Better Career: Derek Jeter versus Ted Williams ...
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I started a thread here about whether Jeter's skills are in the decline. That thread appears to have morphed into a bit of Yankees versus Red Sox discussion.
The most recent post has user "baseball" saying that "I would WAY rather have the career that Jeter has had, with the four rings and 1st ballot HoF career, than the career (even with all the gawdy stats), that the winless Ted Williams had."
I think that is a very interesting comparison. Of course, Jeter's career isn't finished. But I think we can guestimate as to where his career numbers are headed. That said, who's career would you rather have?
There are many considerations. Like baseball said, Jeter has four (4) championships to Williams' zero (0). But I think Williams is the better hitter and perhaps the best hitter of all-time. Williams is already a HOFer and Jeter is a lock if there has ever been one. Who is more revered/respected in baseball history. Amazingly, I think Williams is. But I can easily see how others may disagreed. I recall reading somewhere that "Derek Jeter is the face of baseball."
For me, while I am a stats guru, I think I have to go with Jeter. But if Williams had even one (1) championship, then I would have gone with Williams. You?
/s/ JackWESQ
The most recent post has user "baseball" saying that "I would WAY rather have the career that Jeter has had, with the four rings and 1st ballot HoF career, than the career (even with all the gawdy stats), that the winless Ted Williams had."
I think that is a very interesting comparison. Of course, Jeter's career isn't finished. But I think we can guestimate as to where his career numbers are headed. That said, who's career would you rather have?
There are many considerations. Like baseball said, Jeter has four (4) championships to Williams' zero (0). But I think Williams is the better hitter and perhaps the best hitter of all-time. Williams is already a HOFer and Jeter is a lock if there has ever been one. Who is more revered/respected in baseball history. Amazingly, I think Williams is. But I can easily see how others may disagreed. I recall reading somewhere that "Derek Jeter is the face of baseball."
For me, while I am a stats guru, I think I have to go with Jeter. But if Williams had even one (1) championship, then I would have gone with Williams. You?
/s/ JackWESQ
0
Comments
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For evaluating individual players, titles matter only in golf, singles tennis, and ping pong. They have no place for measuring individuals in team sports, and that has been shown ad nauseum to be such a faulty measure that it is amazing people still use it.
If one wants to use it as a measuring stick for measuring TEAMS, then fine(though there is still the luck factor there).
If somebody is seriously considering that Derek Jeter is even on par with Ted WIlliams as a player, then they need to be b#@$# slapped, plain and simple, as they don't know much.
If somebody is making the argument that they would rather have Jeter's excellent career, AND the benefit of being LUCKY ENOUGH to be on four WS teams, as opposed to Ted Williams career as one of the top five players in the history of baseball....then that is a personal decision. SOme like to make hay themselves, while others prefer to have others carry them, so be it.
Keep this in mind...
If Jeter is drafted by any other team than the New York Yankees when he started, he would not be Derek Jeter the 'title man' as many refer to him. This conversation would be nonexistent(as it should be anyway).
If Ted Williams were drafted by ANY other team than the Red Sox, HE WOULD STILL BE ONE OF THE TOP FIVE PLAYERS IN HISTORY!
In other words, most of Jeter's fame comes from the result of being LUCKY ENOUGH to have played with the best teammates in the league. Jeter wasn't even the captain on those teams.
Ted Williams's fame comes from Ted Williams's doing.
THEIR PLACE IN HISTORY...
Aside from a few NY zealots, Ted Williams is viewed and respected so much higher than Derek Jeter it is ridiculous. To be considered by many as THE BEST HITTER THAT HAS EVER LIVED, FAR FAR FAR outweighs Jeter being fortunate enough to have played on 4 WS teams.
For Pete's sake, 4 WS teams is nothing compared to other players who have played on more, and who were better than Jeter, so dont' get all wet because he was on 4. IF he was truly some mythical winner that some claim, then why hasn't he done anything since 2000? Oh, pitching...gets you every time! Jeter may have played on 4 WS teams, but he also played on the team that had the biggest choke job in the history of sports. Without the excellent teammates, again, this conversation isn't here(as it should not be now).
MORE ON THEIR PLACE IN HISTORY...
