Think of what they did back in the 1970s! Was this a set-up for the Future?
COINB0Y
Posts: 4,505
By the 1970s the federal government had once again permitted Americans to hold gold coins. But when it came time to actually mint them again, it made sure that gold coins could never circulate and displace the constantly depreciating paper currency printed by the US government: the law required that such coins could circulate with a face value only a tiny fraction of their market value.
Most everyone here has had to have in the back of their mind that the Government can do it to us again.
**Confiscate**
Congress could do it by passing a second law forbidding the melting of US Gold Coins, therby locking in the first Law above and limiting the value of the coins to face value.
Maybe Krugerrand? has no stated denomination.
Then again if they do that, they had better have instituted Marshall Law on the streets because members of such a congress who voted such a hideous law would be found strung up on lamp posts across the country for the Revolution will have begun again.
Most everyone here has had to have in the back of their mind that the Government can do it to us again.
**Confiscate**
Congress could do it by passing a second law forbidding the melting of US Gold Coins, therby locking in the first Law above and limiting the value of the coins to face value.
Maybe Krugerrand? has no stated denomination.
Then again if they do that, they had better have instituted Marshall Law on the streets because members of such a congress who voted such a hideous law would be found strung up on lamp posts across the country for the Revolution will have begun again.
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I knew it would happen.
Since 1933, when has a US Gold coin ever been worth its face value?
There is no way that this could happen as there is absolutely no driving force behind it. Gold is not circulating currency and therefore is worth it's bullion value which is how the US Government sells it.
Besides, as already stated, it was an Presidential Executive Order and not an act of Congress.
The name is LEE!
So for 50 weeks he got 50 Coins and got a W-2 based on $2,500 n wages.
The IRS sued and lost!
<< <i>It wasn't Congress who issued the confiscation proclamation in 1933. I don't know if the Supreme Court ever hear a case regarding confiscation of private property en masse, i.e., gold. Perhaps a test case is in order. >>
Not in gold. But SCOTUS has found for confiscation of property (a monopoly) when the actions are found sufficiently disruptive of the market. See for example, Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey v. United States, 221 U.S. 1 (1911). The Court's remedy was to divide the company into smaller entities, effectively confiscating property rights in the monopoly from the owners (including John D. Rockefeller), who were also fined.
History of the US Constitution Coin Set
A) a bipartisan Congress supported the President’s gold nationalization orders in 1933 and attempted to give the President completely open authority. However, the administration refused and everyone compromised on language in the Thomas Amendment, and other legislative acts. The President refused to use that portion which called for reduction in the silver content of the standard dollar.
[See the Yale Law Review, Jan 1934; Harvard Law Review, Jan 1934; Michigan Law Review, Nov 1934; Columbia Law Review, Apr 1948, and many other secondary sources for citations and discussion.]
<< <i>It's late, so most of this is from a carb-filled memory bank.......You ever hear about the company in Las Vegas that was paying wages with the Face Value of Gold Eagles as opposed to the spot price of Gold? Its legal tender. Thus a guy would get a $50 AGE for the week as payment for labor.
So for 50 weeks he got 50 Coins and got a W-2 based on $2,500 n wages.
The IRS sued and lost! >>
I remember reading this as well..Pretty cool
I knew it would happen.
I was responding to the OP. I think that the probability of such a case happening is less than 50%, but we do live in interesting times.
I knew it would happen.
That case will be cited hunderds of times in the future, mark that down!
I don't think such a law would limit the value of the coins to face value. The coins could still be exported, and there would still be significant demand in the U.S. for gold in coin form.
I think the 1933 gold coin recall was a one-time event, undertaken to enable the U.S. to devalue the dollar and permit the eventual decoupling of the dollar from gold. There would be no equivalent reason to repeat the process today.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Great Story isn't it?
That case will be cited hunderds of times in the future, mark that down! >>
The story (case) says it was a family business...In the Real world people expect a w-2 and pay taxes and Soc security.This situation is somewhat different than running a regular business.
