1971 Topps Football Official Thread

Morgoth

Just wondered if there was any others on the Journey who are regular message board members. Here is my set sitting at 22nd which shows how tough this registry is.

My 1971 Set

I started collecting it after I got into Steeler HOF rc collecting. Having both the Bradshaw and Greene in 8s spurred me to buy a partially graded set and go from there.

Anyone interested in trading or filling in my holes let me know. I have a PSA 7 Namath available for trade.

NeilDowney

Hi Morgoth, I have a complete 1971 Topps Dallas Cowboys team set in my collection. It is all PSA 8 but I'd love to get a PSA 9 or two and beef up the GPA. I am also thinking about starting a 1971 Topps Baltimore Colts team set but I haven't bought any yet. Perhaps some day I'll chip away at the entire set. Neil

Morgoth

Its a fun set but I haven't even begun to understand the rarities yet. I have just been chipping away at it. My partial set was about 27% graded the rest raw. I have graded some, bought some and now I am about 47% complete. Once I hit 50% I will throw a little party.

I have been upgrading my 6's to 7's at least. The 6's were part of the original set.

I don't think I will try and replace my 7's with 8's unless they are pretty cheap as I think PSA is brutal on grading this year and most centered 7's beat alot of 8's I have seen in other years.

I have been buying a larger percentage of 8's off the bay but at the National I found almost 20 7's on one dealers table for $5 bucks each but if you bought 10 I think he knocked another 5 bucks off. I think I spent 70 bucks for 20 7's.

Morgoth

Here is my top 25 list of low pop/hard to find cards after analysis of the pop report. My rankings are based on percent high grade (8-10 no qualifiers) and total number high grade.

Jim Turner
Kent Mccloughan
Gus Otto
Checklist 1-132
Mike Eischeid
Tom Matte
John Bramlett
Jim Bakken
Jerry Logan
Paul Guidry
Deacon Jones
Ken Ellis
Royce Berry
O.J. Simpson
Herman Weaver
Clifton Mcneil
Al Atkinson
Mike Curtis
Jim Butler
Bill Bergey
Dick Post
George Webster
Mike Taliaferro
Roy Hilton
Jack Snow

Morgoth

Easiest cards to find in the 71 set in 8 or better?

Billy Lothridge and Bob Brown

Lothridge has 63 out of 79 cards submitted 8 or higher.
Brown has 75 out of 98 cards submitted 8 or higher.

I suspect that these two won't have too many more submitted as there are plenty of 8s to satisfy set collectors IMO

Now with HOFers that are in high demand people will submit alot of non high end cards or squeekers looking for a good day so their percentage high end grades goes way down (but total number of high end remains way high and evens out their rarity score, normally HOFers rank smack dab in the middle of rarity ratings for me, for example I have Bradshaw ranked 132 overall). However seeing OJ Simpson ranked so high in overall rarity shows me that there is something going on with that card. Anyone know how many cards were on a sheet in 71? Maybe the Juice was a corner card.

Pinkcatfish

The '71 set is indeed a great set. It is my only graded set from the 70's. Aside from the great HOF RCs, the RCs of Kiick, Mercury Morris and Jake Scott add to the quality of the set. It was the first set I collected as a kid so initially that was my driving force in collecting it.

It took me a couple years to complete in 8 or better but I was very fortunate to pick up ALOT of 8's at less than $10 per card - including the Wehrli RC. I think it is still underated as a set and then with the colored borders more difficult to find in high grades. I also don't believe there is much unopened stuff out there but I guess you never know for sure.

Good Luck

J

jmoran19

<< <i> However seeing OJ Simpson ranked so high in overall rarity shows me that there is something going on with that card. Anyone know how many cards were on a sheet in 71? Maybe the Juice was a corner card. >>



Ah, 1971, my obsession for all things cards

1971 FB were printed in two series, 132 cards in series 1, 131 cards in series 2 (the 2nd series checklist was printed twice, once with the first series and again on the 2nd series sheet). I have a photo of the first series sheet, will post and explain later. Only have 10/12 of the second series sheet. John

P.S. I have two complete sets, my graded cards are registered under jmoran19, I believe I am 28th currently. I also have a PSA 8 Unitas and a PSA 6 Bradshaw in my raw second set. Also have 4 wax packs (2 each series), a full size cello pack and a 1st series rack pack.

jmoran19

Ok, had to find the pictures and upload them.