Ted Williams is not only known as the best hitter ever, but it is his persona that makes him even more legendary. John Wayne used Ted Williams as a motivation to get into character for his tough persona's. And Ted did back that up with his war hero status! He was truly a Man's man. No need to give a history lesson on Williams and the war. I figure Jeter would wet his pants when it really counted there.
And nobody PLEASE bring up Joe Dimaggio as a title guy, because before you do that, please check how often the Yankees had the best pitching staff in the league. That my friends is what determined the title race between those two.
Derek Jeter will never be known in the same circles as Ted Williams. Only the few Jeter zealots who spout this nonsense will even come close to putting Jeter on par with Williams.
Pardon me while I go throw up.
I think you ought to lighten up, LOL! No one here thinks Derek Jeter is a better player than Ted Williams. We're just having some fun. But I do believe you greatly underestimate how significant championships mean to players of team sports (more so in football than baseball, IMO, but that's a topic for another thread). Obviously, you never played professional ball (as I doubt any of us on this board have), but I'd say that for many players winning a title as a member of a team is the highlight or at least one of the top achievements in a career, and many players have gone on record as saying so. While the greatest hitter of all time is a title that Williams can certainly claim, I bet (if we were still living) he'd trade in some of his statistical accomplishments for a championship ring or two.
The point of this thread, or at least how I took it, is which career is the one that YOU'D aspire to have if you had the choice. And while the title of greatest hitter in history is the one I'd choose to have (Williams'), winning 4 World Series championships in New York is pretty special, too. We all know about the luck factor there, blah , blah, blah, but bottom line is a championship is what every player on every team aspires to achieve on Opening Day, so that cannot be discounted either, IMO. In short, this is NOT a thread to objectively discuss the merits or stature of these two players, but a hypothetical proposition. I'm surprised such a whimsical concept as this has escaped your grasp...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I know that players often say they would trade it for a chance to win a title. In my post I basically said that was personal choice. In other words, the player is saying they would rather have had some good luck and better teammates though!!! That is really ALL that is separating titles from one great to another( In any sport!). Though Jeter is not near the great as Williams.
WHat I was basically refering to was the question in the original post that said, "Who is more revered/respected in baseball history"
That is a ridiculous question, and anyone that thinks Jeter is even close to the realm of Ted Williams is either a Jeter zealot, or a moron.
The title garbage...
I first responded to that aspect of logic...that is the warped logic people do when they evaluate individual team players based on TEAM titles. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with the goal of winning a championship...obviously that is the goal and is the bigguest no duh.
The thrust of my post was in regard to their "respect/revered place in history."
You can choose to have the titles, that is fine to choose something where the dependency of others is in so desperate need, as opposed to what you can control.
To me, I don't know how Jeter can honestly look himself in the mirror when he gets all of this over-hyped praise and 'credit' for all those titles, when in fact, if it wasn't for the goodness of his teammates, he would have zero.
If you chose the path of taking all the over-hyped credit and leaving barely a crumb for the rest of your teammates, then that is fine.
That is the phenomenon of Derek Jeter fans and lovers.
Ted Williams doing was his. His is bascially an 'honest' accomplishment, and what accomplishment it was!
Actually, the title of the thread is "Better Career: Jeter vs. Williams" which can be interpreted a couple of different ways. If the title were "Who is more revered/respected in baseball history," as you say, then I agree with you 100%. But it wasn't.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There is actually that "revered/respected" posed within the first post. Fourth paragraph.
Baseball,
To me, I don't know how Jeter can honestly look himself in the mirror when he gets all of this over-hyped praise and 'credit' for all those titles, when in fact, if it wasn't for the goodness of his teammates, he would have zero.
If you choose the path of taking all the over-hyped credit and leaving barely a crumb for the rest of your teammates, then that is fine.
That is the phenomenon of Derek Jeter fans and lovers.
Ted Williams doing was his. His is bascially an 'honest' accomplishment, and what accomplishment it was!
