UPPER DECK - 2008 GOUDEY - Do the numbers add up??
hofautos
Posts: 1,934
How many cases do you believe UD Goudey will sell?
Something doesn't add up to me.
There are reportedly 100 DIFFERENT Sports Royalty autos
There are 25 that are reportedly numbered 50 or less.
That means there are 75 that are 51 or more (probably 100+)
If they say only one SR auto per case, that they are selling a minimum of 7500 cases?
Even if that is the case, the part that disturbs me the most is that of the 75 different ones that are 50 or more, you should see
an "even" amount of each of those 75 show up on ebay, but they are showing up in SPURTS, like 20 Bruce jenners, 20 Matt Biondis, 20 Kerri Walsh, etc....
How come we aren't seeing an even amount of all 75 that are numbered 50+???
They pulled this same crap with the 2007. They are not "randomly" inserting all of the cards.
I call FOUL PLAY.
Unfortunately, there is NO GOVERNING AGENCY that watches over them "PRINT THEIR MONEY".
The logic in numbers alone shows there is "FUNNY BUSINESS" going on. I wish there was a way to prove it, and file a class action law suit.
Something doesn't add up to me.
There are reportedly 100 DIFFERENT Sports Royalty autos
There are 25 that are reportedly numbered 50 or less.
That means there are 75 that are 51 or more (probably 100+)
If they say only one SR auto per case, that they are selling a minimum of 7500 cases?
Even if that is the case, the part that disturbs me the most is that of the 75 different ones that are 50 or more, you should see
an "even" amount of each of those 75 show up on ebay, but they are showing up in SPURTS, like 20 Bruce jenners, 20 Matt Biondis, 20 Kerri Walsh, etc....
How come we aren't seeing an even amount of all 75 that are numbered 50+???
They pulled this same crap with the 2007. They are not "randomly" inserting all of the cards.
I call FOUL PLAY.
Unfortunately, there is NO GOVERNING AGENCY that watches over them "PRINT THEIR MONEY".
The logic in numbers alone shows there is "FUNNY BUSINESS" going on. I wish there was a way to prove it, and file a class action law suit.
0
Comments
Doesn't Upper Deck profess in their advertising, or isn't it implied, that ALL autos are RANDOMLY INSERTED?
If I plan on investing THOUSANDS of dollars on this set, and I suspect UD of foul play, what can I do?
They REALLY PO'd me with Goudey 2007, and I was very close to contacting legal, but they finally sent me a few good cards, and I never
purused it.
But I think the public should be aware of my suspicions as well.
I am going to go on spending and piecing much of this set together, but I promise, if I start seeing the SAME CRAP as I did with 2007 Goudey,
that will be it. It will be it for me and cards all together, and I promise someone at UD will pay.
DOESN'T LOOK LIKE RANDOM TO ME
<< <i>The "I didn't get the cards I wanted so I'm going to go for a class action lawsuit" angle is played out. If you don't like the product, don't buy any of it. >>
You are an idiot, and should go work for UD.
I like the product.
I don't bust wax.
I am looking at sure numbers of what is being sold and the odds extremely suggest foul play by UD.
I didn't ask for any moron advice.
<< <i>
<< <i>The "I didn't get the cards I wanted so I'm going to go for a class action lawsuit" angle is played out. If you don't like the product, don't buy any of it. >>
You are an idiot, and should go work for UD.
I like the product.
I don't bust wax.
I am looking at sure numbers of what is being sold and the odds extremely suggest foul play by UD.
I didn't ask for any moron advice. >>
Wow...a completely cool-headed, succinct response from our resident scholar. Not over-the-top at all. You are to be commended for your ability to control your temper.
<< <i>Are there any lawyers in the house?
Doesn't Upper Deck profess in their advertising, or isn't it implied, that ALL autos are RANDOMLY INSERTED?
If I plan on investing THOUSANDS of dollars on this set, and I suspect UD of foul play, what can I do?
