Cracked out coin bad results

veryfine · July 28, 2008 1:51AM

I had an ANACS encapsulated (in new holder) 1907 Indian $10 graded AU-58. I cracked it out, sent to PCGS and it was graded "Altered Surfaces." Apparently ANACS had no problem with the coin, but PCGS did.
Cracking out slabs is not something I'm in the habit of doing, but I thought I'd give it a try for this one. I wanted it in a PCGS slab for my type set; a silly reason for a crack-out, but what's done is done. Needless to say, I'm depressed about this.
I don't have an image yet, and I'm not sure I even want to show it.

I've made some smart choices with regard to coin collecting. This was not one of them.

Placid · July 28, 2008 1:55AM

charley · July 28, 2008 1:58AM

There is nothing wrong or silly with your choice and quite possibly nothing wrong with your opinion or the opinion of ANACS. I would not consider depression is a proper emotion for your choice at this time. Respectfully, John Curlis

abitofthisabitofthat · July 28, 2008 1:59AM

Don't be hard on yourself. This type of thing happens to everyone who cracks coins on occasion. Sometimes a coin cracked out of a PCGS holder will get BB'd upon resubmission.

I would sell the coin ASAP if I were you. You want coins in your collection that are a joy to look at - not coins with emotional baggage. Just sell it and move on. Lesson learned.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 28, 2008 2:01AM

It will fit in my Dansco 7070, now

.
PM me for details on how you can get rid of your depression

SilverBaron · July 28, 2008 2:01AM

Along the same lines... got a buddy that broke out 5 different type coin from ANACS....

........AND.....

7 PCGS [old holder] classic commems........

........All sent in to PCGS..........

All 5 ANACS type came back BB for various reasons.......

The 7 commems .... 4 DOWN graded 1 point..... 1 DOWN graded 2 points and 1 Altered Surfaces.

The ANACS maybe.... but the ORIGINAL PCGS's ??? .......

A real confidence builder.......

Cladiator · July 28, 2008 2:03AM

Send it in again, you'll likely get a different result. Send it in 4 times and you can almost garauntee it'll make it into a slab sooner or later. TPG's are great aren't they?

greghansen · July 28, 2008 2:03AM

I would sell the coin ASAP if I were you. You want coins in your collection that are a joy to look at - not coins with emotional baggage. Just sell it and move on. Lesson learned.

I tend to agree. Sell it, take your beating, then buy your type coin in a PCGS slab.

There are two kind of submitters. Those who have had this sort of stuff happen to them. And those who will.

DennisH · July 28, 2008 2:03AM

Just because they bagged it once doesn't mean they'll do it again.

I've had numerous instances where coins that were bagged on the first try (especially for altered surfaces) came back in holders the second try, and that includes a few that went up in grade from their previous holders.

Coll3ctor · July 28, 2008 2:03AM

If life was all good it wouldn't be any fun

ProofCollection · July 28, 2008 2:04AM

That's why PCGS coins generally carry a premium to ANACS coins.

PerryHall · July 28, 2008 2:07AM

Sell it and move on but don't be surprised if you see it again some day in a PCGS slab.

speety · July 28, 2008 2:08AM

If the grade don't fit, you must resubmit!

Don't worry, i've gotten my fair share of BB's...

fc · July 28, 2008 2:16AM

typical results from the tpgs. their opinion is never static nor consistent.
it is just a guess at the grade and condition. just like a guess here but
the people at tpgs are worshipped like gods and heroes so people pay
them for the service.

odd.

i just know they have never gotten a penny out of me and probably never
will. homie does not play that game.

19Lyds · July 28, 2008 2:20AM

This story has been told on these forums hundreds of times so .........welcome to the club!

Don't get depressed, if you truely believe the coin was misgraded, just resubmit it.

If you are a PCGS club member, any coin with LIBERTY on it qualifies as this quarters freebie. Take advantage of it!

Connecticoin · July 28, 2008 2:36AM

I feel your pain. I cracked a $20 Lib out of a PCGS OGH that got bagged for "questionable color"

I naively thought there was NO chance for a bodybag, so instead of sending it by itself for re-grade service, I submitted it along with some other raw coins. Bad move!

I have found ANACS to be a little more tolerant of hairlines than PCGS.

If the coin was likely bagged due to hairlines, you might want to get it back into an ANACS holder and then sell it.

