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please poke holes in my idea of buying bulk silver and selling on ebay or what not.
fc
Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭
For example,
If I can get silver in 1, 5, or 10 ounce bars, today, for 14.42 an ounce... directly from the minters... and sell them on ebay for the
going rate...
minus ebay fees, paypal fees, and shipping/handling...
so for example a 10 ounce bar, i can buy for 140.42 in bulk lots of
100 to 499 ounces in an order.
on ebay these easily go for 170-185 and this includes shipping/handling. sure, some go for 165 but that is always with shipping
charges. some go for more. average lets say of 170 on the low side.
Lets break down the fees.
$170.00 (Closing Price)
- $5.00 (Cost of Postage)
- $140.42 (Cost to Acquire)
- $0.15 (eBay Insertion Fees)
- $0.25 (eBay Listing Upgrade Fees)
- $7.27 (eBay Final Value Fees)
- $4.93 (2.9% PayPal transaction fee)
- $0.30 (PayPal fixed fee)
= $5.23 (Total PayPal Fees)
= $7.67 (Total eBay Fees)
= $11.68 (Total Net Profit)
what in the heck am i missing here except easy money in my pocket?
i will reread this post for mistakes and correct as i go.
If I can get silver in 1, 5, or 10 ounce bars, today, for 14.42 an ounce... directly from the minters... and sell them on ebay for the
going rate...
minus ebay fees, paypal fees, and shipping/handling...
so for example a 10 ounce bar, i can buy for 140.42 in bulk lots of
100 to 499 ounces in an order.
on ebay these easily go for 170-185 and this includes shipping/handling. sure, some go for 165 but that is always with shipping
charges. some go for more. average lets say of 170 on the low side.
Lets break down the fees.
$170.00 (Closing Price)
- $5.00 (Cost of Postage)
- $140.42 (Cost to Acquire)
- $0.15 (eBay Insertion Fees)
- $0.25 (eBay Listing Upgrade Fees)
- $7.27 (eBay Final Value Fees)
- $4.93 (2.9% PayPal transaction fee)
- $0.30 (PayPal fixed fee)
= $5.23 (Total PayPal Fees)
= $7.67 (Total eBay Fees)
= $11.68 (Total Net Profit)
what in the heck am i missing here except easy money in my pocket?
i will reread this post for mistakes and correct as i go.
0
Comments
now for 161.15 shipped. that could be a problem ;-)
so it seems that if one was to create a website like apmex.. cut
out ebay and paypal... you could reduce your prices to compete
head on with them. they key would be to under cut them and
have lower operating costs...
it seems the key to making money in this business is volume.. gee.
would have never guessed.
I knew it would happen.
would give me a headache. I have found much easier ways to loose money
-sm
The Maddy Rae Collection
CURRENT BST OFFERINGS
<< <i>No insurance? >>
i am assuming, from shipping coins enough, that i could ship, cover
the packaging, and get insurance for 5.00 bucks somehow??
i would of course have to research that. the best way to ship and
cover my butt for the lowest amount of money.
let me do that now.
<< <i>well for one... you need to get them shipped to you (time delay)... and then have the b***s to do in quanity... risk would be part of the game!
would give me a headache. I have found much easier ways to loose money
-sm >>
yes, a volatile market would suck. swings of a dollar or more in a week could
easily hurt.
but lets face it, i can think of worse problems then being stuck with
500 ounces of silver that just happen to lost a dollar an ounce
in a day ;-)
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>You also have the cost of bringing in new stock, shipping, paperwork, cost of capital, etc. >>
i found a mint where shipping is free if you order enough.
a well known name. heck i could even design my own 10 Oz bars
if i felt like paying for it.
cost of capital is called my checking account... :-|
paperwork could be done by myself including taxes... it is about time
i learn how to run a small business anyway. my gf is quite good at
that. i could put her to work and she works cheap. ;-)
Instead of selling it off in parcels at that point, I then like to stash it for the next 20-30 years. It doesn't spoil. It doesn't make fun of your decisions. It doesn't argue with the wisdom of your investment plans.
The cool thing is when the price goes up, you can add to it and still feel smart. In fact, if it goes up alot, you can really feel brilliant. Until it goes down. After awhile, it just becomes an asset that sits there until you need it. It's not like electrons in an account. You actually can feel somewhat secure.
Of course, it's good to have different kinds of assets, but silver is really the most fun, except maybe for gold or platinum.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>fc, I've found silver to be much more fun by saving my money, trying to pick an entry point, and then buying a larger amount (which does get you a slightly better price).