They REALLY PO'd me with Goudey 2007, and I was very close to contacting legal, but they finally sent me a few good cards, and I never
purused it.
But I think the public should be aware of my suspicions as well.
I am going to go on spending and piecing much of this set together, but I promise, if I start seeing the SAME CRAP as I did with 2007 Goudey,
that will be it. It will be it for me and cards all together, and I promise someone at UD will pay.
DOESN'T LOOK LIKE RANDOM TO ME >>
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
<< <i>Ever read 'Card Sharks'? >>
Great book! Link
<< <i>What did they send you when you confronted them?
>>
Of course they didn't admit to any wrongdoing, all they would say is that "nothing is guaranteed".
I got a mediocre SR auto (forget who), and also got a Griffey patch auto (WBC), that sold for about $400.
Overall, I made some decent money on the Goudey set.
I bought the first SR auto of dice-k to show up on ebay for $200 (redemptions took forever) and sold it days later for $550.
I also ended up making quite a bit on the Goudey SR Auto SP's as several of them kept going up, so i guess my anger with them subsided.
I just figured UD tried too hard to get the set out before it was ready to ship....but it looks like UD is pulling the exact same crap with 2008 as they did with 2007.
CLEARLY, ONE OF THREE THINGS IS HAPPENING.
1. They don't have all of the autos (or redemptions printed) to insert randomly, and just let the hobbyists believe ALL are being inserted randomly.
2. The hourly workers that do the insertions are backdooring the good autos.
3. UD is holding out purposely and not inserting randomly.
My guess is answer 1. I would bet my life on it...there's just no way to prove it....but anyone with an ounce of marbles could look at the numbers and see
that not all the cards are being inserted randomly.
They also announced 2007 SR autos of Maddux, carpenter, and a few others I forget that never occurred. I think they have some disclaimer in their checklists that states the list is not necessarily accurate.
You really are the biggest clown I've ever encountered in this hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>What did they send you when you confronted them?
>>
Of course they didn't admit to any wrongdoing, all they would say is that "nothing is guaranteed".
I got a mediocre SR auto (forget who), and also got a Griffey patch auto (WBC), that sold for about $400.
Overall, I made some decent money on the Goudey set.
I bought the first SR auto of dice-k to show up on ebay for $200 (redemptions took forever) and sold it days later for $550.
I also ended up making quite a bit on the Goudey SR Auto SP's as several of them kept going up, so i guess my anger with them subsided.
I just figured they tried to hard to get the set out before it was ready to ship....but it looks like the same crap as last time.
CLEARLY, ONE OF THREE THINGS IS HAPPENING.
1. They don't have all of the autos (or redemptions printed) to insert randomly.
2. The hourly workers that do the insertions are backdooring the good autos
3. UD is holding out purposely and not inserting randomly.
I would bet my life on it...there's just no way to prove it....but anyone with an ounce of marbles could look at the numbers and see
that not all the cards are being inserted randomly. >>
I think you're jumping the gun a bit on the conspiracy theory
I've cracked 6 boxes from 3 different locations and pulled a less than 50 SR (Griffey), a less than 100 SP (McCovey) and another SR not on the SP list (Gary Hall Jr.)
none of the 3 I pulled are being sold so I guess they don't exist.
<< <i>Interesting to see that your anger can be purchased for such small treasure.
>>
Anger is something that should be easily overcome.
For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning.
I want to believe
<< <i>The product had been out for 6 days. How quick do you expect to see autos with a print run of less than 100 and 50 to get pulled and then listed on Ebay?
