest is lame, he shoulda made the play then there would be no worries. Too many cookies in the ole belly got his momentum off.
Most bizarre year for voting was 1990. Bob Welch wins a Cy Young award he did not deserve, but with 27 wins we can see why it happened. So how does he finish fifth among pitchers in the MVP voting? How does Eckersley earn a first place vote for MVP, but only two third place votes and nothing else for Cy Young?
Of course we all know the answer: the sports writers are idiots
Steve
That's what I said on Aug 31 ....
Now, after another stellar performance by Tim Lincecum on Sept 8th, I'm even more certain: Lincecum is now the favorite to win the NL Cy Young award!
If you've never had the pleasure of watching him, please try to do so. He's amazing!
Charlie