In his post, he says that, yes, but that's not in the title. The title of the thread is what I was responding to, personally.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Skin,
I think you ought to lighten up, LOL! No one here thinks Derek Jeter is a better player than Ted Williams. We're just having some fun. But I do believe you greatly underestimate how significant championships mean to players of team sports (more so in football than baseball, IMO, but that's a topic for another thread). Obviously, you never played professional ball (as I doubt any of us on this board have), but I'd say that for many players winning a title as a member of a team is the highlight or at least one of the top achievements in a career, and many players have gone on record as saying so. While the greatest hitter of all time is a title that Williams can certainly claim, I bet (if we were still living) he'd trade in some of his statistical accomplishments for a championship ring or two.
The point of this thread, or at least how I took it, is which career is the one that YOU'D aspire to have if you had the choice. And while the title of greatest hitter in history is the one I'd choose to have (Williams'), winning 4 World Series championships in New York is pretty special, too. We all know about the luck factor there, blah , blah, blah, but bottom line is a championship is what every player on every team aspires to achieve on Opening Day, so that cannot be discounted either, IMO. In short, this is NOT a thread to objectively discuss the merits or stature of these two players, but a hypothetical proposition. I'm surprised such a whimsical concept as this has escaped your grasp... >>
This is exactly how I also interpreted the question the OP posed. The question is NOT who is the better baseball player. Also, look at all the hotties that Jeter has shagged. That, my friend, may be the deciding factor.
He has pitched 18 years in the big leagues and has only pitched 100 innings once.
His teams have appeared in 10 post-seasons.
He has played on four World Series winning teams.
In 1992 he fielded the final out of the World Series and brought a championship to an entire COUNTRY not just a city.
In 2004 he was on a team that ended an 86 year World Series drought and brought a championship to a NATION.
In 1993 he got to run out on the field and mob Joe Carter after he hit a World Series Winning homer.
He has made 35 million dollars in his career being a closer for two years and a set-up guy for the rest.
<< <i>Hoopster, the more I reflect on your attitudes about Jeter, your problem should not be with Jeter at all as he is the first one to praise his teammates in interviews. Your problem is with the media. I'm sorry I can't help you there. >>
Agreed. I truly 'hate' only three professional sports franchises: The Yankees, the Celtics and the Maple Leafs. But I have never seen an interview with Jeter where he wasn't poised and gracious.
Jeter doesn't campaign for the praise, but his fans certainly give him that type. I also don't see him going out of his way to correct it.
I certainly would not like to receive all that praise, while all my partners get crumbs.
And yes, people do say stuff all the time about Ted Williams not being able to win a title. Then they contrast him to Dimaggio and call Dimaggio a winner, hence Williams a 'loser'.
Are people that dumb to not realize the effect of teammates? Yes they are, as they neglect it all the time. Are they that dumb to not realize that almost every season Joe Dimaggio's team's led the league in ERA? Geez, you think that might have something to do with the title disparity? Yet people just see titles won or lost, without digging a little deeper, or just using some freaking logic.
By you choosing Jeter getting a false share of credit, and not taking what WIlliams did, you are basically falling into that logic.
<< <i>
Baseball,
To me, I don't know how Jeter can honestly look himself in the mirror when he gets all of this over-hyped praise and 'credit' for all those titles, when in fact, if it wasn't for the goodness of his teammates, he would have zero.
>>
That's how team sports work. Is Michael Jordan "over hyped" even though he clearly could not have won the Finals without Kukoc or Rodman?
PS- you took the original post WAY too seriously and somehow manipulated it into something you could analyze to death.
I certainly would not like to receive all that praise, while all my partners get crumbs.
That's pretty funny, coming from a guy with an ego as large as yours...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
That is NOT how team sports work. Team sports aren't 25 men working towards the goal of a championship, and then having only one singled out as having won all these 'titles' seemingly on his own.
It should never be said that Derek Jeter has four titles. The correct statement should be that he was on FOUR Yankee championship teams, and that he was an important player. He didnt' win them, the Yankees did.
Goot, I watch almost every Bulls game in Jordan's career, and he was every bit as good pre title years, as he was post title years. He should be given the same credit as a basketball player his first part of his career, as he did his second part. The better teammates helped him win the titles, and that doesnt' change how good he was. He should be viewed irrespective of how good others are, only HE!
The same goes for Jeter, and in baseball it is far easier to isolate the value of an individual player, and there is ABSOLUTELY no need to use titles as any type of measurement for them.