I think you're jumping the gun a bit on the conspiracy theory
I've cracked 6 boxes from 3 different locations and pulled a less than 50 SR (Griffey), a less than 100 SP (McCovey) and another SR not on the SP list (Gary Hall Jr.)
none of the 3 I pulled are being sold so I guess they don't exist. >>
I hear what you are saying, but I watched 2007 goudey for several months. Of course you will only see a percentage of cards show up on ebay, but you would see a percentage across the board, not spurts of some and none of others, especially over a course of time. Look at the numbers over time, and you will see that all of the cards are not available. Some will be made available later, again in "spurts", not random. There is no way to explain the disbursement unless they don't have all of the autos already. Call UD support and ask them what they have to say. They didn't admit it at first about no 2007 Goudey Maddux for example...only months through the product would they even admit it to me...and now it is common knowledge.
Just follow the numbers and make your own conclusions. I am only following SR autos, and will keep the spreadsheet updated, and you tell me what you believe after a few months. If you want to believe that UD has ALL the autos already and they are randomly inserting them ALL, that is your perrogative. People can think I am crazy, but I tell you that it's enough for me to make quit this hobby...when there is dishonesty going on at the manufacturing level of the hobby. At least that should make SCHR1st happy.
Someone, please call UD and ask them if they have all the SR autos and if they are inserting all of them randomly, and ask them to explain the spreadsheet....you will get some HO-HUMS...see if you believe them...I went that route with them with last years.
<< <i>
<< <i>The product had been out for 6 days. How quick do you expect to see autos with a print run of less than 100 and 50 to get pulled and then listed on Ebay?
I think you're jumping the gun a bit on the conspiracy theory
I've cracked 6 boxes from 3 different locations and pulled a less than 50 SR (Griffey), a less than 100 SP (McCovey) and another SR not on the SP list (Gary Hall Jr.)
none of the 3 I pulled are being sold so I guess they don't exist. >>
I hear what you are saying, but I watched 2007 goudey for several months. Of course you will only see a percentage of cards show up on ebay, but you would see a percentage across the board, not spurts of some and none of others, especially over a course of time. Look at the numbers over time, and you will see that all of the cards are not available. Some will be made available later, again in "spurts", not random. There is no way to explain the disbursement unless they don't have all of the autos already. Call UD support and ask them what they have to say. They didn't admit it at first about no 2007 Goudey Maddux for example...only months through the product would they even admit it to me...and now it is common knowledge.
Just follow the numbers and make your own conclusions. I am only following SR autos, and will keep the spreadsheet updated, and you tell me what you believe after a few months. If you want to believe that they have ALL the autos and are randomly inserting them ALL, that is your perrogative. People can think I am crazy, but I tell you that it's enough for me to make quit this hobby...when there is dishonesty going on at the manufacturing level of the hobby. At least that should make SCHR1st happy. >>
But isn't is possible that some people are pulling and keeping the "good" autos? That would explain why they aren't on eBay. If I pulled something I wanted, I would keep it. If I pulled something I didn't like, I would put it on ebay.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The product had been out for 6 days. How quick do you expect to see autos with a print run of less than 100 and 50 to get pulled and then listed on Ebay?
I think you're jumping the gun a bit on the conspiracy theory
I've cracked 6 boxes from 3 different locations and pulled a less than 50 SR (Griffey), a less than 100 SP (McCovey) and another SR not on the SP list (Gary Hall Jr.)
none of the 3 I pulled are being sold so I guess they don't exist. >>
I hear what you are saying, but I watched 2007 goudey for several months. Of course you will only see a percentage of cards show up on ebay, but you would see a percentage across the board, not spurts of some and none of others, especially over a course of time. Look at the numbers over time, and you will see that all of the cards are not available. Some will be made available later, again in "spurts", not random. There is no way to explain the disbursement unless they don't have all of the autos already. Call UD support and ask them what they have to say. They didn't admit it at first about no 2007 Goudey Maddux for example...only months through the product would they even admit it to me...and now it is common knowledge.
