Cracker’s Remorse… Second Thoughts on the 7070 Type Set (500th Post!!)

illini420

After lurking on this message board for a few months, I became fascinated by the 7070 type sets that have been posted by the members. Just getting back into collecting after some time off, I figured the completion of one of these type sets would be fun and allow me to learn a little bit on each type, the goal of which would be to figure out which ones I like the most and help me direct my future collecting. I also liked the way the album looked when complete and didn’t care for slabs much, having never owned a professional graded coin until about 6 months ago.

I had originally planned to complete my 7070 type set (including the gold page) using only proof coins cracked from original proof sets and/or PCGS and NGC graded coins from AU55-MS70 so that I could better learn how to grade coins (and to minimize overpaying on the more expensive ones because of my lack of grading ability).

At first, I had a blast filling the easy holes by breaking open modern proof sets and cutting up older proof sets as I was able to fill over a dozen spots in no time at all. I also had no second thoughts on cracking many $50-$500 dollar slabbed coins over the next few months as I tackled many of the moderately easy spots in the album.

Now, about six months after I started my 7070 type set, I have about half of the 7070 holes filled, and probably another 20 or so coins valued at $300-$4000 each sitting on my desk still in the slabs. I even made a couple of extra pages to hold the inserts from the cracked slabs

Here’s some quick pictures of my album:






And the extra pages I added for the slab inserts:





And here's some of the slabs that were pending a date with the slab smasher!!







At this point, I’m having second thoughts about whether I’m really going to finish this project.

On the one hand, I really love the album and thus far I have learned a great deal about coin types I hardly knew existed before I began. I know I would also like the look of the album once complete with all AU-MS-Proof coins (obviously).

However, of the coins I cracked out of slabs and put in the album, I already know I want to upgrade them for one reason or another. In order to sell the coins I want to upgrade, I’m pretty sure I need to get them reslabbed to get a fair price. Additionally, while I have already cracked many $500 coins, I’m not sure I’m comfortable cracking out coins worth several thousand dollars, knowing that if I catch one the wrong way with the plastic slides of the album it could be trouble.

With that in mind, and knowing that there is a good chance that I’ll likely upgrade most of the coins someday, I’m done cracking the slabs for the Dansco album!!! This decision was made somewhat easier as I have learned about the registry sets and the fact that the Dansco type set doesn’t include many of the types and isn’t truly a complete type set.

So, at this point I think I’m going to send most of them back in for grading/slabbing and hope that I didn’t already cause any of them damage by cracking and putting them in the album. Figure I’m looking at $350-$500 in slabbing fees to get them back in plastic (I guess I can add that to my education tally). If (more like when) I do submit them I’ll definitely post the results for you all and let you know which ones downgrade/upgrade/bodybag. (I’ve actually submitted one of the coins already in my first submission, the 1883 5c w/cents – former PCGS MS65, now NGC MS66!! It wasn’t that great of a submission though… Click Here).

Sorry for the long rambling above, but just wanted to share my thoughts here (perhaps some other newbies will take my experience into consideration when they start out) and was also wondering if any others out there have had similar stories of “cracker’s remorse?” If so, did you send everything in for re-slabbing? Or did you just get over it, in some other manner?






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And finally, since this is my 500th post, and that you’ve made it this far down, let’s sneak in a giveaway!!!

The winner will receive an 80% complete 2003 Silver Proof Set in OGP! (just the Sacagawea Dollar and the IL Silver Quarter are missing and in the 7070 pictured above ). The set still has the cent, nickel, silver dime, silver half, silver AL quarter, silver ME quarter, silver MO quarter and the silver AR quarter!

To enter, you simply need to reply to the post. Any comments are appreciated, positive, negative and everything in between. Winner will be selected at random sometime after Labor Day. Just want to say thanks to everyone here again, especially those of you who have sold me some great ones over on the BST!!!

**Edited to add: you can post on this thread more than once, but you will only receive one entry into the giveaway. Thanks!

**Edited to add: entries before 11:59 p.m. PDT on Labor Day will be counted in the giveaway. Thanks!

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**Edited to add: Homemade insert tag pages have been donated and were sold in airplanenut's charity auction.

Link to Charity Auction - Lot 077!!!!

Robb

First, thanks for the giveaway.

Secondly, you have an amazing album going.

Fifth (huh?), I would recommend taking a break and reevaluating, which it sounds like you're in the middle of doing.

Personally if it were me, I would complete the set from here on out with coins that you are 110% happy with and only then go back and upgrade.

So, in short, keep on keepin' on.

lordmarcovan

I really like those extra pages you made for the inserts. That is most excellent.