<< <i>t's late, so most of this is from a carb-filled memory bank.......You ever hear about the company in Las Vegas that was paying wages with the Face Value of Gold Eagles as opposed to the spot price of Gold? Its legal tender. Thus a guy would get a $50 AGE for the week as payment for labor.
So for 50 weeks he got 50 Coins and got a W-2 based on $2,500 n wages.
The IRS sued and lost! >>
Well, not really. The employer only got a $2,500 deduction for the wages they "paid." If I was the employer, I would want the full deduction of the money I spent to acquire the 50 Gold Eagles.
If I was the IRS, I would be snickering in secret! Plus the employee does not get credit for the social security earnings he will want when he is ready to collect social security (certainly for the next 15-20 years).
roadrunner
<< <i>Well, not really. The employer only got a $2,500 deduction for the wages they "paid." If I was the employer, I would want the full deduction of the money I spent to acquire the 50 Gold Eagles.
If I was the IRS, I would be snickering in secret! Plus the employee does not get credit for the social security earnings he will want when he is ready to collect social security (certainly for the next 15-20 years). >>
I'm glad you brought this up. I was wondering how the employer would account for the difference between the cost of the gold Eagles and the wage expense. It seems like there is quite a disjoint between the employer's paid wages and the employee's wages received.
For one thing, the FLSA would require the employer to pay a non-exempt employee minimum wage at $6.55 an hour (higher in some states); plus overtime.
Here, the employer tried to avoid that by calling the workers independent contractors, but that would not prevent an employee from arguing that he or she was in fact an employee and suing on that basis. (Independent discretion and control over work are part of the tests to determine independent contractor status)
There's no real benefit to the employees either; when they sell the gold coins for melt, their gain would be taxable. Moreover, as independent contractors they would be responsible for whatever payroll taxes and withholding that would normally be provided by an employer.
This August 11 news article shows that this case is not over; moreover, the defense has acknowledged that Kahre and others might be forced to pay taxes owed; the real question is whether or not they can be charged criminally. Even if they win, the attorneys fees and headaches... not a good game plan.
August 11th Las Vegas News article
Of course not reporting the eventual sale of the coin would be harder than most think.
<< <i>It's late, so most of this is from a carb-filled memory bank.......You ever hear about the company in Las Vegas that was paying wages with the Face Value of Gold Eagles as opposed to the spot price of Gold? Its legal tender. Thus a guy would get a $50 AGE for the week as payment for labor.
So for 50 weeks he got 50 Coins and got a W-2 based on $2,500 n wages.
The IRS sued and lost! >>
Were they in compliance with miniumum wage laws at the time? $50 even at a twenty hour week is only $2.50 hour at that rate. Or was it a job cat that is excluded under the law?
Edited: should have read the rest of the post and link. Never mind.
Nixon eliminated the link between our gold reserves and our money in order to mask the cost of financing the war, and to dodge the OPEC bullet while inflating to keep the economy going. Ford had them stamp out tons of "Whip Inflation Now" buttons. Yeah, that worked.
Carter worked hard on the inflation problem by.........um.........by.........oh, that's right - by doing nothing - while inflation took off. Carter just hadn't figured out how to game the system like subsequent presidents have done, so he gets credit for the highest inflation rates in modern U.S. history, until now. I bought my first profitable silver and gold under Carter.
As far as being a setup for now, I don't think that they thought this far ahead when they legalized ownership of gold again, or even when they started minting gold coinage again.
As long as it doesn't compete with the fiat currency that they use to reinforce their power structure, hey - it's all cool. Those days might be numbered, not by any fault of gold, but by the epic mis-management of our financial system - a task that they just can't seem to accomplish honestly. It's not rocket science, at least not until they started cheating the public through the derivatives scams. Now, it's close to it. Not to worry, it won't last long like this. It simply can't.
I knew it would happen.