Just follow the numbers and make your own conclusions. I am only following SR autos, and will keep the spreadsheet updated, and you tell me what you believe after a few months. If you want to believe that they have ALL the autos and are randomly inserting them ALL, that is your perrogative. People can think I am crazy, but I tell you that it's enough for me to make quit this hobby...when there is dishonesty going on at the manufacturing level of the hobby. At least that should make SCHR1st happy. >>
But isn't is possible that some people are pulling and keeping the "good" autos? That would explain why they aren't on eBay. If I pulled something I wanted, I would keep it. If I pulled something I didn't like, I would put it on ebay. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting to see that your anger can be purchased for such small treasure.
>>
Anger is something that should be easily overcome.
For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning. >>
<< <i>
But isn't is possible that some people are pulling and keeping the "good" autos? That would explain why they aren't on eBay. If I pulled something I wanted, I would keep it. If I pulled something I didn't like, I would put it on ebay. >>
2007 Goudey Carpenter...explain it.
Look at the spreadsheet, there are tons of names that hardly anyone will want....I promise, many of those names won't show up or will show up 20 at a time in a month or two....That is what happenned last year. Just watch...I know it 's too soon to speculate, but just watch.
<< <i>Considering that you started this thread about the same subject you were upset about (then paid off about) last year, I'd say that you haven't overcome anything.
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting to see that your anger can be purchased for such small treasure.
>>
Anger is something that should be easily overcome.
For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning. >>
>>
The fact that I decided to buy the product again, does show I got over it...even where I am willing to try again. But this will be the last time.
I won't try to put any other sets together again. I may be upset, and may decide once and for all to get out of this hobby (that should make you happy), but
I won't be angry. I will look at it as a new opportunity....
EDIT TO ADD, maybe I will try a TOPPS set in the future, but if this 2008 GOUDEY repeats what 2007 GOUDEY did, I will never try to put together a high end UD set again...that I can guarantee.
<< <i>
<< <i>
But isn't is possible that some people are pulling and keeping the "good" autos? That would explain why they aren't on eBay. If I pulled something I wanted, I would keep it. If I pulled something I didn't like, I would put it on ebay. >>
2007 Goudey Carpenter...explain it.
Look at the spreadsheet, there are tons of names that hardly anyone will want....I promise, many of those names won't show up or will show up 20 at a time in a month or two....That is what happenned last year. Just watch...I know it 's too soon to speculate, but just watch. >>
Also, using your logic, you should still see at least 1 or 2 show up of the "fan favorites" not ZERO, and then all of a sudden 20 show up, right?
<< <i>You better get the feds involved. This conspiracy could go as deep as Capitol Hill. >>
It always starts with a whisper...
The feds showed up at the national, and I am sure it started somewhere....
probably started with one person comlplaining where the majority mocked him, and then someone else noticed, and then...
<< <i>
<< <i>You better get the feds involved. This conspiracy could go as deep as Capitol Hill. >>
It always starts with a whisper...
The feds showed up at the national, and I am sure it started somewhere....
probably started with one person comlplaining where the majority mocked him, and then someone else noticed, and then... >>
I would be happy if there was one UD employee that visits this board, and notice gets back to UD management, and they have an internal investigation and "fix" the problem.
Maybe they have an answer why they advertise SR AUTOS in their checklists, that don't exist.
You have to believe UD will see this thread, right? If everything i say is bogus, let them answer....I would love nothing more than to have an UD representative reply. I have about 100 emails that we could discuss in open forum.
UD is basically in the business of "printing money", and there should be a neutral third party that verifies they have what they sell. So many on this board will suggest the manufacturers aren't putting authentic patches in their GU cards, but yet will probably be the first to suggest that my idea that they are advertising autos that they don't have is a "conspiracy theory". What's the difference?
Is 2007 GOUDEY SR AUTO MADDUX still on their checklist? I don't know, but I can tell you it doesn't exist. If they can do that, with even ONE card, what would prevent them from doing it on others?
No one holds them accountable for what they advertise.
<< <i>
You are an idiot, and should go work for UD.