The coins are lovely, too. In or out of plastic.

I think beyond a certain point, like if you can afford all the 19th century types in MS, for example, you probably should leave them in slabs and go for a Registry set. Leave the Dansco for nice circulated coins- lovely AU58 sliders in the 19th century types, at best. I would not put non-modern proofs in the album, and modern proofs only if they are inexpensive.

When I did the 7070 the second or third time, I had modern proofs that went milk-spotty on me. It was part of the reason I switched to slabs in 2000 and the PCGS Registry by 2001. I no longer collect in the Registry but it was fun while it lasted, and that participation brought me to these forums. Now I am "going back to my roots" and getting back into the 7070 thing again- not really as a collector, but hopefully as a dealer who caters to 7070 collectors. I plan to seek out as much nice circulated 19th century type as I can get my hands on. It's my favorite segment of US numismatics. (It takes a bit more to keep a Darksider interested in US coins, you know.)

mcheath

That is a beautiful set. A few forum members have done a virtual 7070 using photoshop. THat seems like a great idea in your case. Any plans to resubmit that 1908 s indian? Oh yeah and how much for the 1833 1/2 cent?

CertifiedGoldCoins

If you plan to re-sell anything, it almost has to be slabbed, because that's what places like Heritage and Teletrade want. This is an unfortunate reality, due to the plethora of struck Chinese-made counterfeits -- of every denomination and type -- being sold and re-sold at shows and on (ugh) eBay that have polluted the coin market.

Placing coins in an album almost guarantees deterioration over time, not to mention the possibility of damage from mishandling. Whether one likes slabs or not, they offer protection, and vouch for authenticity. Old-time collectors (myself included) wish we could go back to the "good old days," but many of those who have joined the collecting fraternity over the last decade or two, know nothing except slabs, and don't trust raw coins.

Even if you vow never to sell anything, that vow will expire when you do. What will happen when your widow(er), child, or grandchild brings an album full of coins to a dealer?

There's nothing wrong with raw coin, I've bought and sold thousands of them. But cracking coins out of slabs at this point in time makes no sense to me. This ain't the "good old days" anymore.

lordmarcovan

I agree with the last post, to a point. I think it is fine to crack low- to middle-priced circulated stuff.

But when you're crackin' 19th century proofs or MS early type, you've gone a tad too far, in my opinion.

(Not that they don't look fantastic in an album- but putting such higher-quality pieces in an album would frighten me, and the previous respondent made some good points about resale.)

Atlantic

Thanks for the chance,
This album is great, I think the extra pages with the slab inserts are super, you have done a great job
Thanks Again

RYK

Wow! You have been busy.

Just a few comments:

1. I agree completely with you and the others that above a certain price point (and it is different for everyone), it becomes uncomfortable to crack out a coin to put in an album. The 09-S Lincoln, 1814 large cent, and FE cent, off the top of my head, look like three such coins in your collection. I personally did not add any individual coin to my 7070 album that I would value over $800.

2. Since you seem to enjoy the type collection, as well as the more expensive certified type coins, why not use the 7070 template for a certified type set? No one said that the coins have to be in an album.

3. The slab insert pages are nifty. It's the first time I have seen anyone do that. I have kept the inserts from the 7070 type set coins that I cracked in an envelope.

Enjoy and keep us posted.

lcoopie

you could even make a virtual 7070
with the right template,
leaving the coins in the slab
but able to see it on the computer


Is there such a thing as a 7070 template?

SilverEagles92

The NGC Registry has plans to create a set that mimics the Dansco 7070 Album. So, if you don't want to crack them, you can put them in your registry set and still have the same feel of a 7070.

NHSBaseball

Thanks for the chance!

I really like the look of your project and would be loathe to give it up.

GFourDriver

I only have 3 coins left to fill my 7070 and I have never had a bit of regret cracking them out of their slabs. In fact, I love liberating them. I totally agree with Lord M that high grade circs (AU55-58) make the best coins for the 7070 except for the modern issues and even then it can get pretty expencsive.

Of course I have a few exceptions to the rule, like the FEC, a couple of seated dimes, and the gold page because in my mind there just isn't a huge premium difference between AU and MS on most of the gold coins.

As for the wear and tear on the coins, yes, you take a risk cracking them but as long as you treat them with care and dont crack the slabs like a drunk trying to ring the bell at a carnival, you'll be OK.

Barndog

I like the thought process the OP has explained. Just think...if you crack that classic head large cent (AU55 is what, a $2K coin?) and wish to upgrade and sell the former NGC AU55, you are faced with some problems: sell it raw and get lowball offers, send it in for grading and you run the risk of a lower grade or a BB (the same can be said for all the coins, just using this as an example). Keep thinking along the lines you explained in the OP and I think you will come to a conclusion that will work well for you financially and suit your numismatic needs/desires.