Here is the left side of a first series uncut sheet. A true uncut sheet is 264 cards for most years,. Topps would cut them in half for easier handling. The right side of the 264 card sheet would be exactly the same as the left side.

12 rows of cards X 11 columns = 132, the 2nd series checklist is in the upper left corner

jmoran19

Proof sheet showing IMO the top 5 rows of the 2nd series sheet, note there are NO dp's besides the 2nd series checklist therefore the bottom row was updated to include the missing AFC cards such as Fred Biletnikoff, Jake Scott, Jim Kiick, Jim Turner, etc



Note the majority of cards you mentioned as being tough to get are in the first column and the last column. To me, it looks like the borders on the side are the same size as the border between two cards, therefore if cut perfectly, the left border for OJ's column will always be 50% bigger than the right border, and then reverse for the cards in the last column

jmoran19

This proof sheet IMO shows the bottom 5 rows of the 2nd series sheet. The top row is missing but it should be the various All Pro cards printed in the second series like Mean Joe, Deacon Jones etc (upside down like the 6th row on the 1st series sheet)

rexvos

<< <i>Proof sheet showing IMO the top 5 rows of the 2nd series sheet, note there are NO dp's besides the 2nd series checklist therefore the bottom row was updated to include the missing AFC cards such as Fred Biletnikoff, Jake Scott, Jim Kiick, etc



Note the majority of cards you mentioned as being tough to get are in the first column and the last column. To me, it looks like the borders on the side are the same size as the border between two cards, therefore if cut perfectly, the left border for OJ's column will always be 50% bigger than the right border, and then reverse for the cards in the last column >>



great stuff again mr. moran.

I would like to start a 71 set one day, just a lot to bite off.

LionsFan

LionsFan

Morgoth, It's good to hear from fellow 1971 Topps Football collectors! I've been building my set for approx 5 years, working toward all 8's. I still have a few left to go, but it's been a fun set to collect. I agree with the hard-to-find cards you listed, but would also add #233 Lamar Parrish. Even though it is not one of the lower-pop cards (I think there are 25 8's), this card is really tough to find. Good luck with your set!

jmoran19, thanks for posting the 1971 proof sheets!

Morgoth

Great stuff, wow Moran that is some great info. You can see really see how placement on the sheets caused rarity of high grades. So that 2nd series sheet you have pictured was before they changed and added more players? Otherwise Bradshaw would have been a double print? Very cool stuff.

I think this set, because of all the cool RCs and tough borders is top 10 all time for FB sets and I like it better than the BB set and it is one of my Favs.

jmoran19

Thanks! Like I said, I'm obsessed with 1971 baseball, football and basketball cards (including Kelloggs), 1970 ranks a very close second as 70 football cello packs are the first cards I can remember buying with quarters from my Mom's slot machine winnings although she knew nothing about it LOL , John

P.S. Jason, I can no longer share anything with you as I noticed your a Steeler fan ,
and yes I'm still bitter about the immaculate deception as well as Super Bowl 9

Morgoth

Give me all your 71 Bradshaw and Greenes then hatter

Seriously, I would be bitter too but we Steeler fans have our own issues. Like Neil @#$%$ Odonnel against the Cowboys or Kordell Stewert in the playoffs at anytime.

I am sure one day it will even out, I would be also bitter about the tuck rule.

Pinkcatfish

I agree that the Lemar Parrish is a tough one eventhough not truly a low pop. There has been some talk that he could get some HOF consideration from the Vet committee. If so, that would be another great RC to add and would instantly send it up to over $100 for an 8.

J

jmoran19

Steelers = 5 Super Bowl wins

Vikings = A BIG FAT ZERO

You my friend are not allowed to complain about anything

At least the Angels finally came thru in 02

Morgoth

You guys have Tavaris Jackson what more do you need?

Lemar Parrish is one of my few 6's I am trying to upgrade. I have it ranked 33rd overall in rarity.

There are some really interesting cards in the 71 set like Ed Sharockman #253, has only 32 cards graded 7-8 with no 9's. The Parrish has 44 7-8's with no 9's.