Instead of selling it off in parcels at that point, I then like to stash it for the next 20-30 years. It doesn't spoil. It doesn't make fun of your decisions. It doesn't argue with the wisdom of your investment plans.
The cool thing is when the price goes up, you can add to it and still feel smart. In fact, if it goes up alot, you can really feel brilliant. Until it goes down. After awhile, it just becomes an asset that sits there until you need it. It's not like electrons in an account. You actually can feel somewhat secure.
Of course, it's good to have different kinds of assets, but silver is really the most fun, except maybe for gold or platinum. >>
I guess i am not interested in that play. I do not want 1000s of dollars
or even more just sitting there gaining dust. I want the money to
make money. If PMs have such high interest over the next several
years one could make some money flipping the stuff. at least i think
so.
For example many here are frustrated at not being able to buy silver
at a reasonable price. There is a need that needs stuffing ;-)
oh yea, i can ship the package for 6 bucks insured which automagically
comes with delivery confirmation...
i dunno. i am just day dreaming. it cannot hurt to give it a try with
a few hundred ounces eh?
Even if we take your numbers and say you do a hundred of them and make $1100. For that you have packed and shipped 100 parcels, done 100 listings, a dozen trips to the post office, whatever. Let's say a modest 2% of the deals go bad with Paypal chargebacks, or scams or whatever, and that is $280 gone. Poof. Depending on how efficient you are, it is hard to say what the hourly wage works out to be. Sounds like you would have earned the $800, and it wouldn't be easy money. Keep in mind that the more items you sell, the narrower the spread will tend to get, so you likely can't scale up to 1000 bars because the profit will likely narrow down to nothing flat.
You also need a plan if the price of silver continues to crater and the Ebay price plummets along with it. What then? Are you running true auctions, or buy it now? What if silver drops another 20% while you have significant stock on hand? Of course it could also jump that much, but it seems unlikely that the Ebay price will jump 20% to $21 if spot silver goes back to $16.
It did however allow me to liquidate the few bars, rounds of silver I had when it fell 20% the other week and still come out ahead!!!!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
There use to be a shop in Ill. that always had LOTS ( another secret..he never ran out!) of silver bars... 1,5,10 and 100's....
and his spot + price was always the same.... and he was a real buyer... watched a guy bring in 20-100's once...no problem...
It did not matter if some one else was a nickel cheaper or not.....he was the "go to man".... buying or selling......
Did not matter if silver went up or down $1 in a day....On the days it dropped.... no problem....as long as he reordered it for less.
He did so well after 5 years he left the snow and grime for a warmer state!!
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
for a long time.
I am assuming he wins based off your 5 dollar shipping. Shipping thru paypal with all the required confirmations
will cost you more than 5 bucks. And that is still no assurance you would win the dispute.
I remember not long ago a fellow member lost a dispute because the guys wife signed for the package.
IMHO The risk is too high for a VERY minimal profit. Add gas to the post office and supplies to ship and you likely
will be in the red at the end of the year...
Good luck to you
And it sounds like you are buying from a off brand smelter. It would be cool to make your own bar.
But you would not get Ampex, Engelhard or JM bar prices. Silvertowne at times bring less as well.
if you do it on your leisure time you'll have a lot of fun but it is rarely the effort to flip it that way so quickly
if you can hang onto it for awhile it's okay
ebay is going towards paypal only and almost forcing free shipping.
Also, what you might consider is your programming skills. Isn't that what you do? You might consider making the money (more efficiently, I might add) by moonlighting with your programming skills, and taking THAT money to put into savings.
If you think that money has to be "working" for you, you should reconsider before opening a conventional money market account or savings account. In today's environment, it is likely that money in an interest-bearing account will be guaranteed to lose purchasing power. Right now, according to John Williams Shadowstats (link is provided in roadrunner's posts), inflation is running 13%. That means your $1000 will be worth $870 a year from today, maybe $900 if you are getting 3% interest.
This isn't hype. Until Clinton, inflation was calculated to include the real numbers that you and I are affected by in the real world. Now, inflation data from the gov't is simply a pack of lies, published in order to keep their social security outflows and T-Bill interest payments lower. There is no place to hide, believe me.
I knew it would happen.
What about market risk ? What if silver goes to $3 ?
What about income tax ? That chops in your $11 EBITDA !
You will need to do allot of transactions to really get anywhere.
Can you even do this fast enough to beat a job making min. wage ?