Jcarney

<< <i>Wow! You have been busy.

Just a few comments:

1. I agree completely with you and the others that above a certain price point (and it is different for everyone), it becomes uncomfortable to crack out a coin to put in an album... >>



Definitely my opinion too. $300-$400 is about my limit for any individual non-gold coin cracked or bought raw to put into an album. I may have to up that a bit when I get to some of the Bust/Seated stuff, but in general, I've pretty much stayed on budget.

Eagleguy

Thanks for your post. I've been toying with the idea of putting together a 7070 type set and you've raised some good questions and everybody has provided some good feedback. I'll be thinking more about this myself.

JH

eyoung429

Absolutely wonderful set you have there.....

I would pm SpaceMonkey and see if he has already created a PS template for the 7070. That way, you can enjoy the look of the album but still retain the original coins in their slabs.

also, please enter my yn Shelby in your wonderful giveaway.

TomB

I have a Dansco 7070 as well as a registry set, but I would not crack a coin out of a holder to put into an album unless I was willing to take a large financial hit upon resale. The reasons are that if the coin is sold raw then it may become less liquid and, hence, less valuable if you want to move it quickly and there is always the chance that a coin will downgrade or even bag if resubmitted.

dorkkarl

i'd say, crack away & don't look back.

K S

smallchange

I went thru the same angst that you are facing. My solution was to get a Whitman 20th century type set album and fill that with the raws coins. I figured that way I could get excellent examples but still not break the bank. I keep most of my 19th century coins in the slab now. I know it's not the same as a Dansco which I love but this was my solution.
Can I ask what are the little plastic pockets that you have for the slab inserts, are they homemade or a purchased item. They look great.

dan8402

I know that I wouldn't want to crack out more expensive coins myself but for you they led to a great set. I like that you're including the gold as well.

speety

<< <i>you could even make a virtual 7070
with the right template,
leaving the coins in the slab
but able to see it on the computer


Is there such a thing as a 7070 template? >>



Spacemonkey made a sweeeeet virtual album but the template was too complex to make it downloadable. (I tried finding his thread but was unable to )

Millertime

<< <i>i'd say, crack away & don't look back.

K S >>



I agree. I have a couple of $700 coins in my Dansco 7070 and I don't think I'd hesitate in cracking out $2000-$3000 coins (if I could afford them). I'd live to see a couple of matte proof Lincolns in my album. The coins in the Dansco are just so much more appealing to the eye than the slabs.

Millertime

FilthyBroke

Nice organization on the insert sleeves!

I also am reluctant to crack any out, as the fees for resubmittal are not worth my getting clearer pics. Lately I've heard too much about inconsistency in resubmissions to trust that it will come back the same grade.

I personally would also keep them protected in slabs, and enjoy them with the peace of mind that they are as safe from enviromental changes as they can be.



BTW, great looking start to your set!

Crackout

Hey, I'm Crackout and I still wouldn't crack out those expensive coins for the 7070.

I chose to go with a less expensive grade and look for my set for that very reason.

And then I created a "virtual" album HERE

The trade dollar and barber half are still in PCGS slabs and not in the album.


BTW, you have a VERY NICE SET!!

Cladiator

<< <i>I really like those extra pages you made for the inserts. That is most excellent. >>

quickwing

Same dilemma most 7070 builders face. Are the very best coins better off in the slabs?
Tom says a financial loss, I'd adjust it to a financial risk of downgrades or even BB (horrible thought) especially when crossing from one TPG to another. I recently bought a coin to fill a hole and I'm in a real quandary as to crack or use another coin I have which has much less impact.
Your original idea of what you wanted was probably well thought out and you knew the price game you were getting into with such a high grade attempt. I guess you reassess if you want the best type set you can put together and the cost that goes with it. If so I'd plan on keeping the set for a long time and enjoying it over and over. If you are worried about resale already...well that's a different objective. You must also think about what your coins are going to look like after “aging” in a Dansco for years. I doubt you will get the vivid colors or beautiful toning of the old blue albums.
To Crack or not to Crack? I'm going with Dork on this one! Do it, don't look back and enjoy for many many years.

ElKevvo

Very nice 7070....I am experiencing the same dilemma....I would like to put the coins in the album but cannot bring myself to crack them out. I am considering a AU 7070 to circumvent this problem!

K

BECOKA

Here is my suggestion that might save you a bunch of money from re-slabbing costs.

Have someone take professional photos of your coins and the dansco pages. Overlay the coin photo's on the virtual dansco pages.