For sheer rarity of numbers Jim Baaken on has 20 7-8s with no 9's. It is the least submitted card in the whole set at 24 total. Again, it is one of the 6's I am trying to replace

Most of these low pops have had really low submission rates like the Baaken with only 24 total submissions (with 20 of them being 7 or higher).

I think that Jim Turner, Jim Matte, Checklist 1-132 and OJ will remain pretty rare in 8's for awhile due to their low percentage of high grade ratings with total submission amounts over 40.

Morgoth

One thing (Vikings should have gotten Brett) but besides that this set has alot of registered sets in it.

It is the 5th most popular popular football set from the 50's thru the 70's. The top five are

1- 1955 Topps AA- 72 Sets
2- 1969 Topps- 58 Sets
3 (tie)- 1957 Topps- 57 Sets
3 (tie)- 1972 Topps- 57 Sets
5- 1971 Topps- 53 Sets

Now I can totally understand the 55 and 57 sets being classics but I don't really get the 69 set other than aesthetics maybe but I am declaring open war on the 72 set, no way is it cooler than 71.

Must be all the damn Cowboy fans.

jmoran19

Speaking of the Bakken, it's the only all blue card missing from the bottom 5 row proof sheet I posted above, probably a corner card on one of the missing 2 rows.

I've also noticed a few varations between the NFC proof sheet and the card found in packs. Curt Knight (top row, 7th column) is looking left on the proof sheet, the produced card has him looking right. Also, the card of Ted Vactor (top row, 10th column) has a orangey background on the proof, the card found in packs has a yellow background. A few others cards also have a darker blue shade in the background.

I also noticed that the checklist on the AFC proof sheet has a partial blue border on the left, have never seen one with this going thru cards at shows so they had to replaced the all pro card next to it with a red AFC card. By my count there are 13 all pro cards in series 2, 11 of them would have been in one of the missing rows and then the other 2 would be in the corner as shown. John

vjsteele4

Morgoth,
I have a PSA 8 Parrish and when it popped I couldn't believe it was the highest graded. I just sent in 2 more with hopes of at least 8's. If I remember correctly, about a month or 2 a PSA 8 sold BIN for $100.
When my grades come back and if I can upgrade your 6 I'll send you a pm.
Vince

Morgoth

Great, look forward to it!

Morgoth

John, that is really interesting to see them making changes literally at the last minute. I wonder if the color changes were due to printing issues or cost?

jmoran19

<< <i>I also noticed that the checklist on the AFC proof sheet has a partial blue border on the left, have never seen one with this going thru cards at shows so they had to replaced the all pro card next to it with a red AFC card >>



OOPS, I'm totally off on this theory. I just went thru my #1 set looking at the low pop. cards Jason listed and my 2nd series checklist does have a blue border on the bottom left half like the one in row 5. That's what happens when you get old and have little ones

On the positive side, I found a few low pop. cards that should be 8's, I'll post a picture later so you all can grade for me, John

Estil

I guess 1971 is a classic set for both baseball and football.

jmoran19

Anyone think these will get lower than a 8? The McNeil and the Otto are 65/35 which is in the tolerance for an 8, let me know what you think, John

Morgoth

Gus Otto- Yes (80% Sure)
Jim Bakken- Yes (70% Sure, upper left iffy)
Herman Weaver- Yes (95% Sure)
Bill Bergey-No (They love to 7 and 7.5 cards that would be 8s in other years, the lower left has a white tip and they will hammer it)
Checklist 1-132- Yes (70% Sure)
Clifton McNeal- No (will fall under eye appeal hammer no matter what the percent really is)

Weaver and Otto may be 8.5s or 9's.

You get 3 8's, 1 8.5 and 2 7's.

carew4me

I have #83 Gale Gillingham & #162 Donny Anderson both in PSA 8 if anyone needs them.

Morgoth

I need them both, shoot me a price. Jason

Morgoth

I am marching towards 50% complete. Once I hit it, the first person to pm me with congrats gets a 1971 HOF graded worth at least 5 bucks!!!!!!!!! I'll give you a hint of who it is, he was once on Mork and Mindy.

cardbender

John,
Thanks for posting the sheets. Great info.

Also very nice '71 FB cards you have.