<< <i>Baseball,
Jeter doesn't campaign for the praise, but his fans certainly give him that type. I also don't see him going out of his way to correct it.
I certainly would not like to receive all that praise, while all my partners get crumbs.
And yes, people do say stuff all the time about Ted Williams not being able to win a title. Then they contrast him to Dimaggio and call Dimaggio a winner, hence Williams a 'loser'.
Are people that dumb to not realize the effect of teammates? Yes they are, as they neglect it all the time. Are they that dumb to not realize that almost every season Joe Dimaggio's team's led the league in ERA? Geez, you think that might have something to do with the title disparity? Yet people just see titles won or lost, without digging a little deeper, or just using some freaking logic.
By you choosing Jeter getting a false share of credit, and not taking what WIlliams did, you are basically falling into that logic. >>
Are people dumb? On average, yes. But, it bears mentioning that nobody in this thread has suggested that Williams was an inferior baseball player to Jeter. And I think if you asked baseball, or any other Yankee fan on this board, they would willingly admit that Jeter is not in Williams' league.
<< <i>Goot,
That is NOT how team sports work. Team sports aren't 25 men working towards the goal of a championship, and then having only one singled out as having won all these 'titles' seemingly on his own.
It should never be said that Derek Jeter has four titles. The correct statement should be that he was on FOUR Yankee championship teams, and that he was an important player. He didnt' win them, the Yankees did.
Goot, I watch almost every Bulls game in Jordan's career, and he was every bit as good pre title years, as he was post title years. He should be given the same credit as a basketball player his first part of his career, as he did his second part. The better teammates helped him win the titles, and that doesnt' change how good he was. He should be viewed irrespective of how good others are, only HE!
The same goes for Jeter, and in baseball it is far easier to isolate the value of an individual player, and there is ABSOLUTELY no need to use titles as any type of measurement for them. >>
No way Jordan was a good pre '90 as we was post '90. For one thing, he developed a mid range jumper some time after the second championship. And he also learned how to pass after getting shut down by Dumars in the late '80's. Jordan was a complete basketball player by 1993. Before then he was a souped up version of Jason Richardson.
I am not saying anybody in this thread said Jeter was a better player. I stated that argument at the top of my post in case anybody WAS thinking it.
Again, as I said for the third time now, my post was directed more towards the "most respected/revered" player aspect that was posed in the original question.
The second aspect has to do with the evaluating of individuals with titles, and that INDEED does go on all the time on these boards. I said enough on that.
Jordan passed quite well before they won those titles. He was an excellent passer, its just that passing to Gene Banks isn't always the best idea. His mid range jumper was also fine as well in those years. He later developed a stronger post game(that was more in their SECOND title run). This is when he traded his more explosive to the basket game, for the low post game.
Boo, you gonna say he learned all that stuff you are saying during the summer of 1990? Because one year he didn't have a title, and then the next he did.
He was a better basketball player in 1989, then he was in his last title. Especially defensively!
Good night fellas. Baseball, dream good dreams about your guy and his rings.
Grote, you don't know me, and have no idea how I accept any sort of praise. You are off, plain and simple.
<< <i>Boo,
I am not saying anybody in this thread said Jeter was a better player. I said that in general at the top.
Again, as I said for the third time now, my post was directed more towards the "most respected/revered" player aspect that was posed in the original question.
The second aspect has to do with the evaluating of individuals with titles, and that INDEED does go on all the time on these boards. I said enough on that.
Jordan passed quite well before they won those titles. He was an excellent passer, its just that passing to Gene Banks isn't always the best idea. His mid range jumper was also fine as well in those years. He later developed a stronger post game(that was more in their SECOND title run). This is when he traded his more explosive to the basket game, for the low post game.
Boo, you gonna say he learned all that stuff you are saying during the summer of 1990? Because one year he didn't have a title, and then the next he did.
He was a better basketball player in 1989, then he was in his last title. Especially defensively! >>
I spoke in haste. Upon further reflection I agree that the Jordan from about 1988-1990 was as good as the post-'90 Jordan. But the pre-1988 Jordan was still pretty raw. And the Jordan of 1989 was definitely better than the Jordan of 1997.