Problem solved.

Or if you want to continue the real dansco route just don't use the plastic slides if you are worried about hairlines.

blue594

Congrats on 500 posts, thanks for the chance. That's a nice Type set you have going there. Not that it means much, but I think that you made the right choice in not cracking any more out for the Dansco.

John

sumrtym

I'd rather leave them in holders then crack them out myself, but that's just me. Collections should be about YOUR enjoyment, not about resale. Do whichever way you enjoy the coins the most.

Jcarney

<< <i>and enjoy them with the peace of mind that they are as safe from enviromental changes as they can be.
>>



You don't have any PCGS slabbed SAEs, do you?

Mowgli

To me the purpose of completing a Dansco type set is to have all the coins in the album so they can be viewed together. Most people like looking through a 7070 and seeing all the different coins at once especially non-collectors who are amazed at coins they didn't know existed. I do not picture it as something that needs to be assembled as nicely as you are doing. When completed it is impressive especially in a high enough grade that the design elements are clear. Having lower grades in some of the more expensive coins doesn't hurt because it points out to non-collectors that these are rarer coins or that they were well used in circulation.

I have put many sets into Dansco albums, including uncirculated sets, but even I am starting to keep my purchases in plastic - especially if they are AU58/MS, rare or have issues with authenticity. I suspect my freeing of coins will have a future price.

Still, raw coins can sell well at large coin shows where the customer base is better at grading and more comfortable doing so. There are trusted dealers who buy and sell raw coins.

In any case, your 7070 has beautiful coins and is going to much nicer than most. If you just like having nicer type coins you can always put lower grade coins in the 7070 and keep the slabs as many type collectors do.

Batman23

I think that you would be happy with a nice solid AU 7070. Then have your MS coins left in the slabs. You were on your way to an extremely nice 7070 BTW. I personally would not be able to bring myself to putting such high grade high dollar coins in the album though.

I really like the additional pages you made to hold the certificate inserts

Musky1011

I have trouble cracking coins in the $150 range

Nice set you have going there

Jim

sparky64

My 7070 is made up of the best raw coins I can find and afford. That sets the bar kinda low.
I break a sweat cutting open a Mint Set. I couldn't subject a high grade early coin to those album sliders.
But that me.

What you start is amazing.
If you have doubts nows the time to bail.
You have a great eye and I think if you put together a XF-AU set it would be a knockout.

Thanks for the chance.

IGWT

-- Cracker's Remorse --

IGWT

Was it something I said?

GrumpyEd

I see it both ways.

It's tough to crack a high graded coin and it might give you problems or expense to get it re-slabbed.

But then you want the coin your 7070 so you had a reason to do it.

In the end it's not a bad deal, by getting graded coins you might have avoided getting some problem or fake coins so whatever that saved you might cancel the fees of slabbing or loss on a few that will not re-slab.

I also like the idea of virtual sets.

ChuckC

Seeing that 1916 merc out of its slab scares me a bit!

FilamCoins

I started a better grade type set earlier this year and went through the same emotions you're having. In the end, I decided to keep the coins slabbed for protection (from the elements and so others could handle the coins without me being worried about them). I purchased a Eagle Certified Coin Album and have been very happy with the decision so far.

illini420

Thanks for the comments so far, they have been reassuring and helpful and I'm definitely going to consider them all before I either change my plans or keep moving forward. I guess my primary concern wasn't just about the money or losing value if the coin wouldn't reslab if I had to sell, it's also about not wanting to damage a valuable piece of history like my 1804 spiked chin half cent or the 1814 classic head large cent.

Right now, I'm leaning towards resubmitting my higher grade coins, and maybe turning my 7070 into a VF-XF/AU project. I like the idea of having the album to be able to have them all at hand for quick and nice viewing, but I also like the idea of maybe doing a virtual type set as some have suggested for my MS coins. Would likely work out just as well since the plan was to keep the AU/MS 7070 type set in the safety deposit box anyway given that I would have $25k-$35k in it if I had completed it as planned.




<< <i>Any plans to resubmit that 1908 s indian? Oh yeah and how much for the 1833 1/2 cent? >>



Will have the 1908-S evaluated in person by some folks who know what they are doing first, but I probably will give it at least one more shot. Planning on keeping the 1833 for now, thanks though




<< <i>Can I ask what are the little plastic pockets that you have for the slab inserts, are they homemade or a purchased item. They look great. >>



Thanks to everyone for the comments on my pages for the inserts. They were pretty easy to make and very inexpensive, just used a roll or two of those plastic photo corners that people use for scrapbooking. Each roll has about 250 of them (need 4 per insert) and the rolls are a couple of dollars each. Makes it easy to remove inserts or move them around and I like this idea better than just sticking the insert on the back cover.