To me the Clifton McNeil looks narrow. Does it measure 2 1/2 wide?
I have some '71 vending too and some are big, small, long, narrow, it all really depends.

Your other cards look sharp from the scans and should grade 8 or higher. The Bakken is tough.

Rich

jmoran19

Thanks for the comments!

The McNeil measures up fine but since it is in the first column it will have a off center cut as descriped previously IMO. He probably won't make the final cut though as I hate 7's, I'm going to crack my finest 7's and re submit. If I remember right, none are low pop cards, mostly Hofers from the first series. John

P.S. I know what you mean about vending cards, I have a Lance Alworth card that is an easy 9 but it is oversized top/bottom

Morgoth

I have a hard time telling most of my 7s and 8s from each other, it seems since it is so easy to see any imperfection in this year they just hammer it for any bit of white showing.

I do have some ugly 7s and 8s but they are much fewer than the amount of awesome 7s I have.

Morgoth

Anyone going after the 2nd Series PSA graded wax pack thats on?

Bkritz

I have a nice psa 7 1971 topps HOF Ken Houston Rookie if anyone wants him!

B

otwcards

Jason:

Great to see that you are so close to the mid point...

I've had some decent luck with a couple of recent subs, but still need to add the following for my HOF and Future HOF sets:

PSA 8 Parrish
PSA 8 Wehrli
PSA 7 or 8 Bradshaw
PSA 8 Sanders

Any help would be appreciated.

Morgoth

I went through my set and found these doubles

#198 Hoyle Granger PSA 7
#26 Charlie Taylor PSA 7
#39 George Blanda PSA 7
#147 Nick Buoniconti PSA 7
and I have a PSA 6 Namath as well

PM me if you need any of these, I will be very reasonable on prices.

Morgoth

Thanks, I am one more closer after today. Thanks Bkritz/Brian for the Steve Delong 8, it was beautiful!

47.5%

SKINSFAN

Breaking all my skins team sets so these are available if anyone needs them pm or email me at jelly_man@msn.com

26 CHARLIE TAYLOR PSA 8
50 SONNY JURGENSEN PSA 9
74 PAT FISCHER PSA 8
97 CHRIS HANBURGER PSA 9
115 LARRY BROWN PSA 9
143 MIKE BRAGG PSA 8
159 TED VACTOR PSA 8
192 MANNY SISTRUNK PSA 9
216 BILL BRUNDIGE PSA 8
237 CURT KNIGHT PSA 9
257 MARK MOSELEY PSA 8

Morgoth

PM sent

John, did you send your 71s in yet?

jmoran19

<< <i>Anyone going after the 2nd Series PSA graded wax pack thats on? >>



Might be overkill for me to get Sorry about the crappy picture, I used my 5 year old daughter's camera

Morgoth

Man, love that rack!!!!!!!!! How can you tell the series 1 from 2 wax? What series is you GAI 9 pack? Man I don't know if I could resist opening a series 2 pack if I had multiples .

I really want to get that pack on the Bay but I think it will bring some good coin due to the series.

jmoran19

The top 2 packs are series one and the bottom two, including the 9, are 2nd series.

FYI, first series packs have a dark almost purple shade of red to them. 2nd series packs have bright red wrappers. Packs should contain 8 cards plus a game card and a mini poster.

Haven't sent in the cards yet, waiting to see what the Sept. special is as I don't want to pay $8 per if a couple of them are borderline 8's, John

Morgoth

Great info, I see Steve has a few on his website.

Blackborder

I never paid much attention to this set but this is a great thread and I've developed an appreciation for the set. Interesting that Topps only chose 2 action shots for the set and used them as regular player cards since next year they would do a pro action subset and no regular cards as action shots. I believe this is also the first use of the air brushed logos that would be standard through the 81 set.

Morgoth

Yes the beginning of the graphic artist era for Topps . What do you guys think the print run differences were between football and baseball in 1971 were?

Blackborder

Is a PSA 9 Greene really worth $4,500? I don't know the SMR values but that seems incredible to me.

ebay link

Morgoth

I just chalk that up to the HOF Set Registry guys going nuts.

Morgoth

Got this one in today

Morgoth

I now have PSA 6 Namath for sale if anyone is interested, I also have a PSA 6.5 OJ Simpson for sale as well.
Thanks