<< <i>Boo,
I am not saying anybody in this thread said Jeter was a better player. I stated that argument at the top of my post in case anybody WAS thinking it.
Again, as I said for the third time now, my post was directed more towards the "most respected/revered" player aspect that was posed in the original question.
The second aspect has to do with the evaluating of individuals with titles, and that INDEED does go on all the time on these boards. I said enough on that.
>>
Yes, I too have had it with the 'titles' factor. Exhibit 'A' would be the Bill Russell slappies.
I would agree that Jordan's first couple of seasons were a little more raw.
Anyways,
You have a knack for making good intentioned threads, like this one, unbearable because you want to turn everything into a HOF debate of some sort.
Now I'm going to answer the ORIGINAL QUESTION. I would rather have Jeter's career. To be a HOFer AND know the feeling of achieving something with my team as amazing as a World Series, FOUR times, is simply something I could not pass up.
Money: Jeter in a landslide.
Pure stats: Williams of course. And this, arguably, translates into hitting ability.
Championships ... however acquired: Jeter, of course since Williams has none.
Shagging women: Probably Jeter, but I can't be sure. (Had to throw this in there for Boopotts.)
Respect of HIS peers: Very tough call. More so because Williams' peers, e.g. players that played from 1939 to 1960, are few and far between who are still alive. (Maybe we should ask Stan Musial what kind of respect Ted Williams garnered from him and other players during Williams' playing days.)
Respect/Revered in baseball history: While Jeter isn't done, I'd have to give the nod to Williams.
So when I ask who has/had the better career, there are a myriad of considerations. Like so many things in life, no single factor is determinative.
/s/ JackWESQ
Hoop,
Once again, you need to lighten up..I was only kidding you (that's what the winky smiley face wasa for). You seem uptight tonight. Maybe a scotch and water will fix that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
On the OP's thread title- Jeter has had a MUCH better career hands down. 4 WS rings holds more water than 0 rings any day of the week, Ted Williams was a better hitter than Jeter and to no fault of Teddy Ballgame had he played for the Yankees and not missed 5 seasons to the military he would have been considered as good as Babe Ruth IMO but the bottom line is he didnt.
Im a Yankee hater but have nothing but respect and admiration for Derek Jeter.
<< <i>My original query was who had the better career. There were and are no limitations as to how to judge who had the better career, to wit.
Money: Jeter in a landslide.
Pure stats: Williams of course. And this, arguably, translates into hitting ability.
Championships ... however acquired: Jeter, of course since Williams has none.
Shagging women: Probably Jeter, but I can't be sure. (Had to throw this in there for Boopotts.)
Respect of HIS peers: Very tough call. More so because Williams' peers, e.g. players that played from 1939 to 1960, are few and far between who are still alive. (Maybe we should ask Stan Musial what kind of respect Ted Williams garnered from him and other players during Williams' playing days.)
Respect/Revered in baseball history: While Jeter isn't done, I'd have to give the nod to Williams.
So when I ask who has/had the better career, there are a myriad of considerations. Like so many things in life, no single factor is determinative.
/s/ JackWESQ >>
You asked it in a very open ended way. You not only asked "who's career would you rather have?" but also "who is more respected in baseball history".
Confused many of us.
I still find hoopster highly pedantic.
Nah, not Hoop, I mean, Skin...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
In addition to the reasons already discussed, Williams' career just about defines frustration. On the team level, there's the constant losing and the feeling of helplessness - I imagine the thought "what more can I do" had to go through his head frequently. On the individual level, how must it feel to hit .400 and lose the MVP to your main rival? Better or worse than losing it the next year to a Yankee whose name must have been picked randomly out of a hat? Yes, Jeter gets way more attention and credit than he deserves and Williams less; but that's an argument FOR preferring Jeter's career, not AGAINST it!
Bottom line, I just don't see how Williams career would have been nearly as much fun or as rewarding as Jeter's. We are, after all, talking about making a career out of playing a game. What is the point of that other than to enjoy the ride? Whatever satisfaction Williams got from being one of the game's all-time best could not possibly make up for an entire career of frustration.
You guys still talking about this?
I didn't need a sctoch and water...trying to cut back. And no, I didn't have any last night.