That being said, if you feel strongly the coin should not have been bagged, then try the PCGS "freebie" (you still need to pay for return shipping).

ricko · July 28, 2008 2:46AM

Slabulosis = when the slab is more important than the coin. Cheers, RickO

MrHalfDime · July 28, 2008 3:00AM

I would submit that, despite your apparent depression, the coin today is exactly the same coin it was before you cracked it out. I find it interesting that, when reading stories like this, the OP loved the coin until some TPG decided not to give it their blessing. That is just one opinion, a very subjective evaluation, which may or may not be true ("altered surfaces"). As others have suggested, if housing your coins in plastic is all that important to you, then simply resubmit the coin and see how it comes back next time. Or, you can keep the coin and place it in a Dansco 7070 for your type set.

PerryHall · July 28, 2008 3:04AM

Can we get a detailed pic of this coin? I'm curious what it looks like.

jmj3esq · July 28, 2008 3:05AM

I once cracked an ANACS MS62 Isabella commemorative and sent it to PCGS. It came back "Cleaned." I too was very upset considerign this was abpout a $600 coin. I sent it immediately back to ANACS and they graded it MS62 once again. I quickly sold the coin four exactly what I bought it for. I would send it back to ANACS and see what happens. Good luck.

On another note, I have cracked out countless ANACS slabs and this is the only time i ever had a problem. I have had mucj success cracking ANACS slabs and crossing at the same grade and even getting some bumps. Dont let this one mistake get you down. Try it again.

BlindedByEgo · July 28, 2008 3:13AM

I believe that TPG's (including PCGS) are the ice skating or gymnastics of the coin world: judging is subjective; inconsistancy is the rule, rather than the exception.

NHSBaseball · July 28, 2008 3:23AM

I feel your pain- I got brutalized cracking half dimes out of NGC and ANACS slabs and submitting them- NGC-58 to a 50, NGC 58 bodybagged for "cleaning", NGC 58 to a 55, and ANACS AU-53 to XF-45.

That being said, MrHalfDime is right- they are still the same coins and I still like them as core pieces of my collection. I will resubmit the one that got bagged and hope for better results. If it bags again, I will keep it raw or send it to DGS or ANACS.

The next group I sent in, however, was for crossover. I am going to pretty much leave the crack-out game to the experts.

Sorry for your results- I too say resubmit.

PTVETTER · July 28, 2008 3:50AM

If you send it in enough times you will likely get a MS61 one time

YaHa · July 28, 2008 3:59AM

<< It will fit in my Dansco 7070, now

.
PM me for details on how you can get rid of your depression >>

You are a sick puppy J, a sick puppy.

WoodenJefferson · July 28, 2008 4:00AM

<< Send it in again, you'll likely get a different result. Send it in 4 times and you can almost garauntee it'll make it into a slab sooner or later. TPG's are great aren't they?

>>

veryfine · July 28, 2008 5:30AM

Thanks everyone.
Despite the discouraging news, I feel better knowing that I am not alone. I'll try to post some images as soon as possible.

Wolf359 · July 28, 2008 5:39AM

Part of what you can experience with crack outs. If it looks ok to you, take another shot at it. I have had several that PCGS bagged for altered surfaces that later holdered. I've had others that
will never holder, because PCGS was correct.

tahoe98 · July 28, 2008 6:33AM

<< typical results from the tpgs. their opinion is never static nor consistent.
it is just a guess at the grade and condition. just like a guess here but
the people at tpgs are worshipped like gods and heroes so people pay
them for the service.

odd.

i just know they have never gotten a penny out of me and probably never
will. homie does not play that game. >>

............................

tahoe98 · July 28, 2008 6:36AM

<< If you send it in enough times you will likely get a MS61 one time >>

yeah, but how many times over did he buy it?

veryfine · July 28, 2008 7:04AM

If I were to sell this coin, should I sell with the cracked ANACS slab, and in addition, mention that it was also sent to PCGS and bodybagged?

nicetoning42107 · July 28, 2008 7:22AM

<< If I were to sell this coin, should I sell with the cracked ANACS slab, and in addition, mention that it was also sent to PCGS and bodybagged? >>

Yes.

And you are far from alone on this. Pretty much every submitter of classic coins to the TPGs has these kinds of shanagans happen to them.

veryfine · August 5, 2008 7:42AM

I finally took a picture of the coin in question. Recapping the story; this coin resided in a new ANACS holder, grading AU-58, no problems. I cracked it out, sent it to PCGS and it came back to me with the dreaded "altered surfaces." I am a combination of confused, angry and sad. I’m not sure it's worth the effort and money to resubmit a coin like this. Several of you do.
Right now I'm scratching my head.