<< <i>I like that you're including the gold as well. >>



Thanks, I didn't start out w/ the gold page, but didn't take me long to add it I never had a $20 Saint before, and was able to pick up the 1909 (tougher date) graded in AU58 for about $10 over melt at the time!! Not as worried about the gold being cracked out as it's mostly AU58 anyways.



<< <i>I'd live to see a couple of matte proof Lincolns in my album. >>



Funny you mention that, I originally was going to have an MPL in my wheat cent spot. Unfortunately, to get one that I considered attractive, the prices are frequently multiples of even the PCGS guide prices. If someone can point me to a very nice looking 63BN to 64RD of the common dates at or below the PCGS prices, let me know



<< <i>Very nice 7070....I am experiencing the same dilemma....I would like to put the coins in the album but cannot bring myself to crack them out. I am considering a AU 7070 to circumvent this problem! >>



If you truly hold to wanting AU examples, you'll still need $1k plus on several coins (Draped Bust Cent, Classic Head Cent, mabye the Bust Quarter and Seated Dollars). Doesn't quite avoid the "problem" entirely.



<< <i>Seeing that 1916 merc out of its slab scares me a bit! >>



Yeah, not the most expensive one I've cracked, but maybe the highest grade. It's pretty



Thanks again everyone

BlackBeard

Personally I would be more than a little nervous cracking out the older or highly valued MS coins. I would be more comfortable with the protection a slab offers considering the investment. However, this diminishes the enjoyment as far as a 7070 goes.

Those are some fine looking coins you have. Congratulations on your progress so far. Well done.

Also, grats on the 500 and thanks for the chance.

kklambo

That's a great looking 7070 set.

Since my budget is much lower than yours, I'm working on completing a Dansco 7070 album with vf-unc raw coins bought at coin shows, BST and EBAY. I've also gotten a second used 7070 book for the downgrades when I'm able to upgrade to better coins. In the future, hopefully with more disposable income, I would like to complete a slabbed 7070 set in higher MS grade and varieties housed in a Eagle certified type album.

Cnitas

I am in the same boat as you. I have a 7070 going, but I am having a hard time cracking out the more pricey coins.
I like the slabs for the authenticity factor, particularly on the Gold and on the Seated Dollars.

Meltdown

I found I was upgrading my coins way before the set was finished. It's was so easy & fun to fill most those holes that it became more important than looking for quality & eye appeal. I've since slowed down and am trying to be more selective.
Your set looks incredible by the way. Thanks for the giveaway also!

BRdude

<< <i>But when you're crackin' 19th century proofs or MS early type, you've gone a tad too far, in my opinion. >>


Excellent job onn assembling a heck of a set here so far. Being a 7070 fanatic also I wouldn't or couldn't crack the expensive coins you have. I've kept all the affordable coins MS, and the less affordable ones higher end AUs, and the really expensive ones high end XF or low end AU. This makes a nice looking, fun, fairly affordable set to put together. I lack maybe 5 coins to completion, or probably about $1200-$1500 more, so for me it's slowly but surely.
Before spending the $$ for slabbing fees, lots of guys (like me) would be willing to purchase some coins for maybe at least close to what you paid for them so I would suggest posting what you were wanting to get rid of or upgrade on the BST. Not much difference in taking $30 or so less, than spending $30 to have re-slabbed. Just a thought, and good luck on whatever you decide

illini420

Thanks for the idea on the Eagle albums that hold slabs, that might be something to consider as well as I didn't know about those before.

BRdude, you're right, if I decide to resubmit any of these with the intention of selling/upgrading, I will list on the BST first at a discount. Make a lot of sense and would avoid jumping through a few hoops if the buyer was going to just crack it for their album too

CoinsAreNeat

Good start!

TwoSides2aCoin

Great post. I've made a conscientious choice to find problem free specimens where possible from XF to MS for my 7070. I haven't cracked any coins out, except for US mint uncirculated coins from cellophane.

IGWT...
That's a funny "Cracker's Remorse" poster.

rah1959

thanks for the giveaway...please count me in.

The album looks great...however...I believe in" Collect what you like...and how you like" so....do what feels best for YOU!

RAH1959

AlixTCat

Thank you for the giveaway.

I appreciate the time, effort and love that has gone into your 7070 it is nothing short of fantastic. However, I think you're making the right move for the coins you think you'll upgrade. Has putting together what you have in the set led you to know what direction your collecting will take? Or are you going to continue collecting types and do the registry set route?

Jonathan