Jacks Criteria below...MINE IN CAPS ADDED
Money: Jeter in a landslide. YES JETER.
Pure stats. (Should actually read better player). WILLIAMS BIG TIME
Championships ... however acquired: Jeter, of course since Williams has none. YES JETER
Shagging women: Probably Jeter, but I can't be sure. (Had to throw this in there for Boopotts.) DON'T BE SO SURE ABOUT JETER HERE.
Respect of HIS peers: SEEING THAT JETER RECEIVED MANY OVERRATED VOTES FROM PEERS, AND WE ALL KNOW ABOUT TED; WILLIAMS BIG TIME!
Respect/Revered in baseball history: While Jeter isn't done, I'd have to give the nod to Williams. WILLIAMS IN HUGE LANDSLIDE! THIS IS THE JIST OF MY FIRST POST.
MORE CRITERIA....
PERSONA; Williams was a Man's man. John Wayne emulated him. Landslide, Ted Williams.
ICON. Ted Williams was an icon during baseball's golden age. A fan seeing Ted Williams then would be like visiting a God. Jeter, not quite. LANDSLIDE, TEd Williams
BEST EVER. To take a page out of Dallas's book, Ted is known by many as the best hitter who ever lived. Not many can claim such a high honor. Jeter is not the best ever 'title' guy. This puts Ted Williams in a place alongside the likes of Zeus and Hercules. Jeter, no. LANDSLIDE. Ted Williams.
HERO. To me, this is the trump card. How many people can be called the greatest ever at anything in sports, AND also be called a true War Hero as well? TED WILLIAMS. If Jeter volunteers to go to Iraq, then I will eat crow. He would pee down his coddled leg!!
Ted Williams posed for pictures with Babe Ruth(at Ruth's desire!), played against Joe Dimaggio and Mickey Mantle...and he flew fighter planes with John Glenn!! Give me a freaking break.
Jeter played in the tainted era, and he was quite skinny as a young man, not so much later on.....hmmm. LANDSLIDE TED WILLIAMS!
Because of all of this, Ted Williams will always be a Zeuss like figure. Jeter will NEVER be.
Final tally... LANDSLIDE TED WILLIAMS.
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
As Fett said, the respect he was shown by the current players during the '99(I think it was '99) All Star game, is something Derek Jeter will never be able to experience on a level like that. That was reserved for a true giant.
Just look how Tony Gwynn, a hitter of great stature himself, was reduced to looking like a kid who was talking to Santa Claus, when he and Ted had that duo interview on hitting.
I will say it again, John Wayne emulated him, Babe Ruth sought him out to meet him, he flew planes with John Glenn in war time, and during the last 20 years of his life, people indeed paid him the respect akin to a God.
There is no way I would trade that just to be lucky enough like Jeter to have excellent teammates for four years. No way. Doesn't compare.
P.S. Ted was a very good looking man, and even though any woman exploits were kept hush back then, I have no doubt he had the choice of any woman he wanted in his hey day. VitoCo, I don't think you would have had a problem getting a lady while being Ted for a day...and heck, back then the lady would have probably cooked him a steak too. Nothing wrong with a steak and a BJ.
<< <i>This argument isn't as stupid as I thought it was going to be when I clicked on the thread >>
No, it's actually even worse.
There is nothing I can add to what Hoopster already said. Well, there is - but it wouldn't make it past the censors here.
Tune in tomorrow for another gripping discussion - "Who had the better career - Coco Crisp or Mickey Mantle?"
<< <i>Tune in tomorrow for another gripping discussion - "Who had the better career - Coco Crisp or Mickey Mantle?" >>
Coco can play a mean centerfield. Plus, he's got a cooler name. Coco in a landslide.
Williams did have some support during his career like Bobby Doer and Dom Dimaggio later it was Jackie Jensen and Frankie Malzone otherwise thier dominance was fair at best
I have to take Ted.
So who had the better reer, Cindy Crawford or Jennifer Lopez
I must say that Hoopster has made a good case for Ted.
No they are not. They in fact know more then you give them credit for.
Steve
This first quote is in regard to a painting that General MacArthur sent Williams as a birthday present....