I like the product.
I don't bust wax.
I am looking at sure numbers of what is being sold and the odds extremely suggest foul play by UD.
I didn't ask for any moron advice.
>>
Sunday August 03, 2008 1:01 PM:
<< <i>
The fact that I decided to buy the product again, does show I got over it...even where I am willing to try again. But this will be the last time.
I won't try to put any other sets together again. I may be upset, and may decide once and for all to get out of this hobby (that should make you happy), but
I won't be angry. I will look at it as a new opportunity....
>>
Sunday August 03, 2008 1:42 PM (NEW!)
<< <i>
It always starts with a whisper...
The feds showed up at the national, and I am sure it started somewhere....
probably started with one person comlplaining where the majority mocked him, and then someone else noticed, and then...
>>
So now you're not only the Jackie Robinson of the boards but Woodward and Bernstein too?
Sweet!
Snorto~
<< <i>I don't bust wax - I buy singles on ebay.... >>
Ah, ok, the way you worded it using "product" left me a bit confused.
It is a pretty sweet looking set. I am curious as if you would be chasing the autos if they were numbered higher though, say 1000 of each?
Snorto~
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't bust wax - I buy singles on ebay.... >>
Ah, ok, the way you worded it using "product" left me a bit confused.
It is a pretty sweet looking set. I am curious as if you would be chasing the autos if they were numbered higher though, say 1000 of each?
Snorto~ >>
Yes, it's an amazing set. I thought 2007 was nice, and it left me quite discouraged as I dumped them. I like this set even more.
Yes, I would still collect them if there were 1000 of each. I am collecting all of the $10-$20 cards that probably a couple hundred exist.
If it were just base and no autos, I wouldn't collect it. TO me, it is the auto that makes it worthwhile...otherwise anyone could print anything...I might
as well buy monopoly money. I am just afraid I am going to be discouraged once again with the hobby and this set...and besides all of the gumbys
of the world, this may be enough to push me out of the hobby if I am unable to make an honest stab at trying to piece the set together out the gate.
<< <i>Yes, it's an amazing set. I thought 2007 was nice, and it left me quite discouraged as I dumped them. I like this set even more.
Yes, I would still collect them if there were 1000 of each. I am collecting all of the $10-$20 cards that probably a couple hundred exist.
If it were just base and no autos, I wouldn't collect it. TO me, it is the auto that makes it worthwhile...otherwise anyone could print anything...I might
as well buy monopoly money. I am just afraid I am going to be discouraged once again with the hobby and this set...and besides all of the gumbys
of the world, this may be enough to push me out of the hobby if I am unable to make an honest stab at trying to piece the set together out the gate. >>
Hey Captain Conspiracy Theory, did you read the bottom left corner of every page of the checklist you linked here? I wouldn't bet my life, like you did earlier on a sportscard theory (as I roll my eyes), but I would imagine that the same footnote was on the Goudey checklist last year. This problem is inherant with on-card autos. If a player doesn't fulfill their commitment to sign cards at a particular time - or at all - they can't put them in the set.
Oh yeah, if you're going to mention me in your posts, try to make sense.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, it's an amazing set. I thought 2007 was nice, and it left me quite discouraged as I dumped them. I like this set even more.
Yes, I would still collect them if there were 1000 of each. I am collecting all of the $10-$20 cards that probably a couple hundred exist.
If it were just base and no autos, I wouldn't collect it. TO me, it is the auto that makes it worthwhile...otherwise anyone could print anything...I might
as well buy monopoly money. I am just afraid I am going to be discouraged once again with the hobby and this set...and besides all of the gumbys
of the world, this may be enough to push me out of the hobby if I am unable to make an honest stab at trying to piece the set together out the gate. >>
Hey Captain Conspiracy Theory, did you read the bottom left corner of every page of the checklist you linked here? I wouldn't bet my life, like you did earlier on a sportscard theory (as I roll my eyes), but I would imagine that the same footnote was on the Goudey checklist last year. This problem is inherant with on-card autos. If a player doesn't fulfill their commitment to sign cards at a particular time - or at all - they can't put them in the set.