Please excuse the unprofessional quality of the image. Gold is harder to photograph than I thought.

zeebob · August 5, 2008 7:48AM

Nice looking coin. Put it on BST.

fandang0 · August 5, 2008 7:53AM

<< Sell it and move on but don't be surprised if you see it again some day in a PCGS slab. >>

DoubleEagle59 · August 5, 2008 8:03AM

I obviously have not seen this coin, but I am tired of all the 'borderline' bodybagged coins being returned to submitters.

I think if a coin is going to be bodybagged, it better be darn clear to ALL of us, that it has been altered.

golfer72 · August 5, 2008 8:08AM

Its still the same coin right? Why are you depressed?

adamlaneus · August 5, 2008 8:13AM

My guess. It got wiped hard and PCGS sees parallel hairlines.

It's a nice coin. I'm saddened that folks can think so little of a nice gold coin because of Plastic Problems.

But then again, I buy that junk that folks tell you to stay away from!

Doogy · August 5, 2008 8:14AM

<< Slabulosis = when the slab is more important than the coin. Cheers, RickO >>

ain't that the truth.

Doogy · August 5, 2008 8:16AM

this thread reminds me of that thread from a couple years ago.

A respected forum member cracked out a PCGS Morgan, that was MS66 DMPL if i recall.

He cracked and submitted it 6 times within a few months back to PCGS. It was graded FIVE different ways; from MS64, 65 and 66. and PL and DMPL randomly sprinkled in among the three grades. sad really

57loaded · August 5, 2008 8:20AM

<< Thanks everyone.
Despite the discouraging news, I feel better knowing that I am not alone. I'll try to post some images as soon as possible. >>

sorry about the bb but if you sent the coin in slabbed in an ANACS holder would have the same reults of a BB?

golfer72 · August 5, 2008 8:22AM

Why not just send them 4X the slabbing fee and just tell them to slab it since they will eventually anyway and it will save you postage.

veryfine · August 5, 2008 8:25AM

<< 

<< Thanks everyone.
Despite the discouraging news, I feel better knowing that I am not alone. I'll try to post some images as soon as possible. >>

sorry about the bb but if you sent the coin in slabbed in an ANACS holder would have the same reults of a BB? >>

I wonder about that too.

veryfine · August 5, 2008 8:28AM

coolest · August 5, 2008 8:29AM

If you give the coin a harsh cleaning it will be more likely to be graded uncirculated by PCGS. I don't understand it. If I sent a silver or copper coin it would be bagged but they love to slab cleaned gold (not my gold, always someone else's).

BECOKA · August 5, 2008 8:33AM

I too had a gold coin in an ANACS slab, sent it in and it came back for altered surfaces.

I then sent it to David Lawrence to sell. They also mentioned the altered surfaces so I don't doubt PCGS at this point. It does make me doubt ANACS, at least the old ANACS before they became the new ANACS with the old ICG employees who maybe used to work for..

forget it.

I just trust PCGS a lot more these days.

AU58WALKERS · August 5, 2008 8:37AM

what does "altered surfaces" mean?

veryfine · August 5, 2008 8:40AM

Here's what baffles me:
I can understand different grading services disagreeing on grade point differences, such as MS 63 or 64. But how can a respected TPG like ANACS not notice "altered surfaces." ANACS is known for spotting problems.
I also wish I knew the specifics of "altered surfaces" in my case.
How, what, where?

mike92694 · August 5, 2008 9:21AM

<< Here's what baffles me:
I can understand different grading services disagreeing on grade point differences, such as MS 63 or 64. But how can a respected TPG like ANACS not notice "altered surfaces." ANACS is known for spotting problems.
I also wish I knew the specifics of "altered surfaces" in my case.
How, what, where? >>

Oh.

Don't be too concerned. Half of my NGC coppers on a crossover attempt have "Questionable Color"

veryfine · August 5, 2008 10:22AM

It would be educational to know what PCGS saw that ANACS didn't.
If I knew the exact nature of the altered surfaces, I could describe it in a seller description. Or, I can dip the coin in acetone, etc.
Or I can do nothing, keep the coin, and move on.

DoubleEagle59 · August 5, 2008 10:37AM

It would be educational to know what PCGS saw that ANACS didn't

The truth is - they don't really know.

They're just covering their behinds by saying it's 'questionable' and then they bodybag it.

Why do so many bodybags grade OK when you resubmit them?

Because they aren't really sure in the first place.

This is my whole point.

Only Bodybag it if it's 100% played with, or altered, or cleaned (you get the idea).

originalisbest · August 5, 2008 10:38AM

It might really have altered surfaces; and then again, it might not. Might be a flip of the coin/time of day thing.

Cracked out coin bad results

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