"Carroll called the next day. The General's wife answered. She was cold. Carroll talked at his salesman's warp speed. Ted Williams! The ballplayer! General MacArthur is his idol! Ted Williams! Ted Williams! The General's wife warmed a little bit. She said that the irony was that the General also thought very highly of Ted Williams. He considered Williams to be the personification of the American ideal, the true man's man. Ted Williams? Okay, she gave Carroll the phone number and extension of the General's office. Good luck. Carroll dialed.
Unveiled in Room 231, the large face of MacArthur stared at the party group. The inscription read: "To Ted Williams--Not only America's greatest baseball player, but a great American who served his country. Your friend, Doug MacArthur. General U.S. Army." Williams was delighted. He placed the picture on the mantel above the fireplace.
Everyone stared in appropriate wonder. How far can a kid from nowhere in San Diego travel by hitting a baseball? This far.
This far indeed."
IF YOU CAN'T ACCEPT ME(SKIN) SAYING WILLIAMS WAS A MAN'S MAN, THEN HOW DOES IT SOUND COMING FROM GENERAL MACARTHUR???? Jeter who?
Here is more on his women...
"Ted Willams's personal life was equally colorful. His attraction to women (and their attraction to him) was a constant. He was married and divorced three times and he fathered two daughters and a son. He was one of corporate America's first modern spokesmen, and he remained, nearly into his eighties, a fiercely devoted fisherman."
On the level of his fame and being admired...
"The fame of Ted Williams in Boston and in much of the country during his baseball life was different from the fame of today. There is no analogy to make, really, to the situation of some living, modern famous person. Williams was closer to a figure from mythology or fiction, to a comic strip character, to Spiderman, Superman, Popeye the Sailor Man. Or more."
"One night Williams let Jimmy use the car for a date. Jimmy took the woman to Hugo's Lighthouse, a restaurant in suburban Cohasset. As he parked the car, a large policeman appeared. The policeman asked if Jimmy was a baseball player. Jimmy laughed and said he wasn't, but why would someone ask? The policeman said, "Because you're driving Ted Williams's car." Jimmy asked how the policeman would know this. The policeman said he just knew, that a lot of people knew what Ted Williams's car looked like. Everybody did.
"Could I ask you a favor?" the policeman also asked, after all of this business was done.
"Sure," Jimmy said.
"While you're eating, while you're in the restaurant, would it be possible for me just to sit in the car? Ted's car?"
"Sure," Jimmy said.
He and his date ate their dinners. They came out of the restaurant. Six policemen--the original one and five of his friends--now were inside the car. Touching Ted's leather upholstery. Twirling Ted's chrome knobs. Trying to breathe Ted's air. Just once."
So lets get this straight, Ted Williams was admired as a player and a person by the likes of Babe Ruth, John Wayne, John Glenn, and Douglas MacArthur(whom called Ted the ideal American and a true man's man). His fame is likened to Spider Man and Super Man. He flew 38 combat missions in war...It has also been said that Roosevelt called Ted Williams the best pilot ever. And of course..."there goes the best hitter that ever lived."
AND PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT DEREK JETER? Good grief!
There is simply no comparison in any facet one can imagine, between Ted Williams and Derek Jeter.
<< <i>I wanted to add to my previous post that any frustrations Ted Williams felt because of lack of MVP votes, or because of not winning a WS, was more than made up for with all the adulation he received the last 15-20 years of his life. >>
If that would be enough for you, then I understand your choice and more power to you.
It wouldn't be enough for me. Not even close to enough. Which is why the choice is such an easy one for me.
It should probably go without saying, but there is no right answer to this question. I'm not sure everyone completely gets that, though.
Case closed.
To be honest I'd rather have the life that Williams had but I'd take the baseball career that Jeter HAS.
Steve
<< <i>To be honest I'd rather have the life that Williams had but I'd take the baseball career that Jeter HAS.
Steve >>
Im thinking the same thing.
However, Jeter, probably will never be regarded in the same light as Williams as an individual player. Jeter is one of the many great hitters of his time (Griffey Jr., Arod, Pujols, Ramirez, Guerrero, etc.)
Williams is mentioned in the same breath as Gehrig Ruth Cobb - a little different company.