Oh yeah, if you're going to mention me in your posts, try to make sense. >>
No, it wasn't in there last year, and they probably included it this year BECAUSE of me stirring things up for them last year. Sometimes people should speak up, even in fear of being mocked.
Don't you also think it would be in their best interest to keep the hobbyists informed of WHO IS not on their list at time of release? They probably released the set with only 50% of the autos. Maybe it would make more sense that they don't release the set until they have most of the autos, instead of trying to rush it to the table to compete with A&G. It's poor marketing. Why don't they use redemptions for those that haven't signed. They did that with DICE-K. It's still foul play in my book. You can stand up for UD and their methods, but i call it CRAP.
Hobbyists that are buying these sets are expecting to have at least a 1 in 10000 chance of pulling a card that doesn't even exist.
The Hobbyists should be able to sue UD for false advertising and in turn UD can sue the athletes if they did not honor their commitment.
The bottom line is the hobbyists are getting the short end of the stick.
EDIT TO ADD - I would love to hear from any Lawyers in the house? Just because someone puts in a disclaimer doesn't make it legal, that I know for a fact.
To that point, a quick trip to blowoutcards.com to look at a price on buying a case of these produced the most recent list of Sports Royalty autographs.
So, considering that took me about 2 minutes, I guess it's obvious that you haven't done your homework.
Many times a disclaimer means nothing but in this case it is pretty air tight especially since you have not even bought a pack. Usually a disclaimer only means nothing when it involves injury or damage to property.
<< <i>What is that spreadsheet supposed to be? A complete list of SR autos, or list of SR autos pulled by customers or what? >>
I've given you the cliff notes...now go to blowoutcards.com and look for yourself.
<< <i>There are only 53 on that spreadsheet whereas UD's published checklist there are 100... >>
UD's sell sheet has been out for months. Things change. The spreadsheet on blowout's website says version 15, so I'm sure there have been many changes...and I would assume that the list came from UD.
Crisis averted!!
Edited to add...maybe you can file a frivolous lawsuit against blowout for not emailing you personally when they got the updated list.
Ok, UD has updated their website and show even an adjustment to the xls on blowout's site....they now show only 43 of the initial 100 as being in the set.
I give them credit...they didn't do that last year, so I have gained some respect back for them.
I still say they need work in their advertising though. They should update their initial checklist and make it clear when they advertise a
player is in a set....whatever.
Last year they (UD) didn't keep their checklist updated, and even when you called their customer service, you would get a different answer every time you called. It seems they didn't even know themselves what they had. They would quote print runs, and then it proved to be inaccurate.
Anyway, thanks gumby for some enlightenment...i would have never guessed I could have said that (LOL)...
you're running behind
It still sucks that they advertise a set initially suggesting they will have certain players, and "supposedly" get the commitments so they can advertise big names, and then the set is missing half the big names, making the set a lot less desirable than originally advertised....
Whatever...the 2008 goudey sr autos are a nice set, but not nearly as nice as initially advertised....missing some big names that I thought would be in the set.
Lastly, what does UD do about the players that committed, but never signed...just shrug their shoulders at the hobbyists?
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>im not gonna lie, it seems like Hof has a point here if his spreadsheet is correct. Lawsuit seems a bit far, but something isnt right. >>
I got it figured out (thanks to gumby)....
UD advertises players who commit to sign, and then when they don't, they shrug their shoulders and adjust their checklist.
At least this year they are being upfront about it...last year they didn't.
Still seems odd that out of the initial 100 advertised players on the checklist only 43 will make the set. That's a whole lot of lying players that falsely committed.
SO I guess we get extras of some of the olympians, and everyone is ok with that.