You might be money ahead with a paper route.
everyone could plant me firmly in reality's soil.
it might be fun to try it out for a month or two just to see what happens.. but everyone mentioned the problems i would quickly
run into. heck, i read the disaster stories people have selling coins
on ebay every day here ;-)
just keep in mind, if no one takes risk in their life.. there is very rarely
any rewards. sometimes the learning process prepares you for future
adventures.
as for programming skills, that just came along with my job of network
engineering. i run one of the biggest networks in new england with
only the owner above me... in that type of environment you tend to
be a problem solver and pick up every skill related to information tech.
one thing my boss taught me is that without taking risk of trying something
new you will not often win big and just end up being an employee
which is where many people feel safe. funny how he affords his new
mercedes due to shipping olive oil from turkey to the US or what not
as a middle man. etc..
i will give it more thought and might as well give it a try once i think
it through beginning to end a few more times. making 800 extra
dollars in two weeks time sounds good to me, plus i live one block
away from the post office ;-)
A less known name brand bar will not sell for much over spot.. I would sell on the BST for a few dollars
less per bar. Cut out paypal and the eBay fees and you would probably come close to the same result
with less headache and worry.
Remember there are other forums that have BST boards as well. I am looking forward to your listings.
There is truth to taking risk to make money. But I think the reward should be worth more than 11 dollars.
One eBay/PayPal dispute you lose wipes out the profit of approx 14 bars...
folks. after all i easily googled for them and others can to.
http://www.silvertownemint.com/ (custom made bars/rounds)
http://www.nwtmint.com/
i am sure i could find a few more but these are by far the two most
well known.
if anyone has ordered from them or what not please feel free to share
your experience. these are the people APMEX deal with and i see
no reason why i should use them as a middle man.
I did get a kick out of the Morgan and Peace bulk bags. They want 19.37 for a morgan dollar
And they say their Peace dollar bags contain 1921 Peace dollars..
How many of those do you think I would find??
On a serious note. If you do this, I would start out with 50 bars for a few cents more per ounce
That way you are only tying up half as much capital. And if the price drops like it has the last few weeks
your exposure would be limited to 50 bars and not 100.
In recent days, I've read that they are pulling the same *crap* again, in silver this time - due to the shortage. BEWARE.
Added: The reason I ordered from them was their online promises of good service and their low-ball online prices. n'uff said.
I knew it would happen.
for example. i will probably go with them first if they are competitive
and i go through with this. let me call on monday and find out.
They sat on a silver order of mine for 7 weeks......was ready to fly out and get the AG on them...... turns out, the AG is on them NOW.
NWTM says its because the AG just doesn't under stand the biz..... people understand getting the run around!!
To bad.....they do make a nice product.
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
<< <i>fc....jmski52..... NWTMint..... This is their normal method of operation.....take your order....have you wait 1-3 MONTHS before delivery.
They sat on a silver order of mine for 7 weeks......was ready to fly out and get the AG on them...... turns out, the AG is on them NOW.
NWTM says its because the AG just doesn't under stand the biz..... people understand getting the run around!!
To bad.....they do make a nice product. >>
this is the third person to mention delays in sending the product.
but i have not heard of a person say they were ripped totally off...
no money, no silver.
either way, one cannot tolerate that type of practices if you plan
to flip silver.
to flip silver.
Every business needs reliable suppliers. And whenever I see a company dragging their feet on deliveries, I strongly suspect financial problems. Who wants to be left holding the bag when the house comes down?
Kinda like Fannie and Freddie.
I knew it would happen.
Sunshine mint has a min order of 500 Oz. Not bad really, i could swing that.
Their main problem is the delay. They cannot ship until Dec!
Silvertowne mint will gladly sell you all the silver you want at close to spot
but it will be misc crap. Rounds, bars, santa claus, etc... no thanks. If you
want brand new bars you pay retail. sigh.
Northwest Territorial mint kept me on hold.. I never did talk to anyone yet.
I have yet to call the less promising ones like Ohio Precious Metals and etc...
Truly, sunshine, even with the delay seems the most promising.
<< <i>Apmex has some 10 ouncers in lots of 20 or more for under 150 bucks each, shipped by September 8th, looks like just got some new stuff in. (About 11 bucks under what your original quote for them was I think.) >>
i want brand new 10 oz bars at 142-143 area per oz.
apmex is simply a middleman who orders from the companies i am discussing.
they are taking profits away from me if i wish to do this. i cannot afford a middle
man like apmex.
If you do infact keep an inventory.... I will be a customer!!
In a bit!!
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
Northwest Territorial has a delivery time of about 8-10 weeks.
Just buying the metal is turning out to be a total gamble due to the
time it takes to arrive! You could be totally screwed to a major score
depending on the spot price come Nov.
They quoted a price of 145.50 for 10 ounce bars when you buy in
quantity. Not bad really if you plan to hold and keep for the long term.
Insane if you plan to flip :-| The risk involved is outstanding.